Dunalastair

Nicely observed, @Orion, thankyou. That blowup of the aerial image provides clear evidence of the facade arch projecting above the roof, and I can now visualise how it might have been arranged. As to the lower image, I had looked at that photograph before without spotting that the windows and doorways were so different. I wonder why the facade was changed? One clue might be the 1858 town plan at https://maps.nls.uk/view/74415320 which indeed seems to show the three window embrasures. That also shows that there was almost no concourse, with the buffer stops very close to the screen. I did previously wonder if this might have been a draughting error related to the awkward sheet boundary location, but given the quality of OS work at that time that seems unlikely. I wonder now if the screen might have been rebuilt at the same time as a larger concourse was created? At this date, the link I posted earlier (https://maps.nls.uk/view/74415343) to the other side of the sheet boundary also shows shorter platforms, without the outer faces which made this a four platform station in later years. It may be that the platforms were extended (and multiplied) at the same time, as trains got longer and traffic increased when the Forfar direct line was built. Traffic was later transferred to the Tay Bridge station, through the tunnel when the bypass line was built, but being originally from Edinburgh rather than Dundee, I'm not sure what the sequence might have been. More worms! Identifying an earlier design for the screen is timely, as that may be the next component for a trial print. My current plan is for a much-simplified (as is my usual way) and small scale diorama framed and viewed from the inside of the station, which limits how much of the exterior I need to represent. I would, however, like to get the geometry something like correct.

The second one, yes, but not the first or third, thankyou. The third provides a clear and useful (if sad) view of what was evidently the final condition of the roof, judging by the lifted track. I wonder what happened to the clock when the building was demolished. The printer has just completed a trial for the screen, and resolved better than I was expecting. I will have to make up my mind about how to represent the rest of the building. I'm still not sure how a screen projecting above the roof would have worked - would there have been blanking behind the section above the roof? None of the front views seem to show the sky through the upper part of the screen. Such little mysteries add a touch of spice to an otherwise relatively straightforward project.

This was the render after further tweaks to the geometry (girders now much lower) and an indicative pair of angled roofs, but before the Facebook image put doubt in my mind ...

It certainly does appear lower, but just to add confusion, this less than clear image from Facebook seems to show the original screen between the wars (judging by the motor car) from an elevated perspective (probably the police / harbour office). Unlike most of the other images I have seen, to my eye the roof seems to be very little lower than the screen, and the roof appears curved rather than flat. https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=578252672198625&set=dundee-east-train-station So could the roof have been rebuilt more than once? Angled in the early days, curved between the wars, and possibly angled again in later years? That theory seems to fail the Occam's Razor test ...

Useful diagram, thankyou. The photograph in 'Last Trains' bears out this suggestion. I have been playing with the design' lowering the girders. Comparing with the photograph suggests that they should be lower still, but the general appearance is now a little closer.

Yes, that has been puzzling me, and I think that my 3D design is not altogether as it should be. Most photographs are 'head on' but this image (ironically from the marketing for Niall Ferguson's book, but credit to Dundee Library Local History Section) seems to confirm what you are pointing out. The right hand end (the East end) does not seem to have the same 'proud' profile as the left / West. I'm not altogether sure that the roof is all curved - in this view it could be angled (with the beams sitting on the curved roof truss) either in one plane or more, with a glass 'lantern' at the top, shown more clearly in the Moorfoot book interior view. That would suggest that the screen was for show, and the other end probably simpler. https://lightmoor.co.uk/books/the-dundee-arbroath-railway/L9177

Yes, I have, thankyou. There is a beautifully drawn 1:500 sheet dated 1858, which would be just after the station was opened. https://maps.nls.uk/view/74415343

I do have an interior image in The Last Trains (4) East Central Scotland (Moorfoot 1982). That looks from the West. There is another looking from the East, with the original screen so pre-war : https://www.derelictplaces.co.uk/threads/dundee-old-railway-line.6791/ The SCRAN (https://www.scran.ac.uk/) original is behind a paywall, and while there is a thumbnail of another image it did not look very different. A little more detail can be made out using a photo editor. I now notice that the doors and windows are square topped, not round.

Thankyou - yes, I looked at that, but the pricetag put me off. That, and the fact that I am trying to dispose of books, not buy more. The shelves and the floor joists are already groaning ... Still, good to know that is a good resource.

A little more detail has been added to the 3D model, and I have added a blocky representation of an early locomotive borrowed from an earlier still smaller scale 3D model (Scotland Street if I remember correctly). The next stage if this is going anywhere beyond the computer is probably a test print on the end screen, which is near the resolution limit. I will also try renaming the thread and seeing if that flushes out any more information on the prototype in its earlier days.

Do we know whether there was a matching screen at the other (East) end? All the images I have found taken from the East seem to be from the postwar period after the screens had been replaced. It would not affect the diorama, as I am only modelling the last few bays of the overall roof, and with a foreshortened concourse at that, but it would be good to be able to picture it in its original condition. I have currently modelled the track with the sleepers buried, as it might have been when opened in 1858. The Dundee & Arbroath was of course originally a broad gauge (5' 6") line but had been re-gauged when Dundee East was built.

That did not take long. Right in one. The postwar changes were not an improvement. https://www.dundeemaritime.co.uk/DockSt I have only found a couple of images so far showing the interior - possibly because it would have been dark for photography before faster films were available.

