Widnes Model Centre

Hi Legend, somewhere here in my study I have a full explanation of the Competition Laws, if and it's a big if (just finished checking my VAT Return so I now have copies of invoices being reprinted) I will try and scan and send in a PM to you. I must state that they were obtained for a totally unrelated matter. I do have expertise in Criminal Law, but not Commercial. I had to rely on other legal eagles for advice on Commercial. What I do know from any Law is that it is open to interpretation and that is why we have so many challenges and Appeals. I have many a funny story which one day I will sit down and possibly write a book about having spent what seems like years inside court rooms. I hasten to add, never as a defendant! Just a quickie which, hopefully will lighten the mood. Sat in Court during a sentencing at Liverpool Crown Court and these are true. Defence Counsel "I would urge you Your Honour, sentence this young man to months in prison, rather than years". Judge, I will grant your Defence Counsel His wish. You will go to prison for 60 Months" Lastly, Judge "You will go to prison for three months". Defendant "I can do that standing on my head". Judge, "I will add a further 3 months to that sentence, just to help you get back on your feet".

Understanding Competition Law may assist. The advice I was given seemed proportionate with this matter. The price was not fixed by anyone, price was fixed by Bachmann when they announced an RRP. Agreeing to sell at the RRP gives no one an edge over anyone. Competition laws become really effective when one company has a market share of over 50% and dictates a price that would disadvantage competitors. Obviously a lot more complicated than that but that's a brief synopsis. Often quoted on here is that shops sell at the "usual discounted rate of x% discount for a minimum of x weeks". It is seen that that is perfectly acceptable and any shop that doesn't operate this discount if seen as overcharging. Is that price fixing?

Hi Oliver, might be wrong but the clock seems to be covering your alarm sensor. Other than that looks brilliant. Good luck.

Don't disagree, what annoyed me was the caller a) asking me to price match them.b) telling me, he had agreed to buy 8 from there c) offering to buy all mine, when he was clearly going to profit from his purchases, presumably once all the shops had sold out. In relation to Arcadia, some of my customers shop there. If anybody is looking for Continental, I point them to Arcadia.

Hi Western Dave, a few years ago I would have totally agreed with this. We had sought advice on the point of price fixing and competition in a businesss we were concerned exactly the same as above. We took advice from three separate sources. End result was the same from all three.

Article 101(2) of the Treaty of Rome covers this and is very well summed up by simply searching Google. Article 101(3) establishes exemptions, if the collusion is for distributional or technological innovation, gives consumers a "fair share" of the benefit and does not include unreasonable restraints that risk eliminating competition. My view at the time and still is, this would give small shops like Arcadia and ourselves a fair chance against others. This was not a meeting convened to discuss this one loco, simply the launch of Bachmann products in January 2017. There were lots of other products launched that day and no discussion of any other prices. It wasn't even a discussion it was a nod of the head. If we had all decided to sell at £200 plus then that would have been disgraceful. What happened in other Rep areas, I have no idea although I did read on this forum of a shop, not within our area being questioned as to why they were advertising a lower price compared to others in their area. When I say "doubt it will happen again". Meaning why agree to sell one loco at a given price, when there is always someone who will seek an advantage. You didn't say if you bought the Anglia, someone bought six also discussed on this page. I will stand up for Hatton's, your shggesting that Hatton's were forming some sort of cartel and blackballing others is so wide of the mark as to be off the side of this page. It wasn't their suggestion. As I presume you were not at the lauch you are writing something that the last time I checked was illegal, it's called Libel. Not in sequence to your questions, however, you suggest that Arcadia may be the ones to lose out, why? They made the decision to charge what they want, that is their perogative. If they make £20 less per unit, that is their decision. Selling eight to one customer is also their decision, as others have suggested, did they think it was a very large collector....? When I refused it was because I knew they would end up on Ebay, or did you think he was an avid collector who wanted a large rake of class 47's? I asked this caller where he was off to next and he said he was heading down the M6. Wonder if he was going to Stafford Exhibition to purchase even more? Trying not to bore the readers over this, have you any idea of the overall profit if I was to sell all my allocation on one day? It would not cover the rent for a couple of days.

The caller to our shop told me that he was buying eight from Arcadia but the owner wouldn't sell him any more than that, as he wanted to keep the rest for his customers. They had been on sale for a week before that. As I said previously, the agreement and I was sat at the same table as the MD of Hattons, when these were first announced, was that we would all sell them at the same price. If Tim "forgot" or "didn't realise", how would he have felt if say Hattons had discounted them and gone against the agreement? We didn't order as many as Arcadia clearly did, we thought that ordering many more would possibly leave other shops without any and as we were present when they were annouced that would be would be unfair. We were actually the very first shop to order these. Hattons were next and they could easily have bought the rest. They didn't as they also thought about the other shops in the area. There were 512 for all the shops in the North and Scotland. That number doesn't go far for what was clearly a great pick of loco and livery by the Bachmann rep. We, in my opinion acted fairly and I applaud Hattons for agreeing to it there and then. They didn't have to agree. Neither did Arcadia, if indeed Tim did agree. It was what can only be described as "a gentlemans agreement". If he was discounting for his regular customers, it would be understandable, but it was reported on here and it was I am told also on Arcadia's website. I am not speaking just for our shop but this has left a sour taste in a few other shops mouths. Doubt it will ever happen again.

