chris45lsw

The Ironclads originated on the L&SWR but most were built by the SR including 2 car sets 381-385 for through services to Lymington and Swanage as well as the West Country.  They were converted to Push-Pull sets by BR in 1949-1952.

If you're being pernickety M7s came in short and long frame versions and only long frame locos were converted for PP.  So far, at least, Dapol have only made short frame engines so strictly not suitable for PP duties!

Chris KT 

On 11/02/2023 at 19:05, Blandford1969 said:

Brian Macdermott in The Somerset and Dorset line records sets 421 and 348 being examples used in the 1950s

421 and 348 were L&SWR corridor sets.  They were the last such corridor 3-sets in service.

Chris KT

On 28/03/2023 at 18:49, Dunsignalling said:

Don't forget that the bogie centres on the Thanet stock were a foot greater than on the 59' Maunsell and Bulleid coaches, though!

Yes, paradoxically, while the 57ft 'Thanets' were 1ft (=4mm) shorter than the 58ft (over body corners) shorty Bulleids and Maunsells the bogie centres were 41ft (=164mm) while the longer coaches had 40ft centres (=160mm).

Chris KT

On 20/02/2023 at 14:29, checkrail said:

Not knowing very much about SR wagons I thought it might be instructive to compare the standard SR van, as produced some years ago by Bachmann, with the ex-SECR vehicle from which it was obviously derived. They're very similar, but with the SR van having a somewhat simpler door arrangement.  Also the SR van is longer.  Is this correct or was it just Bachmann stretching things (literally) to fit a standard underframe?  (Didn't they do something similar with their LMS cattle wagon?)  Anyway, two nice models.  The trade has provided quite an array of SR and constituent company models over the last couple of years or so.  Plenty of GWR stuff on the way too.  Guess it will be the turn of the LMS next?

 

John C.

 

 

The SECR vans were 17ft over headstocks with a 9ft 6in wheelbase.  The SR development was to the 1923 RCH length of 17ft 6in, at first 9ft wb, later 10ft.  The Bachman Sr van is the correct length.  Another difference is that the SECR van has a single end vent while the SR ones have two.

Chris KT

If you you let me know which particular restaurant car it is I'll send you the instructions plus the bogie instructions.  But I'd need your address as I can't scan at the moment and would have to snail mail.

Chris KT

3 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

In other news, I await Rapido's iron minks. The issues with their locos are one thing but there is no denying that their wagons are first class and to mere mortals such as I, beyond reproach. 

 

I'm looking to pick up a few examples of these, both for the SE&CR project and the snoozing 1923-'29 GWR Tanat Valleyesque endeavour. 

 

I hope to collect these chaps..........

 

 

Early. Pre-1904. 

25 inch lettering. 

16 inch lettering. 

 

 

All the above are suitable for a pre-grouping scenario with the later two being fine into the post-grouping '20s. So all boxes ticked. 

 

 

Possibly this one may find a home as well. Very early BR. 

 

 

 

Then we have the opens arriving not long after that.........not to mention the SE&CR 6 wheel brake vans.............hopefully. 

 

Rob

 

W69121 in the livery as portrayed by Rapido was photographed at Huntingdon North on 29/9/1951.

4 minutes ago, chris45lsw said:

I'm away so haven't got my books to hand to check but I think a few Maunsell brakes had BS gangways both ends but the majority, as you say, only had them at the brake end. 

 

Chris KT 

Incidentally the SR Gangwayed Bogie Luggage Vans ('GBL') had, at the time, new BS gangways as their second hand LSWR underframes came from non-gangwayed stock whose bodies were used to create suburban EMUs on new underframes.

Chris KT

On 26/01/2023 at 20:38, Dunsignalling said:

The adaptors used to couple British Standard gangways to the Pullman type attached to the BS ones. Many SR bogie luggage vans carried them almost permanently fitted to the old LSWR gangways they inherited along with their underframes because they mainly worked with Maunsell and Bulleid stock.

 

IIRC the Maunsell brakes for inter-region working only had BS Gangways on the van ends and the sets they enclosed were "normal" in all other respects.

 

John

I'm away so haven't got my books to hand to check but I think a few Maunsell brakes had BS gangways both ends but the majority, as you say, only had them at the brake end. 

Chris KT 

A minor and simple improvement, Tony, would be to add a third class number '3' to each passenger door of the brake thirds.

Chris KT  

On 16/01/2023 at 19:37, Tony Teague said:

 

 

I'll brace myself for a problem!

