Dunalastair

Do we know whether there was a matching screen at the other (East) end? All the images I have found taken from the East seem to be from the postwar period after the screens had been replaced. It would not affect the diorama, as I am only modelling the last few bays of the overall roof, and with a foreshortened concourse at that, but it would be good to be able to picture it in its original condition. I have currently modelled the track with the sleepers buried, as it might have been when opened in 1858. The Dundee & Arbroath was of course originally a broad gauge (5' 6") line but had been re-gauged when Dundee East was built.

That did not take long. Right in one. The postwar changes were not an improvement. https://www.dundeemaritime.co.uk/DockSt I have only found a couple of images so far showing the interior - possibly because it would have been dark for photography before faster films were available.

Having completed my Liverpool Overhead PIer Head station model, I have now been playing with a 3D design for another possible diorama, putatively at a scale of 1:200. This is based on a distinctive Scottish terminus which is sadly no longer with us. That end screen is distinctive - any suggestions of where the original might have been? I'm not sure if this will be printable, especially as my printer is currently having problems with larger components, but it might just work.

Copied across from the 'prototype question' thread, my 3D printed diorama of the iconic station once located by the famous Liver Birds back in the days when there were four rails on the LOR. The scale is 1:300, so this is a very small diorama, making the closeups especially cruel. The train represents one of the original (and pioneering) three-car wooden sided multiple units.

So, the remaining parts have now been fitted, and a little more finishing has been undertaken, though the filament printing quality at the scale of 1:300 limits the appearance. So here are five cruel closeups - this is a small model, even by diorama standards. So, thankyou for the advice on the four rails which appear in this model. I will also post this in the diorama thread, having usurped the 'questions' thread quite enough.

More like 'stillborn' rather than 'imaginary', but when the Callander & Oban was closed, I seem to remember that there was a proposal under the auspices of the SRPS to retain the Dunblane to Callander section as a heritage railway. Sadly, by the time we moved to the Royal Burgh, the railway was being demolished. This had a personal connection in that I travelled to school from Dunblane to Callander by school bus in the early seventies. Had the heritage railway succeeded, then my daily journey might have been by rail rather than road. The long walks to and from the stations compared to a nearby bus stop would not have been welcome in a cold, dark Perthshire winter, but my homework might have been more legible if done on a train than on a Lodekka. When the C&OR closed, then many of my schoolfriends had to stay in hostels during the week as the bus journey from places like Killin took too long for a daily journey. This was I think when SRPS had their base at Falkirk (well before Bo'ness) which might have relocated to the original DD&CR yard at Callander. I have never heard why the proposal foundered, though lack of finance seems a likely cause.

A fictionalised version of the Oban line rather than Kyle, but have you read Alan Warner's 'Deadman's Pedal'? It is a little while since I opened a copy of the novel, but I remember it evoking the days of the type twos in the Glens, even if the ending is rather melodramatic. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/jun/01/deadmans-edal-alan-warner-review

A couple of initial photographs of the main parts of the 3D print at 1mm to the foot of Pierhead Station on the LOR. Initial painting only, and the roof sections are simply placed, not glued as yet. Many of the features are at the printer resolution limit, and took some iterations to print properly - that also contributes to the 'wispiness' of the prints in places. Note the four rails - two for wheels and two just to conduct electricity. The next, and probably most challenging, assembly task will be to try putting the distinctive staircase sections together. This will never be a scale model, but it is proving to be an interesting project, if sometimes a little frustrating.

