MikeCW

Let me add my thanks to Mike Trice for enabling some of us "moderately competent" modellers to achieve an acceptable teak finish on our GN and LNE stock. My guinea pig was a Hornby Full brake, destined for a parcels train on my LMS (Western Division) layout. Despite praise in the mainstream model press for the finish on this model, the more I looked at it alongside colour photos of teak vehicles, the more unconvinced I became. I searched the net and RMWeb and settled on Mike's method described at the beginning of this thread. The only difference was that I didn't have the Vallejo orange handy, so mixed my own brew from red and yellow enamel paints. The Liquin and Winsor and Newton Burnt Umber finish was applied exactly as recommended by Mike. I couldn't remove the clear plastic for the van windows without risking damage and had to mask separately each window and toplight. The before and after photos show the result after weathering. I fixed the too-low gangway and added an MJT connector. There is no lining, but photos of full brakes in parcels traffic show that grime makes the lining hard to see. I'm pleased with it, and grateful to Mike for describing the method.

Great post Rob. The only thing missing is that smell, "Essence of Hornby Dublo", a heady mix of ozone and hot shellac. Mike

I'm not sure what level of detail you need but, on the Hornby Dublo thread, from page 6 (with a post from Il Grifone on September 5 2018) through to my post of September 15 on touching up the paintwork of a play-worn Bristol Castle, there is a fair bit of discussion about matching Dublo colour for station buildings (Ford Sahara Beige from Halfords), and Duchesses of Atholl and Montrose. Elsewhere on either this thread or "Playing With HD Again' there is a consensus that Humbrol 85 (the English not the Chinese manufactured version) is a good match for the semi-gloss black finish on Dublo locomotives. A lot of this is opinion and "eye of the beholder" stuff of course, so perhaps the Hornby Collectors Association or similar might have a more authoritative list. All the best with your restorations. Mike

To complete my end of the Wizard Models story, my package arrived today. The statement enclosed showed the GBP21 "flat rate" postage charge, but crossed out and the actual postage cost of GBP10.55 substituted - about what I had deduced from the total amount charged to my credit card (in NZ Dollars) a couple of weeks ago. Incidentally, this package, and another from Kernow ordered at the same time, took over two weeks to get to me here in the Antipodes. Even Hattons postage, about the cheapest and fastest in my experience, has slowed considerably in the last year. Gone are the days when, in the cheery glow of a glass or two of red, one could place an order on Saturday night and receive the goods by the following weekend.

Hi Numpty There is a lot of information about Hornby Dublo restoration, including paint options for the cast aluminium buildings as well as locomotives, on the two threads "Hornby Dublo" and "Playing With Hornby Dublo Again", both to be found in this Collectable/Vintage section. Both threads run to 30-plus pages so you may have to do some trawling - a pleasure in itself - unless someone can point you to the specific posts. Good luck Mike

Including duplicates and the Canadian Pacific "Duchess", I make that 20 - just over half the 38 owned by the LMS. So there's plenty of room for more

In fairness to Wolseley, I too have been put off by Wizard Models GBP21 "placeholder" for postage costs on overseas orders. I've done a lot of mail order purchasing from the UK, and elsewhere, over the years, and have become increasingly price-sensitive to "P & P" charges, particularly on smaller orders. (For example, I won't bother with any Ebay listing where the seller has signed up to the Ebay Global Shipping Programme.) Like Wolseley I've started an order from Wizard, got to the checkout, saw the postage charge, and cancelled the transaction. Others I know here in NZ have done the same. The helpful post from 45568 prompted me to email Andrew and ask about the charge. He replied immediately, confirmed it was a placeholder and that postage is charged at cost plus 75P, and referred me to the "About" section of the website. However, that had nothing about the overseas postage charge. So I went to the "Terms and Conditions" section where I found: Orders outside the UK are sent using Royal Mail’s Tracked & Signed Air Mail service which generally takes between 3 and 10 calendar days (but note that your order may then be delayed in your country’s Customs). It is charged at £0.75 plus the cost of postage, subject to a minimum charge of £3.90 and a maximum of £21.00. Because of the way online credit card orders are processed, £21.00 is added to all overseas orders when you check out. Your payment is then adjusted for the difference between this notional amount and the actual cost when we pack and weigh your order. So I reordered my items and they were dispatched a week ago. They've not arrived yet. Based on the total amount charged to my credit card, postage has been charged at less than GBP21. So I will no doubt be ordering more from Wizard - though I would still prefer to know P & P charges before hitting the "buy" button, with Wizard Models or any other supplier.