Having completed my Liverpool Overhead PIer Head station model, I have now been playing with a 3D design for another possible diorama, putatively at a scale of 1:200. This is based on a distinctive Scottish terminus which is sadly no longer with us. That end screen is distinctive - any suggestions of where the original might have been? I'm not sure if this will be printable, especially as my printer is currently having problems with larger components, but it might just work.

Copied across from the 'prototype question' thread, my 3D printed diorama of the iconic station once located by the famous Liver Birds back in the days when there were four rails on the LOR. The scale is 1:300, so this is a very small diorama, making the closeups especially cruel. The train represents one of the original (and pioneering) three-car wooden sided multiple units.

So, the remaining parts have now been fitted, and a little more finishing has been undertaken, though the filament printing quality at the scale of 1:300 limits the appearance. So here are five cruel closeups - this is a small model, even by diorama standards. So, thankyou for the advice on the four rails which appear in this model. I will also post this in the diorama thread, having usurped the 'questions' thread quite enough.

More like 'stillborn' rather than 'imaginary', but when the Callander & Oban was closed, I seem to remember that there was a proposal under the auspices of the SRPS to retain the Dunblane to Callander section as a heritage railway. Sadly, by the time we moved to the Royal Burgh, the railway was being demolished. This had a personal connection in that I travelled to school from Dunblane to Callander by school bus in the early seventies. Had the heritage railway succeeded, then my daily journey might have been by rail rather than road. The long walks to and from the stations compared to a nearby bus stop would not have been welcome in a cold, dark Perthshire winter, but my homework might have been more legible if done on a train than on a Lodekka. When the C&OR closed, then many of my schoolfriends had to stay in hostels during the week as the bus journey from places like Killin took too long for a daily journey. This was I think when SRPS had their base at Falkirk (well before Bo'ness) which might have relocated to the original DD&CR yard at Callander. I have never heard why the proposal foundered, though lack of finance seems a likely cause.

A fictionalised version of the Oban line rather than Kyle, but have you read Alan Warner's 'Deadman's Pedal'? It is a little while since I opened a copy of the novel, but I remember it evoking the days of the type twos in the Glens, even if the ending is rather melodramatic. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/jun/01/deadmans-edal-alan-warner-review

A couple of initial photographs of the main parts of the 3D print at 1mm to the foot of Pierhead Station on the LOR. Initial painting only, and the roof sections are simply placed, not glued as yet. Many of the features are at the printer resolution limit, and took some iterations to print properly - that also contributes to the 'wispiness' of the prints in places. Note the four rails - two for wheels and two just to conduct electricity. The next, and probably most challenging, assembly task will be to try putting the distinctive staircase sections together. This will never be a scale model, but it is proving to be an interesting project, if sometimes a little frustrating.

Wiki has an interesting take on the BR loco naming : "The names had to be euphonious (they had to have a pleasant sound). Also, their meaning had to be readily apparent to anyone interested, whether railwayman or member of the public. There had to be good publicity value in the names as well as providing good morale for the staff, and the collection of names for a class had to provide some form of class identity. Another rule was not to use names of people who were still alive at the time, and some on the committee had a strong dislike of names or associations with the military (largely because they were fed-up with the recently ended war). There was a preference for names of heroes and other well-known people. However, slavishly following a single theme to an absurd extent was discouraged" Wiki also illustrates the statue of the Lord Protector here in St Ives (Hunts), erected after the county town thought better of the idea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Oliver_Cromwell,_St_Ives St Ives station was indeed in GER country, but latterly joint with the GN. BR standards did appear, but I don't think services on the farmers' lines into the Fen would have justified a class 7. https://stives100yearsago.blogspot.com/2020/09/bringing-railway-to-st-ives.html Now we have the guided busway ...

I have played with several variants of these, but the gear connection to the axle tends to be the issue. Either bevel gears cost (significantly) more than the motor or drive shaft / gear hole diameters do not match. How are you arranging your drive train?

At the Royston show at the weekend, I was struck by the absence of pre-grouping models. On another thread, I have been describing my much simplified 3D print representations of the original WHR rolling stock - bogies and saloons. I also built a simple diorama depicting a compressed version of Banavie Pier station, where boat trains from Fort William met steamers on the Caledonian Canal from Inverness. This was the original terminus of the line past Inverlochy Castle before the Mallaig extension was built. The two views below show the diorama with a WH bogie / WH saloon in the platform. Extra luggage / goods capacity is provided by the four wheel full brake on the elevated siding. This has been an interesting build of a little-recorded prototype (by comparison with the rest of the WHR / Mallaig Extension), but now I face the perennial question of where to put the result.

Back in the smaller scale, the Banavie Pier simple diorama is pretty much as complete as it is going to be. The main omission is now probably suitably period 2mm scale period figures. Two views with a West Highland Bogie and a saloon brake composite on the 'boat train', and the four wheel brake as a luggage van on the upper siding. The paddle steamer now has lifebuoys on the rails, so the BofT might allow it to sail with passengers. All very crude compared to some of the fine NBR rolling stock shared by others on this thread, but I'd like to think that this might meet the remit of 'pre-grouping WHR' while bringing to life one of the more obscure branch terminals of the West Highlands. I will also post a similar account in the 'diorama' thread.

A very different approach, but high density foamboard might offer a lighter approach, though when edges are protected the advantage might diminish.

Must have been an interesting challenge getting them up there. My version of Pier Head station now has a LOR train. Even restricting my attention to the 40' / 32' / 40' sets, photographs seem to show many different variations of doors and windows for the motor cars, but at 1mm = 1 foot it is not likely to be visible.

Look good in the larger scale.