John ks

If it was mine i would remove the 3 capacitors on the motor, they are there for RFI suppression 

I've got a HST that would run erratically when i installed a Hornby TTS sound decoder Running on Digitrax 

When i removed the RFI capacitors it ran fine

On the mother board are 2 components which i am fairly sure are Inductors (marked J1 & J2) & would also be part of the RFI suppression & i suspect that capacitors C3 & C4 are also RFI suppression

If I had one of these locos then i could trace the motor circuit & would know if J1, J2, C3 & C4 were RFI components & could be removed

If J1 & J2 are inductors & were removed then they would have to be replaced with jumpers

John

2 hours ago, Ben Alder said:

the C C terminals are for a seperately developed hand held extra controller that does provide cab control and are not for any other purpose

After reading your post i have edited my previous post to reflect this new information

John 

Mine is still outstanding & i did bother Keith with 2 email 

I hope Keith wont mind me posting these replies

The first one I wanted to change my postal address & the reply included

"Unfortunately, the GT3's have been sent out now and we can't change the delivery address." Dated 22 March

The second email 

"There is a chance our fulfilment warehouse made an error and missed you off the delivery schedule. If that is the case, I can send you your GT3 from my residence once I get the excess stock. We are trying to sort out everyone's orders as quick and as efficient as possible, so please be patient with us, we are working hard to make everyone happy." Dated April 1

Hope this helps anyone still waiting for theirs

John

48 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Yes. but in this view the end of the carriage has a door, but doesn't have end windows.

That photo looks like the APT-E to me

John

After reading Ben Adler's future post in which he says " the C C terminals are for a seperately developed hand held extra controller that does provide cab control and are not for any other purpose."

I have changed this post to reflect this new (to me) information

I Have never seen one of these but looking at some images in google there is one image of the front panel with 2 transformers connected to it

This suggests to me that this twin controller could work with common rail return

Looking at the back terminals I think the + & - terminals are uncontrolled  controlled DC out 

The x & x terminals are AC out

& the C & C terminals are Controller out (I think, not commons)See Ben Adlers post 

If you have a multi-meter  check the output at all the terminals

The drawing shows what voltages i would expect to find at the terminals

The 12V DC terminals could show as high as 20V  but any voltage between 12V & 20V should be OK

The voltage on these terminals  (12V DC) should vary from 0V to 12V (with load) in line with the knob position

The nominal AC voltage is 16V AC but could range between 12 & 18V AC & be OK

If I am correct in assuming that the a,b & c,d (renamed from c for ease of ID) terminals are the controller outputs

If all of the above is correct then connecting b & d together & to the common rail should work

If I am correct in assuming that the C1 + , -  & C2 + , -  terminals are the controller outputs

And if all of the above is correct then connecting C1 - & C2 + together & to the common rail should work

Any where that the a train crosses from one controller to the other there should be an IRJ (shown as a gap in the image)

As i said earlier my knowledge of this controller is from an image on goggle & some guesswork so connecting this controller as common rail is done at your risk

John

Edited to reflect new information from Ben Adler's post (about 3 posts in the future)

40 minutes ago, Wagpnmaster said:

Swapping these around cured the problem.

2 things

first  you got it sorted

second Thanks for letting us know what the problem was.

its a bit disappointing when a thread ends with "sorted"(or just ends ) & with no explanation on how it was sorted

When i get an email showing mine is on the way & it arrives I will know to look out for this problem when i go to fit a decoder

John

4 hours ago, Wagpnmaster said:

there is now a high pitched screeching noise

It sounds like there may be an internal short in the loco/tender wiring possibly between the Motor (orange) to the RH rail pickup (red) or the motor (grey) to the  LH rail pickup (black) 

The blanking plug joins the Motor (orange) to the Rh rail pickup (red)

& the motor (grey) to the  LH rail pickup (black)

Test the resistance (with the blanking plug & decoder removed ) between the motor & rail connections. There should not be a low resistance on any of these tests (M+ to Rail+  & M- to Rail- you could also do M+ to Rail- & M- to Rail+)

My guess for the most likely places for this sort of short to happen would be the mother board in the tender or the connecting plug/socket between loco & tender

Do these tests from the tender

If the test fails with the loco, tender uncoupled then the short is in the tender

If the test passes with the loco, tender uncoupled  then the short is in the loco

I have had this problem with at least one loco where a badly installed pick up wire was touching a motor connection

The loco worked OK on DC but destroyed a decoder on DCC

If you don't feel comfortable doing these tests then it might be time to contact KR to make a warranty claim

John

13 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Don’t know what’s happening with the quotes in your post but the first quote was David, not me

Your correct, I think i took the quote from David's Quote in your post so it came out as your quote 

Sorry for any confusion

My answer was related to both quotes

John

2 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

Apologies if I've missed this, but do we know what the DCC options are?