When I've been renovating Hornby Dublo locomotives, if the handrails are bent and rusty I've replaced them with stainless steel wire as described previously. Where the split pins are free from corrosion I've often managed to salvage them but, occasionally, they are beyond recovery. I struggled for a time to find suitable replacements - at least at a reasonable price. The unit price of nickel plated brass split pins can be pretty steep. I finally located a supply of suitable pins which meets my requirements although, if 100% Binns Road fidelity is your thing, you may want to go the expensive route. The photos below show what I'm now using - 1.2 mm split pins from Modelfixings UK. The first photograph shows the pack of 100, price a reasonable 6 pounds. Enough for all the Dublo restorations I'm likely to attempt in my lifetime. They appear to be steel, zinc or cad plated and, though they have a slightly different "colour" to nickel plated ones, are fine as far as I'm concerned. The photo below shows one of the Modelfixings split pins clinched up on a Dublo handrail. It is the one on the far left. It looks fine for size and passes muster for my purposes. Obviously, it can be shortened as you wish. Hope this helps someone out there. Mike

Well said Rod. Though I suppose we were initially reacting to the reasons Garry/Golden Fleece gave for packing in his participation in RMWeb, we've certainly headed to the far horizon. For that reason I'd already resolved to cease posting here on site upgrade matters. However, I'll keep an eye on this thread in the hope that Garry decides to return. Though not a TT3 modeller myself, I've found his contributions interesting, constructive and an encouragement to me to get on with some of my own projects. Mike

Apologies if I appeared to misinterpret your post Kevin. I was simply acknowledging the point made by Nigel that the changes and upgrades to the Forum were in part likely driven by a desire to make the Forum more easily accessible for the users of mobile devices - and that based on your comment, this result was being achieved (irrespective of whether this was your preferred choice). I think I'm now getting it sorted for myself. One regret I still have is that the numbering of posts within topics seems to have disappeared. I like to be able to refer back in ways such as "This was covered by Dangerman in Post #76"' or "I explained how I did this in Post #88 so won't repeat myself here". However, in the great scheme of life, there are no doubt better things to get exercised about. (I'm an LMS man myself, when I'm not refurbishing old Hornby Dublo items. Western Division (ex-LNWR lines) in the late 1930s.) Mike

Nicely put - the changes being partly driven by increasing use of mobile devices; partly by fashion. I understand and accept the former though, like you, I prefer a decent screen and a keyboard. (And users like KevinLMS are now finding use of the forum on their mobile phone easier). But change driven by fashion seems to me pretty much like change for change sake, and if it results in hassles and problems, then I personally find it hard to summon up the energy, and expend the time, to address them.

I'm sorry to see Garry give up on the site, but understand his decision and have some sympathy for it. Others may have different views, which I accept and respect, but for me the changes and "upgrades" are more a pain the bum than a benefit. Now I'm past 70 I have an increasing preference for letting well alone if things are working OK, as I have a lot of things I'd still like to do in this life, and don't want to spend precious time wrestling with technology change for little return. It may be that there were underlying technical issues with the site that needed addressing. But it seems that many of the changes, small and large, to the "look and feel" of the site, have resulted in a lot of irritation and frustration among some users. I don't want to dump on those who did the work - it was no doubt hard and thankless. But my preference would have been for fewer changes, implemented in a way which had minimal impact on the users. I hope Garry comes back in time. His contributions on this and other threads have been both inspirational and of practical help to me.