Wiki has an interesting take on the BR loco naming : "The names had to be euphonious (they had to have a pleasant sound). Also, their meaning had to be readily apparent to anyone interested, whether railwayman or member of the public. There had to be good publicity value in the names as well as providing good morale for the staff, and the collection of names for a class had to provide some form of class identity. Another rule was not to use names of people who were still alive at the time, and some on the committee had a strong dislike of names or associations with the military (largely because they were fed-up with the recently ended war). There was a preference for names of heroes and other well-known people. However, slavishly following a single theme to an absurd extent was discouraged" Wiki also illustrates the statue of the Lord Protector here in St Ives (Hunts), erected after the county town thought better of the idea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Oliver_Cromwell,_St_Ives St Ives station was indeed in GER country, but latterly joint with the GN. BR standards did appear, but I don't think services on the farmers' lines into the Fen would have justified a class 7. https://stives100yearsago.blogspot.com/2020/09/bringing-railway-to-st-ives.html Now we have the guided busway ...

I have played with several variants of these, but the gear connection to the axle tends to be the issue. Either bevel gears cost (significantly) more than the motor or drive shaft / gear hole diameters do not match. How are you arranging your drive train?

At the Royston show at the weekend, I was struck by the absence of pre-grouping models. On another thread, I have been describing my much simplified 3D print representations of the original WHR rolling stock - bogies and saloons. I also built a simple diorama depicting a compressed version of Banavie Pier station, where boat trains from Fort William met steamers on the Caledonian Canal from Inverness. This was the original terminus of the line past Inverlochy Castle before the Mallaig extension was built. The two views below show the diorama with a WH bogie / WH saloon in the platform. Extra luggage / goods capacity is provided by the four wheel full brake on the elevated siding. This has been an interesting build of a little-recorded prototype (by comparison with the rest of the WHR / Mallaig Extension), but now I face the perennial question of where to put the result.

Back in the smaller scale, the Banavie Pier simple diorama is pretty much as complete as it is going to be. The main omission is now probably suitably period 2mm scale period figures. Two views with a West Highland Bogie and a saloon brake composite on the 'boat train', and the four wheel brake as a luggage van on the upper siding. The paddle steamer now has lifebuoys on the rails, so the BofT might allow it to sail with passengers. All very crude compared to some of the fine NBR rolling stock shared by others on this thread, but I'd like to think that this might meet the remit of 'pre-grouping WHR' while bringing to life one of the more obscure branch terminals of the West Highlands. I will also post a similar account in the 'diorama' thread.

A very different approach, but high density foamboard might offer a lighter approach, though when edges are protected the advantage might diminish.

Must have been an interesting challenge getting them up there. My version of Pier Head station now has a LOR train. Even restricting my attention to the 40' / 32' / 40' sets, photographs seem to show many different variations of doors and windows for the motor cars, but at 1mm = 1 foot it is not likely to be visible.

Look good in the larger scale.

So I did include the kiosks, and now also the four rail track sat on the corrugated steel surface which made LOR track so distinctive. Still no end screens on the canopies, but mostly there now. Adding in the other side of the tracks and thereby doubling the size of this essentially symmetric station has taken the 3D model to its limits and it is now slow to respond on my basic laptop. A rather more comprehensive 3D model, presumably on a rather more powerful computer, can be found at https://stevenpw.artstation.com/projects/JQZA0. That design was intended for a film rather than a model.

Canopy models tend to come in bays, which can encourage the placement of single bays, but I would have expected either no canopies or more canopies. I'm not familiar with the approach of 'canopies for first class', who in any case would seem likely to get wet walking to the down platform. Platform widths do seem to restrict your footbridge placement, but thinking how passengers might use the station should help. This might not be a specific prototype, but looking for some examples can help justify the approach you take, even if they would probably have wider platforms.

All useful background, thankyou. I should have remembered the original Euston suburban electrification, though clearly that is another complicated story. All rather different to today's 25kV or SR third rail. Countries which mandated a single electrification standard avoided some of these issues, but also much of the interest. LBSCR overhead perhaps? I have made a little more progress with the Pier Head design. I'm still dubious about how much of this might resolve at a small scale. NOw, do I represent the kiosks under the stair landings? That would probably make printing easier, but might belong to a different period to the four rail, which has also yet to be represented.

