John ks

RCBO's on this side of the other pond

I tend to agree with 34C 

If it trips with the pump plugged in & nothing else then the pump is the most likely problem

With nothing plugged into any of the outlets push the test button on the GFI, if it trips then it is probably ok

If it doesn't trip then i would replace the GFI

John

Another very unhappy customer

Got the email from rails 1/2hour ago,  Rails still shows the order as pending?

John

50 minutes ago, 43110andyb said:

Thanks John ks! Far better on a diagram!  I did also mean this feed on the point, after the frog there will be no feed into the next (hopefully it can be seen on the diagram).

If you mean the blue arrow it should get a feed from dropper 3 (black connection ( highlighted rail to show where that dropper feeds)) provided you are happy to rely on fishplates

insulated fishplates show in white

You could eliminate 2 points by running all 4 tracks to the turntable. provided the turntable is suitable

John

41 minutes ago, 43110andyb said:

Also I think there is a “positive” feed missing on the section between the points under the “negative” labelled 4. Also you will need one after the frog on the point fed by feed 7 “negative”

What 40110andyb said but in pictures See drawing  dropper 13 & 14

The black side of feed 4 is necessary, the red side is not necessary but as JimFin said 

17 hours ago, JimFin said:

Better with 4 than without. 

The above modified drawing shows the minimum number of droppers need to make the layout work

But as Gavin says

15 hours ago, Gavin Liddiard said:

The best practice is to fit droppers to each individual length of track so you don't have to rely on rail joiners for conductivity.

John

9 hours ago, Simon G said:

 Also in my spares box is a 50VA RS transformer with two 12V AC outputs

Should be OK provided you follow all safety requirements

John

Resetting the thermal overload. Pushing down on the copper contact near the top (marked FUSE) might reset it

Resistors R4 R5 R6 are missing , the pieces with the red arrows point to what is left of one of them & i have put the pieces back where I think they came from.

Resistors R4 R5 R6 were 3 resistors in parallel. By paralleling resistors you can get a low resistance that will handle more power than a single resistor 

Say you need a 0.33ohm 3watt resistor then three 1ohm 1 watt resistors will work

The transistors Q3 & Q4 (yellow circles) look like they are cooked

As i said previously Do the following at your own risk

reconnect the pot 

reset the overload

solder a piece of wire or a big blob of solder across R4 R5 or R6 (where the grey rectangle is)

You may also need to remove Q3 & Q4

connect AC to the input terminals & give it a go (measure the output voltage with a meter before you run a loco)

3 hours ago, bkk-bkk said:

Is it feasible to continue with the original plan and convert the faulty controller for DC battery operation?

I don't think the circuit in the controller will work with a DC supply 

3 hours ago, bkk-bkk said:

I have a car battery charger (Figure 2.7) which has a built-in controller. Could I use that to supply DC direct to the track or rolling road?

Maybe.

the output of the charger may only give 6V or 12V which will run your locos at 1/2 or full speed

John

Not sure what is available in the UK 

In Oz insulated roof panels are available & are quite often used to make patio roofs 

They consist of a 2 layers of steel or aluminium with a foam type insulation between them, bottom layer is usually flat & top layer is corrugated 

They are self supporting & can span several meters

Hope this is helpful

John

6 hours ago, melmerby said:

My very little knowledge of printers would reject that as the head position is read (i.e. zeroed) from a datum point each time it starts so the stepper circuitry knows how many steps to do

On an Epson R800 the steps are read from an optical strip stretched the width of the carriage, the head unit has an opto unit that counts as it is moved along the strip.

 

I would go for either a corrupted driver program or an actual fault in the printer circuitry.

Just had a look in my cannon printer & there is a strip similar to what you described So as I said

11 hours ago, John ks said:

I have a theory that could be completely wrong but

John

I have a theory that could be completely wrong but

As the print head moves from left to right it prints a band on pixels (my guess is at least 60 high)

On the return trip from right to left it prints the next band of pixels (pic might help to show my meaning)

the toothed belt that moves the print head back & forth goes around a couple of pulleys, if one of these pulleys  is used to sense the position of the head &

the belt has jumped a tooth then this could explain the printout 

John

If I am reading the outputs on the Hornby controller correctly then it has 2 outputs

1 0-12VDC to control trains 

2 16vAC for accessory's eg point motors 

If you are using Lights/ signals that need a DC input then you will need a rectifier between the accessory output & the device