Good to see that Tim, has only a few remaining of these Rep DRS Specials, by undercutting everyone including Hattons, despite the agreement to all sell at the same price. This would explain the call I had on Saturday asking to price match Arcadia and he would buy everyone we still had. I told the caller to buy everything that Arcadia had in that case. This is the first and only time I am aware of that there has been an agreement by anyone to give the smaller retailers an opportunity to sell at the same price as everyone. Presumably Arcadia customers can look forward to Tim undercutting Hattons, Rails et al in future.

Hi Simon, Have sent you a PM. Many thanks.

Hi, We have some left. The DRS 47 is £154.95p, which is the RRP. We were asked to stick to this so everyone was charging the same price. This was to encourage the smaller shops to take them on and not have to compete with the larger retailers. Postage at cost.

You can come to us not far from there!

Appears to an error on the RRP of 32-815RJ, the Class 47 DRS. I have just checked with RJ himself and it is £154.95p.

Sorry for missing your point, having read it again and read the above reply. Using easy numbers makes things look "easy". Harsh reality is just like Hornby, we have to use reallistic figures. The breaking even and then profitability even after reducing items in a Sale which still creates even more profit? Normal business trading in this industry and day and age, managing to stay in business.

Bachmann DRS Class 47 Rep Special. Northern Dealers, selected by our rep, Ron Jones, great choice by him.

Hi Stewart, I see your point. If we had a mark up of 50% I would be reading your post with total agreement: However I had a look around the shop today and determined the only item in there with this sort of mark up were the carrier bags. But only if we charged 5p for them and were allowed to keep all the profit. As it is we give them away free and further errode our profit margin. But even then we would have to pay VAT on the profit margin on the bags. We have overheads of approx £2600 per month to cover rent, rates, electric, telephone, insurance, alarm, service charges etc. That is before anybody gets paid, including any department operated by HMRC. At that sort of mark up it would be, dare I say it... easy. As someone pointed out earlier turnover is one thing and profit is totally different. Hornby have a high turnover and are making high losses. They are trying to reduce overheads and return to profitability. The only way I could reduce overheads would be to either get rid of one or both staff. When one's my wife and the other my son that would be making things difficult. Hornby I am sure have a rocky road ahead, with many difficult decisions to be made. Discounting? That is what got Hornby in this situation IMHO. One major company we dealt with had extensive discounting on what seemed like every other Friday. What did retailers do? They wait for the Friday offers to come through. Why order at a higher price when you know it will be discounted at a later date? That company and they were huge, no longer realistically operate in the UK. Hornby put retailers in the same position why order when it will be reduced sooner or later ? Lyndon Davies promise to do away with discounting gave retailers hope that what they bought from Hornby on Monday would not be devalued the following week. That takes time to build that confidence and I don't think it will happen as quickly as possibly Hornby need it to. My best guess on the past few weeks is that the division making the money is probably Airfix. Scalextric is generally a Christmas sales product. Humbrol seems to disappearing from a product availability point of view. Issues with Humbrol were there before the fire at Rustons, yet no one at H has offered any explanation as to what is happening with these products. Then there is Hornby Model Railways with the highest turnover but any profit, gross or net in amongst that turnover? Edited as pressed "send" when I hadn't finished typing!!

As you would suspect, we do have such a list. Had a quick look and cannot see if any of the above have been offered to the trade at discounted prices. I feel for the shop owners if they have had to resort to selling at such losses. One can never see what some shops sell at compared to others when you have pricing that leaves much to be desired. Last week Argos had the Santa's Express reduced from £99.99p to £57.99p. That was the 2017 rrp from recollection, £57.99p. Now Argos this week have it in their clearance was £99.99p now £48.99p.

Looking at this list, there a lot of discontinued items in there. Looking at the website, it doesn't actually make it clear whether these are new or used unless you can point me in that direction Darren? It does say the Bachmann coaches are new but unboxed. Potentially huge losses on all those items. Have you seen the top right corner of that web page? It states PLEASE NOTE: ALL PRICES SUBJECT TO VAT AND CARRIAGE.

I bet the owner of the shop doesn't find that price remotely funny. That is a HUGE loss. Care to name the shop?

Yes, we have received the funds. Would you like to pay for Next Day delivery, send more if you do?

Joint production, being produced exclusively for us by Oxmannby. Scale is VB (very big) Dora Rail Gun. Pre-order price will be £90, (you will be contacted by email should this price increase, however you will have to pay the higher price). Cash in sealed envelope secures. Alternatively please send details of your name, full address, Bank Account, Bank card details and last three on the back. For security purposes please include your mother's maiden name. Please send to our bank in the Cayman Isles (details will be sent by email). No refunds. Be quick, strictly limited to the amount of customers who send enough money for us to travel to collect the cash. Put you down for one its-er?

We had a few problems in our former premises. Had to send for help.

We are considering having our own railway gun produced. Anyone like to pre-order? Now this is a railway gun!

I am told the railway gun is approximately 14 inches long, price confirmed at £49.95p. Now that has got to be a bargain price IMO.

The trade prices have been announced. All three are TBA. Same as the retail price. That leaves us staring down the barrel..................... Our nearby retailer may have jumped the gun with their price. I'll get me coat......

The A squared does indeed mean that there is an "Accessory pack included."