2 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

but no details of through wiring vs separate decoders. 

Looking at the coupling on the power car I can see no electrical connection in that coupling

That would suggest that you would need 1 decoder for each DT & 1 for each powered power car

So a 2+1+2 would require 3 decoders & a 2+2+2 would require 4 decoders (If both power cars are powered)(adding extra Articulated coaches to make a 6+2+6 for example shouldn't require extra decoders)

This was brought up early in this chat but I don't recall an answer from Hornby

I have 2 original APT-P's one is a 2+1+2 & has 3 decoders & the other is a 2+2+5 & has 4 decoders

John

Maico

I would think the " One-piece Machined switch blades " explains it all

One piece, = the rail is one piece from the frog to end of the switch blade & like the bullhead points the switch rail flexes rather than having a pivot.

Machined switchblades,= the switch blades are machined to shape from solid rail rather than being flat metal that is stamped & folded to shape( like most existing Peco points)

Top marks to Peco for improving these points

Will this be the way that all Peco points will be improved in the future?

One problem i can see is with code100 & above rail is if it is flexible enough to be able to eliminate the pivot on the switch blade

John

4 hours ago, XChris said:

You would be looking at KMS Railtech/Accurascale's expression of interest to produce the 73/9's

XChris

Thanks for the info

I did know about the 73/9 & have shown an expression of interest

I didn't realise that the 73/9's were used on all 3 trains north of Glasgow 

I did a bit more research & found the Highlander split portions on RevolutioN's site

I have changed the image to reflect what i now believe to be correct

Looks like i need 3 Cl 73/9's

John

If i have done my research correctly then the lower half of the image shows the current contents of each pack & the formation of each of the 4 trains. 

Not sure if i got the correct 2 coaches from pack 2 in the Highlander formation

I had a quick look through the 27 pages & the only formation information I found was for the Lowlander & Highlander Trains which only shows the Class 92 & 16 coaches from London (top half of image, if I recall correctly the contents pack 2 was changed earlier to refelect the current formation of the Fort William train)

What i would like to know is what locos would be correct for each of the 3 trains north of Glasgow

John

Rob 

Should you have a resistor between the PB Sw & the bases of the solenoid transistors

John

Hi Rob

I am retired electrician who has dabbled in electronics from a hobby standpoint.

Looking at the modification to the circuit it looks like it may/could/should work but to be honest its getting a little above my pay grade

Build it on your bread board & test it to see if it works as designed ( tests could include short press, long press, double press of PB Sw)

Hope this helps 

John

I suspect that when you push the point control PB

One coil is energised & the point changes 

The PL13 switch changes

The relay changes which connects the other coil & the point changes back

This repeats until the CDU is discharged or you release the PB Sw

If this is the case then  give the PB Sw a quick tap. If this works it would tend to  confirm my suspicion

I am not sure how to fix it if this is the problem

I have added an image of your PDF so the next person doesn't have to download it

John

If the 2 reverse loops are connected as shown then the only problems I see is the crossing  which would have to be an insulfrog 

9 hours ago, RobinofLoxley said:

there are risks of shorts across the crossover tracks even if its isolated ('Insulfrog' type)

Depending on which way the 2 ARU's (auto reversing units) are, the phasing(DCC for polarity) of the rails can be as shown

In the top example a wheel can bridge between the red & black rails, causing a short (blue circle)

in the lower example a wheel can bridge between the red & black rails, causing a short ( green circle)

the easy fix is to paint the top of the rails(where the short occurs) with fingernail polish ( I use clear)The polish will need  to be renewed as it wears away.

9 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

but you would need to make the reversible (yellow) section as large as possible, so an entire train will fit in it.