Looking at the controller it shows a 16VAC input, this suggests that there is a separate Plug pack (wallwart, power supply etc, a rose by any other name------------ ) for the controller

If this is the case then why connect your CDU to the controller when it can be connected directly to the plug pack(the output of the plug pack should be 16VAC 

Some form of overload protection between the plugpack & first terminal strip would be advisable (1Amp fuse etc)

John

19 hours ago, delticman said:

David, re the resistor in line with the red LED, I intend using 12 volt bi-colour red/white LEDs as this is for a Class 121 where the marker lights and tail lights share the same lamp housing, so I wouldnt be able to add a resistor to just the red

If you alter Dagworth's circuit as below then The value of R2 will affect the brightness of the White LED & R3 will affect the red LED

John

21 hours ago, cliff park said:

Connect the battery to the terminals marked 'ac input', it doesn't matter which way round. You will have a very smooth output, no ac ripple, but it should work.

Cliff if I understand the circuit properly then connecting DC to the AC input wont work

For anybody interested this is the circuit (assuming I have made no mistakes) 

The power transistors symbols for Q1 & Q2 are not completely correct, suspect 1 is PNP & other is NPN, not sure of Emitter or collector of Q2

Transistors Q3 &Q4 are SMD,s &as such the best I can do is show a representation on them

John

If you are planning to use the pot as a speed controller then I don't think it will last very long

The pot is probably 5k or 10k & is unsuitable to directly power a loco

Looking at the circuit the thermal overload (see drawing) looks to be open

there are 3 resistors R4, R5, & R6 that seem to be missing. see drawing

These resistors are in series with the transistor output & may be part of an overcurrent protection 

This controller looks like it uses split dc power 

In forward the voltage goes from 0v to (+)12V & for reverse it goes from 0v to (-)12v

Do the following at your own risk

You could power up the controller with the overload reset & measure voltages

Brown to blue 12VAC (this could be 18V depending on your power supply)

Blue to red 12v dc positive

Blue to black 12v dc negative 

red to black 24v dc positive

if you get voltage reading similar the above then the power part of your controller should be OK & you can try the following remembering Do the following at your own risk

Solder a wire across R4 (or R5 or R6) reconnect the pot, make sure the overload is reset & power up

1 of 2 things may happen 

1 it will work

2 More of the magic smoke will escape & it wont work

John

Here's my 2 cents worth for the crankpins

Hopefully the drawing will explain better than words

First is a dome with a thin Hex section

Second is a dome with a Hex section

Third is similar to the second but the 6 flats for the Hex don't join but should provide enough flat for a spanner to grip

When stationary it should look fine

When moving the head of the crankpin will turn with the wheel but will it be all that noticeable?

John

To me it sounds like the point motors are on for too long

Solenoid motors should only be powered long enough for them to operate, maybe less than 1/2 sec

I had a look in the manual. Setting CV47 to 0 looks to be what is needed for twin coil point motors

 One test you may like to try is connect 2 LEDs to the outputs for one of the  point motors (I.E. disconnect the point motor & replace it with 2 LEDs(with resistors) or 12V lamps)

Operate the point & one LED should flash, Operate the point again and the other LED should flash

If the LEDs flash for more than 1/2 seconds or stay on then something needs sorting & that is something I don't think I can help you with

John

As far as I know most DCC sound locos will work & make sound when running on a DC track .Hornby TTS is an exception

.

the throttle has to be advanced to about 5V before the DCC decoder gets enough power to activate the sound & start moving

BLI (broadwaylimited models) had a sound system with diesel or steam sounds that worked in time with the speed of the loco

While the loco was moving switching the forward/reverse switch would sound the bell or horn

if I remember correctly switch the for/rev sw rapidly from for to rev (or Rev to For if you are going in reverse) & the bell would ring

switch the for/rev sw rapidly again & the bell would stop ringing

switch the for/rev sw to reverse & the horn would sound

switch the For/Rev sw back to forward & the horn stops

Oh have I got the horn & bell back to front. Not sure it matters but you get the idea

I seem to recall BLI also made a box with function buttons on it, this box went between the DC controller & the track

For best results when running DCC loco on DC the controller should have a smooth out put from 0V to 12V

Resistance (Triang/Hornby H&M etc) controllers work but only just sometimes

PWM controllers can scramble the CV settings in decoders

Hope this helps

John

Here is a slight modification to your second plan

By having a terminal strip between your track bus & your local sub busses a fault will be easier to locate 

If you have a short then disconnect a sub bus, if the short goes away then the short is in that sub bus

This needs all sub busses to be insulated from each other( a bit like DC blocks)

John

8 hours ago, Tomathee said:

One thing I haven't done that is on your diagram is the extra droppers, I have at the toe end but I didn't put one on the outer rails further along (didn't seem necessary on an un-broken rail, please correct me though), also do z1 and y1 on your diagram represent insulated joiners? If so then I should be fine on where the bus joins up to the rails.