Useful information, thankyou. Not always obvious that a fourth rail is not used for pickup. And the changeover polarity change reminds me of the modelling a return loop - at least the prototype does not so often have that issue. I have been playing with ideas in 3D for a simplified version of LOR Pier Head station. Early days yet, but putting 3D shapes together does help show how the structure fits together - not always obvious under later accretions. I have since added more of the supporting pillars, having (I think) worked out how they were arranged before the scrap man got to them in the fifties. I'm still not sure whether to make this a simple 1mm = 1 foot diorama (most likely scenario, though some detail may not resolve) or a larger 2mm = 1 foot model (though still static). The trains might look better in the larger scale.

Well spotted, thankyou. I had missed that sequence. Here is a zoomed in screengrab, hopefully out of any copyright. I would imagine a scenario whereby the system initially had three rails (very Hornby Dublo), then ran with the central rail while the outer rail conductor rails were added and outer conductor shoes fitted to the motor cars, and a big changeover day / weekend / week when the connections were changed to track and shoes. When the central rail return was abandoned, then the central rails could have been. removed piecemeal during overnight occupations. Possibly a job for Lively Polly when not engaged in ice scraping. https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/98514-livley-polly-the-elusive-tank/ By the time the Ruston came along, the central rails would have long gone.

Thankyou. That pins it down nicely. Three-rail electrification has been and is familiar, but I cannot think of many other examples in the UK outside London of four-rail. I might try to represent that if the model ideas come to fruition, but at 1:148 it might not be very visible! Apparently the LYR electric units were originally four-rail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LYR_electric_units and https://lyrs.org.uk/electrification/ Photographs of four rail LOR trains still seem elusive, but four rails on the L&YR seems easier to find http://www.lyrs.org.uk/images/uploads/LYRS_1925_-_Liverpool-Southport_4-car_Electric_Train_near_Waterloo_-_leading_traction_car_No_3007.jpg also at The history of electric traction in Liverpool seems less than straightforward, with the Mersey Railway also being four rail to an American design. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mersey_Railway I must read more!

Thankyou. I have been watching (and enjoying) the various video compilations, but (not surprisingly) they generally seem to date from the later era with only outside conductor rails. Is there a shot of four rail buried in any of those? If so, then I have not been watching carefully enough. And I usually watch with the sound turned off, so if the commentary mentioned the change, then I would have missed that.

Standards are another matter, but thinking back to what I bought as a teenager in the (?late) seventies after selling my mix-and-match Tri-ang 00, the Farish pseudo 'Jazz' Enfield Town sets (GER/LNER 0-6-0T plus four wheelers) at least aimed at the intensive service operated by most modellers. And for those of us in Scotland, the Minitrix green Type 2 / maroon Mk1 combination ran very nicely in a West Highland setting, even if the '27' showed its German antecedents.

Most images of the LOR show either the original condition, with a central conductor rail, or the later design, with a side conductor rail, to facilitate through working with the L&YR. Conversion must have been a disruptive business. However, Wikipedia suggests that there was an intermediate approach with four rails. "Originally the conductor rail was placed between the rails, energised at 500–525 volts DC" "To allow the through-running of L&YR trains, the conductor rail was moved to outside the running rails and the centre rail became the earth return until the 1920s" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool_Overhead_Railway I have been trying to resist buying Mr Box's book, due to overstrained bookshelves and floor joists, but I have not found a photograph of this London Underground style track. Can our resident experts (e.g. @Stephenwolsten or @rue_d_etropal) suggest whether this is correct (there is a reference, but Wiki is hardly a reliable source), and if so then what dates might have seen four-rail running? I am contemplating designing a simple 3D-printed diorama of Pier Head station at about 1:148 to represent this historic line, pioneering elevated tracks over streets, intensive electric operation and multiple unit working.

A quick count from the handbook table suggests 48 Pecketts in Scotland. There is also the issue of distinguishing the products of Andrew Barclay and of Barclays & Co - the designs were very similar. Neilson & Co were probably the next biggest after Andrew Barclay, but it is a complicated story, and English builders were by no means unrepresented north of the border.