Like you, Garry and David, I have removed magnets in the past, in blissful ignorance of the warnings about loss of magnetism, and haven't noticed any difference in subsequent motor performance. If I'd had an ammeter wired up to the track this might well have shown a current draw increase, but not enough to cause problems. But now, knowing better, I try to avoid removing a magnet or, like David, slide iron keeper plates onto any magnet I am forced to withdraw from a motor. It seems that the quality, or at least the magnetic retention characteristics, of AlNiCo magnets varies a lot, and it's something of a lottery whether or not the magnet deteriorates rapidly out of the motor? Mike

I can't say I'm enthusiastic about the Forum's new format. It must be a sign of age but it seems that, just when I get to grips with some aspect of digital technology, some 14 year old in an IT company decides that an upgrade needs some new, funky, but unnecessary features and I have to start learning again. Anyway, enough of the grump. I thought that I would complete the story of the refurbish and three-rail conversion of the Dublo Barnstaple which featured in previous posts. As the numbering system of posts seems to have disappeared (or at least I can't find the numbers) I can't give readers a reference to these previous posts. I tracked down the Hattons photograph of the locomotive when I bought it from them. The paintwork was less than pristine! I don't know what the previous owner was up to but it looked like there had been an attempt to clean or strip it using a solvent which had attacked the varnish but not much else. Perhaps it had been weathered and someone was trying to get the weathering off? Whatever the history, it was obviously not attractive to potential buyers as it had sat on Hattons' shelf for some time, advertised at just over 80 pounds. With the VAT off it was about 70 pounds for me so I took a deep breath and hit "Add to Cart". A closer look on arrival didn't show much improvement. In addition to the paint damage and missing lining and numbers. there was evidence of damp e.g. the 6BA steel screws which hold the cab floor plate were rusty, and there was rust on the tender ladder. Also. I haven't seen the white tyres on front bogie and tender wheels before so suspected they were owner "upgrades". The bracket which holds the valve gear reversing mechanism had been painted silver. A Triang coupling had been fitted to the tender. But the good news was that, after a lube, it ran sweetly. After the three railing of the chassis - described in previous posts - I started on the body, for some reason deciding to give it a good clean prior to the no-going-back paint stripping option. I had ordered transfers from the Dublo Surgeon and by now these had arrived. But as I cleaned the body I noticed that, when it was wet, the paint didn't look too bad. Only when it dried did it revert to its scrofulous appearance. So I tried an experiment. I took some good quality beeswax furniture polish and rubbed a section of the paintwork. Instant transformation. So I decided that I would try to avoid a full repaint by lightly sanding and patch painting the right hand cabside, and re-applying lining only to the rh cabside and to the cylinder covers. The cabside letters were reinstated using some old PC/HRMS "Pressfix" ones I had in stock. After this was done I brush-painted these areas with a protective coat of satin polyurethane. I painted the valve gear bracket black (Humbrol 85) and scraped the tatty white paint off the front tyres. Then, after the patch paint and varnish was thoroughly dry, I polished the whole locomotive and tender with a soft cloth using the beeswax polish. The result speaks for itself I think. I removed the rusty screws holding the footplate floor in place and cleaned and chemically blackened them. I simply polished out the patch of rust on the tender ladder. I removed the name plates, reversed them and renamed her "Padstow", using Modelmaster etches. I should perhaps have gone for a name with more letters as the backing plate is now longer than the name plate. But my wife and I had a lovely week in Padstow once and, if I'd shortened the plates, I might have felt obliged to put in the sandbox fillers each side of the plate which were omitted in the Hornby Dublo casting. When the photo was taken, as the protective varnish on the nameplates was still fresh I hadn't pushed them fully down into their slots on the footplate so they stand a little proud. One final point. The photos show how I further "three-railed" the chassis by Garry's method of drilling into the driving wheel bush on the insulated side and inserting a brass pin which bridges the wheel and the axle. I used a 0.5mm drill in a pin chuck and, as my brass pins and brads were either too small or too large, used small brass split pins and gently drove them into the hole and cut off the heads, In fact, the split pins did a good job as they deformed slightly and made a good electrical connection. The pin can be seen at the 7 o'clock position on the rear driving axle before I put a dab of black paint on it. Mike