As Pete said above or the train has to be limited to the length of the part of the loop between the insulated joiners

John

1 hour ago, Furness Wagon said:

when I used Ohms law my calcs came out at 40ohms

Working backwards 9V drop across 40 ohms  gives a current draw of 225mA

If you have 10 LEDs in parallel fed by the 40 ohm resistor then each LED will draw 22.5mA

22.5mA would seem ok for Each LED

Now a reasons why i think it is a bad idea to have all those LEDs in parallel

If the LEDs are not perfectly matched the one or more will draw more than 22.5mA

Assuming 22.5mA is the rating of the LEDs then the LEDs drawing more than 22.5mA may fail prematurely

When one fails then the current to the remaining LEDs will increase causing another one to fail & you could get a cascading effect taking out all the remaining LEDs

1 hour ago, ikcdab said:

I have found that LEDs are very tolerant! I use a 12v supply and 1000ohm resistor. But larger sizes are ok too. I would not go less than 1000ohm.

I tend to agree with ikcdab & the following is meant to complement  ikcdab's post

The current rating of a LED is given to get the maximum brightness from that LED 

If you drive a LED at its maximum rating then you get the shortest lifespan

Most times on a model railway you don't need the LED at maximum brightness

You might be surprised how bright a LED is with 1K resistor

If its too bright then larger value resistor can be used

 I have used 4K7 (or was it 47K,memory isn't the best ) resistors on a HST marker lights  & they were bright enough

With the price of resistors you can afford to have a selection on hand & use trial & error to get the resistor value that gives the best brightness for your needs.

Start with 1K or 10K to see which is best for each application

If you need bright LEDs then you will need to do some calculations to get the best value & I would tend to use one resistor per LED 

Hope this helps

John

If you like working with images then following pic should be self explanatory 

John

Paul

these few pics are the last of the ones i've got

Hope these help

John

Here is a couple from the ERM Oct 17

I have a couple more if you are interested

John

1 hour ago, gordon s said:

I think you may have some of the connections reversed in your diagram

Gordon you are correct, I have corrected the original post

Fortunately the ones i got wrong (black & grey) were already soldered to the board 

Thanks for pointing that out

John

18 hours ago, Pete 1 said:

 I’m guessing I just correspond the pin to the pad in terms of which pad to solder on to.

Yes

I've added some colours to the pads 

EDIT Gordon s pointed out the colours were wrong

I had the black & grey mixed. the revised pic shows the correct colours & the NRMA guide for reference

While the colours look to be reversed you have to remember that the NRMA is shown from the top of the plug & the circuit board  is shown from the underside

End EDIT

The wire(colour) soldered to the pad should correspond to the colour of the wire from the decoder

Regarding the 4 pin decoder I'm sorry but i cant help with that one

On the side with the red & black wires are 4 diodes that make up the bridge rectifier If you can work out which is the DC side of the rectifier then the positive goes to the blue wire 

That was what i was hoping to tell from the pictures but they aren't clear enough to tell

John

11 hours ago, Pete 1 said:

In terms of the mallard. The wires go from the decoder to an 8pin plug. Do they stay in the plug/decoder and i solder on to them? Or do I take them off the plug? Does that make sense? 

Under the small circuit board (remove 2 screws indicated by the grey arrows) there should pads that the 8 pin socket is soldered to

This would be the best place to solder the wires to the lights

The blue, white & yellow arrows point approximately to the location of the solder pads

If you are not sure then take a picture of the underside of the circuit board & I or someone else will show where to connect the wires

The advantage of connecting to the bottom of the circuit board  is if you need to replace the decoder then the replacement just plugs in 

12 hours ago, Pete 1 said:

Is there any chance of damaging anything with doing a trail and error method? 

Short answer Yes

Longer answer 

If you were to use a LED with series resistor (10K or more) then the likely hood of damage the decoder is less

With good closeups of both sides of the 4 pin decoder it might be possible to determine which pad is the blue wire

John

Here are some pics from the last day of the Electric Rail Museum that might be relevant to this topic & the last few posts 

Kit You may remember me, we had a chat next to The APT power car (probably the only Aussie there at the time)

Talking to Kit was the highlight  of that visit

John

This may not be what you are looking for

I am assuming that the 3 way switch is Top position for Siding, middle position is for  Passing Loop & bottom position is for Main Line

& the second switch (R3 & R4) sets the xover to straight or crossing over 

I have completely rewired it so that the relays only control the frogs

Power to the siding is controlled by point 2 

Power to the stub is controlled by point 3

Stub 2 is controlled by a switch as per your original plan

If you need the passing loop to be isolatable then an IRJ at the red star &  the optional feed to the passing loop needs a switch (blue star)

The mail line is always powered

John