classy52

Yes agree with your points but have to respectfully disagree with your last sentence. That line of 'we should be grateful' gets trotted out far too often on these forums and really doesn't make any sense as it is the companies or individuals who supply us consumers with the goods that should be grateful we're buying their products and keeping them in business even with the associated faults that appear on model railway products from time to time. In regards to DCC Sound the only time I'll be grateful is when full fat decoders are reduced in price because like I mentioned before they are way too high for what you get (personally I think the supplied speakers are crap and let's them down) and yes we do need the likes of Hornby or someone else to enter the sound market and add some needed competition to drive the sound chip prices down. Got couple of examples to ponder on, supplied only thus unfitted: 1. You have a Class 43 HST and want twin sound in both loco's ESU v4 with speakers and sound files will set you back min. £250 (for me that is eye watering and ridiculous) Hornby TTS Twin Sound with speakers probably get for min. £65 Now is the ESU v4 worth the extra min. £175? (starting one engine before the other doesn't count...only joking) 2. You have a Class 37 or 47 ESU v4 with speaker and sound files will set you back min £120 Hornby TTS Sound with speaker min. £36 Same again, is the ESU v4 worth the extra min. £84? I'll be interested in anyone's opinions on the above. These are just my thoughts thus I would like emotive responses kept out of this because someone feels rubbed up the wrong way but just good honest opinions, the reason I have said this because through experience there are far too many times on these forums responses have not been conducive to a good discussion. I am fairly new to this hobby (4 years) and have spent a lot of money (probably been to over zealous or excited) on products and yes I am still learning and always looking for opinions and views based on knowledge and experience which keeps me asking the questions even if some people feel they are uncomfortable or goes against their narrative when comes to this wonderful hobby and yes I am probably guilty in asking for too much from the likes of Hornby, Bachmann or Dapol...let's just call that enthusiasm. Cheers Steve

Maybe sound chip and speaker combinations need to evolve where cutting wires and soldering is replaced with plugs or clamps so that removal of wires like in the case of the Hornby 67 doesn't become a ball ache, funny how Hornby fail to mention this in their instructions that you can't actually plug'n'play.

So there is no universal speaker size out there Hornby could use that would fit into all loco's regardless of make and match it with all their diesel TTS chips? I'm just asking an honest question?

I don't actually own any TTS chips yet but thanks for heads up. I am currently reviewing what to get to put into my loco's because it has now become a cost factor issue due to amount of non-sound loco's in my inventory which amounts to about 24 of them...yes have been collecting over the last few years not realising how out of control it has become. Anyway, full fat DCC Sound chips/speakers are just way over the top price wise so Hornby's TTS may have to be the alternative option, may just come down to mix'n'match over time between TTS & the rest.

Fair enough, you would assume the Hornby brains trust would think outside the box and try to cater for as many non-Hornby loco's as possible by using standard speaker sizes/shapes (I think it's called market research) and not just for their own products and make more sales/money at the same time, but hey what do I know

Useful info, I suppose you get what you pay for but hopefully the 47's lack of enclosure is a blip rather than the norm but is this evident in all your 47 TTS packages? I'm no expert on DCC sound fitting but does anyone know why the speaker sizes or shape are different to each other depending which Class of TTS sound you get?...I'm talking diesel only here. The fact the Class 37 round speaker doesn't fit inside a Bachmann 37 due to apparent oversize is quite troublesome but any feedback from other users would be welcome.

You may also want to check out DCC Concepts 21 to 8 PIN adapter 5 pack for only £16.95 thus seems like really good value from a decent company, link below. https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/21-to-8-pin-adapter-5-pack/ I've also got a load of Bachmann diesels which require sound and have given up on installing £120 plus full fat sound decoders/speakers (prices are way to high) which would cost me a fortune thus I am going to embrace Hornby's TTS chips for my 47's, 66's & 37's. Sorry, just realised you're in NZ thus ignore the UK price.

Trust me I've read the entire thread today for the first time and believe me Dave has been put under enormous pressure hence why I found it mind boggling, half way through there was an undertone of he's about to close the shutters and run off with everybody's money like some dodgy con artist. The bloke must be made of steel and I sincerely hope he sells every last damn one of them including the Stobart and extra retailer items, I shall be getting at least 2 for myself.

For someone who hasn't pre-ordered any 92's via crowd-funding (not yet anyway as per previous posts) and will be defo pre-ordering the Stobart 92 from Kernow when it hits their website and I absolutely agree with you that this particular liveried 92 should have been made available to the crowd-funders first before anyone else at a higher price (due to extra license costs) compared to the other liveries and any unsold stock can then be sold by Dave himself or Kernow at an inflated price to those who are late just like me. Too be honest if I had to pay 20-30 quid (just a wild guess) more for the Stobart 92 being a latecomer then yes I still would if they were available.

Went thru 33 pages of this mind boggling thread and eventually found out the prices of these 92's on page 19 and page 24 if anyone is interested, seriously some posts are real eye openers and most definitely should have been PM's or emails. Anyway I need a drink after that, think I'll just wait for the OO Gauge Stobart 92 from Kernow which I will definitely purchase, maybe wait for the other retail releases or if I find the energy tick a box on Dave's pre-order form when there's actual confirmation of completion/delivery dates. DJM Dave - please publish the current prices on your website or in the pre-order form for these 92's, you do on some products but don't on others??? Edit: What I found most hilarious was everyone pre-ordering the 92 without knowing the actual prices until nearly 4 months later (yes it did take that long to publish) from the initial announcement

Thought I would try here first since Dave visits this thread and responds to people's queries thus any answers to my questions can be of value to other modellers who may visit this thread with a need for similar information, if I don't get the info I need on here then yes I'll try Dave directly.