Tom 

This drawing was originally made for  DCC so the extra droppers are not necessary

The z1,y1 are Insulated Rail Joiners

My railroad is DCC & I use a couple of Automotive bulbs for checking that there is power on the tracks & for frog polarity

With DC just turn the controller to full & you have 12V DC between the rails (don't forget to make sure there are no locos on the track)

The following shows 2 lamps connected from rail a - frog & rail b - frog 

Point to straight LH pic & point to curved RH pic

With the lamps connected as below if you change the point & the lamps change then the frog if being switched

If both lamps come on at half brilliance then you have a problem with the frog wiring

The point started life as a Peco Electrofrog but I needed to run a 3' gauge line through it, hence the extra frog, both frogs are electrically bonded but isolated from stock & running rails.If you look closely(in the RH pic) you may be able to see the 6 gaps surrounding the frogs

John

From your description & research on Gaugemasters web site

Your point should be wired something like this

Links x-y & x-z are cut & links "L" installed(ignore all other letters on the drawing, they were for a different post & it was to hard to remove them)

Does the relay click when you operate the point?  (may need to disconnect the point motor to hear the relay)

If no then the wiring to the relay needs looking at

If yes then are the connections for track power & frog may be wrong

I've shown the frog connected to connection  4 & the track connections on 5 & 6

Connecting the frog to 1 & the track to 2 & 3 is also OK

If the frog polarity is wrong then swap track wires to the relay connections 5 & 6

John

Have you considered using switches

See the following posts in Electrics(non=DCC), currently at the bottom of page 2

Test track wiring help

By Monkeyhead, March 3

As for plugs

Banana Plugs or 1/4" mono Jacks could be suitable 

John

Depending on where you place rail gaps in your points

1 Gaps beyond the frog, no extra IRJs (Insulated rail Joiner) required

2 Gaps before the frog with Stock & switch rails bonded, 1 IRJ required

3 No gaps, 1 IRJ required

4 Gaps before & After the frog with Stock & switch rails bonded. No extra IRJs required

1 & 4 Siding beyond point require a feed to the red rail

2 & 3 Siding beyond the point will have both rails the same polarity when the point is set for the main line (loco won't move until point is set to siding)

My preferred option is 4

John

With your defunct controller the symptoms seem to indicate a high resistance joint in the controller

Could be as simple as a dry solder joint or loose joint. Depending on your skill level you could try resoldering all solder joints in the controller

If you can open the controller try measuring the voltage (load & no load) in several places (eg after the rectifier) if the voltage drops significantly

then the fault is before that point

If it is (as you suspect) the rectifier then replacement rectifier are cheap & fairly easy to get (could be replaced with 2 diodes)

The rectifier may be made of 4 diodes, these could be replaced with any 1Amp 100V or greater diode eg 1N4004

If you decide to try to repair the controller then post a couple of pictures of the circuitry & someone here may be able to spot the fault or give some clues as to where to look

John

Don't like to be the bearer of bad news but the symptoms suggest a high resistance joint in the DC circuit or a faulty DC controller

If you measure the volts at the DC controller terminals & they go to zero with load then the problem is in the controlled 

If the volts stay constant at the DC controller & drop to zero at the track then the problem is in the wiring from the controller

John

On 26/06/2020 at 04:26, Jeff Smith said:

It would be interesting to learn how many BH users are operating then as Insulfrog?

A while ago when Peco bullhead was fairly new I built an extension with  about 12 points 

The frog wire was fed through the baseboard & left dangling. If that is what you mean as insulfrog then,

So far so good

John

4 hours ago, forest2807 said:

The part(s) that your pen is pointing at don’t seem to be what I initially thought they were, having compared your photos with mine. I’m not actually sure what they are.

If you mean the "parts" indicated by the arrows Then it looks like someone has done a bit of surgery on yours 

The bottom LH image shows Damo666's  part with a bit of digital butchery, now they seem to match

The next bit is a guess & could be completely wrong

With the surgery the done, the "part" can be installed with the springs installed as shown

Without the surgery the springs would need to be installed after the "part" is mated with the buffer beam

John