Very nice Garry. When you reduce the pole pieces, do you remove them and then remagnetise the motor, or file and fit while in place? Keeping the filings out of the motor would be a challenge for me if I followed the latter course! Mike

Hello Ray. Like you I've found Hattons prices for the late Wrenn 4-6-0s - Spamcan and Scot - at the top end of asking prices, and without any variations or discounting relating to the condition of respective items. Your "Exeter" with the great slot-headed screw projecting from the front is a good example. More generally, both their Dublo and Wrenn prices have a random and inconsistent element to them where the same locomotives in similar condition can be 20 pounds different in price. As though different people have priced them, or as if they simply add a standard margin to the what it cost them. Also, the Wrenn version of a Dublo locomotive, say a Castle, can be cheaper than the Dublo one, though the Wrenn one might be in better condition. That of course may be the collector market, something which I'm not really into. Over the weekend I bought an unboxed Wrenn "Barnstaple" from Hattons. With VAT deducted it cost me 64 pounds plus 8 pounds postage, which I think was a reasonable price - certainly cheaper than the Dublo one in rougher condition which I bought from them a few months ago. Mike

Thank you Garry There's always something to learn in this field - part of its interest for me. Mike

All clear now Ray. Thank you. Mike

Thank you Garry I see from your photos that Wrenn have driven the rear axle of these 4-6-0s by placing the worm forward of the gear wheel, as per the Dublo 0-6-2T and A4, therefore reducing the projection of the motor into the cab. Driving the rear wheels by placing the worm aft of the gear wheel creates that big rear overhang of the motor which, at least for the moderately skilled like me, rules out using the Montrose and 2-6-4T chassis under 4-6-0 conversions. It would seem though, by comparing the Dublo A4 and 0-6-2T chassis with your photos of the Wrenn 4-6-0 chassis, that they (the Dublo ones) might be used under a 4-6-0, with wheelbase changes of course. Given the number and range of your rebuilds, I'm sure that you must have done this at some stage? What I hadn't realised, until I looked at a few other photos after reading your post, was that Wrenn changed the A4 chassis to position the worm drive at the back of the rear wheel, as per the LMS Pacifics. My guess is that this was to reduce costs by having common parts where possible? Or is there another reason? Mike

Thank you Ray. The pictures make it clear but for one thing. I understand your preference for keeping the two-rail collectors in place in your conversions to 3-rail, and using them as an additional path for current from the outside rails. But where does the long bolt (which holds the 3-rail Dublo collector in place and transfers the 3rd rail current to the insulated brush via the suppressor unit) go through the chassis? On some 2-rail locomotives, such as my "Barnstaple" and "08". the usual hole for the standard 3-rail pick up unit has the wires from the pick ups on the insulated drivers running up it. In your photos this hole is insulated and blanked off with a piece of tape and it's not clear to me (I can be a bit slow!) how the three rail pick up is bolted to the chassis without penetrating this insulation, and possibly shorting on the former 2-rail pick-ups. The grammar and sentence construction in this post is a bit convoluted but I think you'll get my drift. Mike