Can you still purchase the OO Gauge 92 from the DJ Models pre-order book via the crowd funding method, I know different variants are being produced to be sold via retailers such as Kernow & Rails but just wanted confirmation on whether the pre-order book directly from DJ is still active? If yes does anyone know the current prices for the 92 DCC Ready and DCC Sound fitted versions please, sorry but I can't seem to find the current prices anywhere especially for the sound versions as they are not listed on the DJ pre-order web form. Hopefully DJ Models are still accepting orders from their website thus I may have to entertain the idea of purchasing a couple, also when is the approx. release date on the finished product? Apologies if these questions have already been answered elsewhere. Cheers Steve

Hopefully they'll have the lamp iron at the right end this time.

Many thanks for the info, really appreciated. Yes seen pictures of the 92 on these workings but wasn't sure of the time period and also seen DB/EWS 66's hauling these wagons as well.

Hi All, Another re-awakening of this thread but have always admired these wagons and would love to purchase the latest batch from Dapol which have been just released. My only question is would they still be prototypical on a layout modelled from 2012 onwards, I have done a bit of googling to find out but struggling to get a straight answer thus any advice would be most welcome on the time periods these were/are in active operation. Cheers Steve

Well said and the same can be applied to modern diesel products from Hornby hence why it was baffling only 1 current era diesel was released for 2018 as in the Colas 67 where they could have added another Class 56 or Class 60 (especially in DB red), if they did and whether they could sell all their product can be debated until the cows come home. But as stated numerous times already in this thread these are obviously business decisions where Hornby are targeting, they feel, are their most profitable areas which may change in 2019 & beyond and then bring on a whole new debate

Totally agree and absolutely love today's freight/engineering & passenger scene with the heritage traction mixed with the new with all the different liveries thus for the life of me can't imagine why a youngster would ignore this and go and collect or model trains from the distant past, unless he or she is heavily influenced by an ageing dad or grampa who just can't let go...BR Blue era was the business son, I was shunting in my sleep and forget about today's pussy railways with all those fancy colourful loco's going nowhere (old man voice) I think we've beaten this one to death now.

For super detailed models the only financially viable options for Hornby would be a new re-tooled Class 86 (yes due to longevity and liveries), maybe a Class 91 and at a stretch the Class 73 to compete with Dapol whose version hasn't set the world on fire. Other than that agree it would be financially unwise to try to tread over Bachmann's Class 37, 47 and 66 or even the future 20, all the other super detailed Hornby offering's are pretty much spot on but they need to work on providing extra or further liveries on their existing D&E models.

Sort of agree but not sure if Hornby want to go up against Bachmann's 37, 47 & 66 which are pretty good and the forthcoming re-tooled 20 unless they pull off something special in these models such as extra quality detail, build or livery standards. I do think Hornby have a staple in their Class 08/31/50/56/60/67/HST models thus would like to see them expand that with re-tooled Class 86, 91 or perhaps Mk3/Mk4 DVT to build on what they already have in the D&E market. Obviously the ship has sailed for Hornby on the Class 90 & 92. Edit: I suppose Hornby could have a go at a new re-tooled Class 73 to go up against Dapol's so-so offering?

Wow didn't know that, that's really impressive from Hornby and must admit they do great models as in the Class 56/60/67 & HST which I own but too be honest can't comment on their Class 31 or 50 as I don't own any of those examples due to Era. I do love weathered loco's like your 60, just wish Hornby did another DB Red 60 this year.

But has it been updated in any way during that 13 year period or in the last few years to bring it up to current standards?

Hi Dave, From your pre-order book could you provide the prices for the 92 DCC Ready and DCC Sound fitted versions please, sorry but I can't seem to find the prices anywhere especially for the sound versions. Since you are still accepting orders I may have to entertain the idea of purchasing a couple, also when is the approx. release date on the finished product? Apologies if these questions have already been answered elsewhere. Cheers Steve

Yep fair enough but there still needs to be an alignment and UK standard agreed by everyone that modellers can use if they choose to, I personally still refer to it when required and I'm sure others do as well but unfortunately they don't match between companies.

I think all the model railway companies need to come together and completely revise and agree on era groupings especially for modern image as it is currently all over the place. If you look at Hornby they have recent era's 9, 10 & 11 applied to their products and over at Bachmann they only go up to era 9 which has a stupidly wide scope that includes rail companies/liveries that don't exist anymore mixed with current day. Too be honest have no idea what Dapol, DJ Models or others what they apply to their products but like I said they all need to fix this and make it clearer and a proper standard especially for those entering the hobby who don't daddy or grampa advising them.

That is the beauty of model railways and the real thing. I'm completely opposite as I have no interest in steam as it does nothing for me but find the current day diesel/electric scene within the UK quite exciting and intriguing especially when there is heritage locomotive traction mixed with modern day traction including wagon and passenger rolling stock and the colours associated with all the different liveries applied to locomotives built 40-60 years ago. The UK rail network is alive and yes it is sometimes nice to see steam locomotives doing their charters on the main line or on heritage lines but for me it is all diesel/electric, the only downside is that eventually the older loco's within the rail companies books will disappear especially that beautiful Class 37