I tested 5 of my T9s a couple of days ago and 2 have succumbed, including 30119 which is the model Chris Leigh had to remedy.  I have 4 more somewhere which I need to find and check.  I also have a Schools, 925, which I think has gone the same way.  I gather this is model is notorious for Mazak rot.  I was astonished and shocked when I first learnt that this was a problem with some modern models.  As Mr Wolf says I had thought this was something confined to pre-War Dinky toys.

Chris KT

On 13/01/2023 at 13:21, robertcwp said:

No SR hauled passenger stock carried blue/grey but there were SR-designed carriages that carried the livery, such as TPO vans and some departmental stock and lots of EMUs with SR-design bodywork, mostly 2 and 4 EPB units.

 

Three Hawksworth SKs carried blue/grey. There are photos around of them - one in 'Profile of the Warships' shows all three.

Two Ambulance Cars, S7920 & 7923S, converted from SR Maunsell unclassed open brakes in 1959 carried blue and grey.

Chris KT

4 hours ago, MrWolf said:

 

Southern stuff confuses me, it all looks the same.... 😉

Besides I was trying to be supportive 😀

To say Southern stuff all looks the same is a bit rich coming from a GWR fan when the GWR perfected 'all looking the same' to a much greater degree than more than the other companies! :-) 

Chris KT

18 hours ago, Aire Head said:

 

Here is a bit of something to get you salivating 😉

As a fitted wagon surely this one should have been painted bauxite?   Seems to show there were exceptions to the normal 'rule'.

Chris KT

On 06/12/2022 at 20:24, MrWolf said:

 

Ouch! That's a bit of a step up from 247's whitemetal ones at £10 a pair! At least I know something is available even if it's a last resort.

I have 5 only pairs of Phoenix Dean 8ft 6in bogies available at £8 per pair.  They would normally be £8.50 but they lack pin point bearings which are usually included and which you would have to supply yourself.  They comprise an etched brass truck plus cast side frames, bolster and rubbing plate. 

ChrisKT (chriskthomas@waitrose.com)

On 16/11/2022 at 18:24, JSpencer said:

The one in the second photo.

 

The other, number 320 has been done by Hornby in SR days and is not part of a cross country set.

The first one is a LSWR corridor third, SR/BR 673 withdrawn in 1953 after which it became camping coach 39.

The third, 320, was built as a 48ft third but was lengthened to 58ft by the SR in 1935 and put on a Maunsell underframe, becoming a lavatory third.  As has been said done by Hornby.

The second one, 1520, was SR/BR 2975 and was one end of 3-LAV/cross-country set 146 though this one didn't last long under BR as it was withdrawn August 1948. 

A lavatory composite from a cross country set does survive, though in need of restoration, and that's 5065 on the K&ESR.  It was in set 134 withdrawn March 1953 after which 5065 became camping coach 31.

Chris KT

2 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Certainly looks like single-coach working was the norm. But what kind of coach?

 

 

 

 

 

But - as an exception to the rule - see the 4th pic down the page here:

https://oldprincetown.weebly.com/princetown-railway.html

Double-headed with five coaches - a holiday special perhaps?

 

The usual branch train seems to have been a Corridor Brake Composite and 4568 in this pic and one of the same engine on the 'Old Princeton' site is coupled to a 61ft  E159 1938 'Sunshine' BCK as modelled by Bachmann.  I imagine other diagrams could appear from time to time as well.  I think an additional coach might have been added on market days, probably an all third.

Chris KT

Per the RCTS at the Grouping (1923) 129 and 898 were allocated to Darlington North Road Works.

Chris KT

I suspect your 10 tonner is 9ft wheelbase and if already fitted (which I doubt) would be painted bauxite by BR but would not have 'XP' markings.  If unfitted it would either be unpainted except for the metalwork or painted grey above the solebars; black below.

That said I have a nice photo of a pair of unfitted GWR opens ex works at Swindon, possibly Diagram O11, very neatly painted grey - W1136 and W5022.

Incidentally from 1955, under the Modernisation Plan, BR fitted vacuum brakes to a lot of company wagons if they had steel underframes, were at least 10ft wheelbase and, I think, there was an age limit (1930 something?).

Chris KT

On 24/11/2022 at 08:50, NHY 581 said:

 

Morning Brian. 

 

I could be interested in a set. I'll have a look at what is involved. I know a conversion to either in GWR/ W.R days will require safety valve cover, new chimney and dome but I need to work out what else is involved..

 

This is 667 at an u/k location. There's various additional handrails and GWR lampirons etc but I think a reasonable likeness is achievable without major surgery. 