Very nice Ray. The Wrenn Scot I assume? I've looked at the occasional one advertised by Hattons, John Winkley and elsewhere, but at the prices asked they didn't really fit with my preference for buying tired and less expensive items and giving them a makeover. Not to say that I'm not tempted! I've never studied one up close - in fact I think I've only seen one in its box in a cabinet of second-hand items in a model shop. It looks from the photos that there is a knurled brush holder at the back of the motor in the cab, which suggests a traditional, Dublo-style, block magnet, vertical motor like the 1950s 0-6-2T, 2-6-4T, Montrose, Silver King etc. In fact, if it's not too much of a faff, would you mind posting a photo of the chassis with the body off? I'd personally find it interesting. Assuming that the model uses the Dublo 8F tender moulding, are the holes for the original Dublo plunger collectors still there? If they are, did you use them for your three-rail conversion by fitting replica plungers; or did you fit another style of collector? On another matter, the A4 tender tops which you spotted on Ebay for me, and which were endorsed by David, arrived here a couple of days ago. I'm very pleased with them and "Merlin" in early BR blue has now been scheduled ahead of "City of Glasgow" in my work-bench queue, after the "Barnstaple" conversion which is in its final stages. I'll post some pictures of "Padstow" as she now is, in a week or so. Mike

Thank you David and Ray. I'd never have spotted these myself. Two have been purchased and should soon be on their way to this side of the world. Mike

Although a little late, I'd like to add to Garry's and "Locomad's" comments. Over the years I've bought a few small items from Tony, the latest some spare bulbs for Dublo colour light signals. Though I never met him in person, I did get a sense of him through our correspondence. He came across to me as a genial, straight-up person, with a dry (Northerner's?) sense of humour. He was a pleasure to deal with and I feel for Darren on the loss of both parents, too soon, and within a few months of each other. Mike

Following on from the above very nice A4 repaint, I have a couple of requests. Like Wolseley, I've recently picked up a good A4 from John Winkley. This one is an unmolested, nicely running, slightly playworn. "Silver King". The one fault is the common one, a moderately banana shaped tender top/coal load. I have a spare tender with a much better plastic top, but have been wondering if there is any technique others have discovered for straightening the distorted one - such as boiling water, remedial bending and quenching. (That is not proposed as a solution; just an example of the type of thing others might have tried.) Any suggestions - or even advice to "forget about it" - will be gratefully received and considered. Second, as I have four other A4s - 2 blue "Gresleys" and two boxed BR Green Silver Kings (gloss and matt) - I'm pondering returning this one to Dublo pre-war style, with side valences in place. Now I've not seen a pre-war Dublo A4 "in the flesh" but, from photos it seems clear that the valve gear is absent; only the con-rods and coupling-rods are there. If anyone can post a photo of a pre-war chassis, without the body in place, especially showing the residual "valve gear", that would be very helpful. In the unlikely event that anyone thinks I have larceny in mind, this would be for my own use and, with a square magnet chassis, could never pass as an original! Mike

That's a nice buy. I too have bought a couple of items from JW, (after he was recommended on this thread IIRC). While for us overseas buyers he doesn't deduct VAT, his prices and postage charges seem fair, and the items are accurately described. Be careful straightening that bend in the cab roof. The mazak can become brittle and you might have just one shot to get it right. Bending it too far and then bringing it back can cause the metal to fatigue and crack. Ask me how I know ......... By contrast with John Winkley I've had a mixed experience with Hattons' second hand purchases. The prices seem random, but can sometimes be good - especially as they deduct VAT - and their postage charges are the cheapest anywhere. But I've found that it pays to study closely the one or two photos they provide as the description of the item can be limited - almost as if those writing the item up are not sure what they're dealing with. That said, some locomotives sold by them as non-runners, and priced accordingly, have ended up running very well after some basic servicing. (Which has caused me a dilemma as I bought them to be cannibalised for parts.) The chassis of an otherwise very nice, early gloss finish "Silver King" I bought from Hattons was frozen solid. I thought for a moment that it had been deliberately araldited in some strange sabotage episode. But it turned out that the driving axles were seized in the frame through corrosion, something akin to that whitish "zinc rust", combining with dried out lubricants and dirt to form something akin to cement. No wonder the bodywork was in good condition as I suspect it hadn't turned a wheel for over 65 years. Penetrating oil and a lot of muscle power eventually freed it up and it is now a good runner. By the way, I liked your "hybrid" non-streamlined Duchess in wartime black with the streamlined tender you posted earlier. Mike