In fact, I think James Hilton has had a stab at one already. 

 

 

(If anyone is able to ID the photographer then I'm only too happy to credit accordingly) 

 

Rob. 

The East Kent Railway had one of these - their number 4.  It lasted long enough to be acquired by BR and was allocated No. 30948 although it was scrapped in 1949 without ever carrying it.

Chris KT

On 18/11/2022 at 12:47, Tim Dubya said:

 

It's a shame that these are unlikely to be published again and the price demanded for (I agree) Volume 2 is insane!  I have seen them on eBay for £1000!  I was fortunate to look up whilst walking past the Oxfam Bookshop in Bath and spotted that copy in the window for £35, it's almost perfect, with just a tad of fade to the spine.

 

I think all three volumes were published by different houses too?

Vol 1 1838 - 1900 was published by Wild Swan and encompasses the 48ft carriages rebuilt on 58ft frames by the SR, including 320 on the Bluebell and Hornby's offerings.

'In the 20th Century' was published by OPC which was why they didn't want to call it Vol 2!  This covers the 'cross country' sets, inter alia.

Vol 3 Non-Passenger Carriage Stock, and Volume 4 Goods, Departmental Stock and Miscellany were published by Kestrel.

Chris KT

20 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Absolute certainty is a 2406 and yes I believe it should have been W6715S.

I've never seen this photo so thanks.

Phil

20 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Absolute certainty is a 2406 and yes I believe it should have been W6715S.

I've never seen this photo so thanks.

Phil

Yes, Diagram 2406 No. 6715, which, as has been said, should have been W6715S!  The location is Bere Alston.  

Chris KT

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

They remained maroon as far as I know.

There were some Gresley Buffets transferred to the SR in the 60s to cover for the BR Mk1 catering cars being converted to run in the 4 REP sets once the Bournemouth electrification was completed.

The Cafeteria cars had been withdrawn a couple of years earlier.

Two of the Cafeteria Cars, S9211E & S9213E, which were converted from Sleepers (at Eastleigh by the way) remained on the SR.   Initially they were crimson & cream, later green.  They were withdrawn in Dec 1962.  The Gresley Buffets transferred to the SR in the run up to the Bournemouth electrification remained in maroon.

Chris KT

On 05/11/2022 at 22:53, Ian Hargrave said:

Regrettably your latter supposition would be confined to SR motive power rather than coaching stock in route familiaration terms. 

 

7 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

And to get the flavour of what these familiarisation workings were,refer to the work of Peter W. Gray. One example from July 1959 in ‘West Country Railways’ is of airsmoothed 34063 with WR Hawksworth leading on Dainton with a  Goodrington- Plymouth working ( reversal at NA.)  .It should perhaps be pointed out that these workings were introduced during the war as an emergency measure. 

True, Ian.  I was having a senior moment!   But it does remind me that I've seen a photo of a LSWR 3-LAV set behind a Prairie tank at Tavistock South (WR), presumably 'borrowed' by the WR.

Chris KT

On 03/11/2022 at 13:03, Ian Hargrave said:

My contribution to the “ evidence “ can be found on the Bachmann thread. FYI all I can verify is that they worked regularly on Salisbury-Exeter stoppers during the “era” of ANTB .Thus it maybe conceivable a set could have found its way through Brent at some time c 1946/7-1950.It’s that man Lockett again.But his “Southern Steam in the South and West.” on this occasion. 

I have seen a photo from April 1949 of an all stations (bar one) stopper from Plymouth to Salisbury using one of these sets, a journey of 6 hours if you did it from end to end!  And the SR CWN for Summer 1949 shows a few workings west of Exeter.  And it's conceivable that the SR would send one round the GWR coast road on one of their route familiarisation turns.

Chris KT

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

Not in the very early days of BR (crimson livery); suffixes came in with Mk.1 coaches, in order to avoid number duplication.

 

CJI.

BR Gill Sans numbering was applied from around April (?) 1949 either on the existing malachite or on a new coat of crimson.  Yes there was no suffix but the number was at the left hand end of the coach (as in Bachmann's new crimson and cream Bulleid set 847).  From early 1951 numbers were relocated to the right hand end of coaches and, a little later, I believe, suffixes were adopted.  So there was only a small window when a right hand number without a suffix was likely to be applied.  I've looked through my photos of LSWR coaches and have only found one such - S625, a TL - with right hand number but no suffix.  I've not found such a photo of a 3-LAV set.  Incidentally there is a well known photo of EFE's set 130 in crimson taken in 1953 which has suffixes.

Chris KT