Richie Kynaston

Hi all, Currently doing some planning for my new OO Gauge Layout. As commented in other posts I haven’t been modelling for probably 20 years but am now seeking to return the to hobby with either an OO-SF or EM Gauge Main Line Layout. I’ve really got two thoughts, on is WCML based in the mid-1980s, probably somewhere in the North West, eventually with OHL, and using Bachmann 85s And Heljan 86s alongside some upgraded Lima 87s, and the usual diesel selection. The question is can the Heljan 86s still be acquired and are they any good as a model? Has anyone done any upgrading of the Lima 87s? The other option is a Main Line passing a big Speedlink yard somewhere in the Yorkshire area, probably set around 1978 with plenty of HAAs and coal traffic, and featuring 20s, 25s, 31s, 37s, 40s, 44s, 45s, 46s, 47s, 55s and 56s. My query here being since the old Lima 55s, Mainline 45s etc... has there been a more modern detailed good running model for these classes? The 37s and 47s being popular I’m guessing there is, and others have said the Hornby 56 is good, but what are people’s thoughts on the others? Thanks in advance, Richie

Ah now that was one option i had not considered! Thanks for that. They should be able to come off then, as the new lighting will be connected through the DCC. Ta Richie

Evening all, Well silence has been the result of total inactivity! However, I've managed to pick the ball up again tonight - only for an hour or so, but given the length of time that has passed, I thought an update was in order. I originally started this thread with the intention of converting a Dapol 56 to EM gauge. Why? Well i've never tackled anything like this before - not even detailed, painted or weathered before, so it was very much a 'suck it and see' project to find out whether i could do it. I'd acquired a Dapol 56 at a very good price (read cheap!) from a fellow rmWebber. Discussions then turned into possibly remotorising it as part of the rewheel, that turned into double-motorising it with two original bogies, at which point another kind rmWebber popped up with a part stripped (paint wise) loco offering it for spares or the motor bogie. So that is where I am! Oh with one further exception, through a friend i also acquired a DCC lighting kit for the loco from a chap on eBay. Anyway tonight, i've managed to start stripping the locos down, and have tested both bogies to ensure they work, which they do! Not exactly smooth to be honest, so I am open to any ideas or thoughts on how I could improve the running capabilities. Can anyone tell me what these two black things are? They seem to be connected to the original lighting and I thought at first they were capacitors or possibly something to take interference out, but the former i doubt because the lights go out as soon as the power is removed, and the latter would surely be on the pick-up or motor side? EDIT: Just dawned on me they may be resisters for the bulbs! Duh! Then the move to EM ... or not! The aim remains to upgrade the bodyshell with etched brass grills, change the glazing to flushglazing and do a repaint into all over blue as 56074 Kellingley Colliery, with Railtec transfers. If everything works and looks good, final move will be the fitment of a DCC Zimo sound chip, and wiring up of the new lighting unit. However, Im swaying away from going down the EM gauge road. Lack of time and lots to do - I want to learn how to detail and weather locos and rolling stock, still want to build the layout - the couplings need to be changed to Kadee's, because the layout will need remote uncouplers - I just think having to rewheel everything is adding extra work in where it does not really need to be added. The good news however, is that I am not going to pure Peco OO - indeed I am 90% sure of going 00-SF. That will mean that the Peco trackwork i've acquired can still be used in the fiddle yards out of sight, the rolling stock doesn't need re-wheeling but the trackwork will hopefully look far better. Comments as ever are welcomed! Im hoping to progress quicker now i've actually started! Also got some keen thoughts for the layout, including long coal trains! Richie

Jack/Lee, Many thanks for both of your replies. Lee, can I ask which parts you recommend using for the 56 model? I’m guessing side and roof grills are a must, but is there anything else that you would always add? Richie

Hi Simon, Love the layout, not come across this thread before, so very nice! Im just about to start on EM gauge, converting a 56 initially, but i'd like to think I can build confidence and skill to end up with a workbench looking like this with a couple of locos undergoing upgrade in the not too distance future!! Wow, talk about perspective - those wide angle lenses really can make N gauge things seem huge Richie

Cheers Lee, will do. Shawplan seem to be somewhat elusive, to be honest I was a little concerned about placing an order. Their phone number says we don’t provide a phone service anymore and I emailed them about a week ago with no response, which seemed a bit odd when the phone message says we now operate email only! You’d have thought they would be keen to reply in order to maintain their customer contact. I guess they could be away but nothing on their website at the time to suggest that. I appreciate in old fashioned however, and much prefer to pick up the phone than get into email ping-pong! I presume Shawplan is the only option for these kind of things? Richie

Hi Rob,Interesting, that’s the concern I had about using two powered bogies. I downloaded a copy of Jim Smith-Wright’s PB1 conversion from his P4 New Street website, so should be ok, but many thanks for that. Cheesy Smith:Many thanks for that. Using Hornby Class 58 bogies and repowering with a central motor sounds a logical decision. What motor would you use in that case? I’ve never done anything like that before, so is there a way in which people make drive shafts? Or are they available as spares from somewhere? I seem to recall from years ago, the Lima Class 20 was setup in that fashion nd seemed to work quite well. Are the Heljan 58/47s a Centre motor version then, or just a good chassis to work from? Normally I’d go for the later Hornby body, but this is all trial and error for me as i’ e never attempted weathering before, let alone detailing and remotoring, so it was a case of achieve it with this and I’ve got some experience. If it all goes wrong, I’ve not really lost much! I’m having a wander to the Toy & Train Fair at Lincoln Showground tomorrow hopefully, so will look out for some Hornby Class 58 bogies. Richie

I’m potentially considering one of the Provinical models but is there any indication of how easy or difficult these models are to convert to EM? Richie

Hi Mal, Looks good, nice little layout with plenty of potential for shunting and detailing! Keep us up to date with the progress. Richie

Thanks John. I'll take a look at the link shortly. Im thinking that once i've got the track plan nailed down, which i'm almost there with, then the big first task is to get the fiddle yard sidings laid as they will all be covered (with accessibility points) by the scenic boards, so I cannot do anything until those roads are down. Im going to go with Code 83 and copper clad sleepers for the fiddle yard track, then move to more detailed trackwork for the scenic areas where it can be seen and photographed. Sounds like I am starting a fun game ... but i'm sure it will be worth it. The project is a long-term one, and not quick put it together, sell and move onto the next, so i want to make sure i get it as right as possible. As i want to do photographs and that of the models, I also want to make sure it looks as good as possible. The one thing i like with Colin's approach is being able to solder the track to the copper clad sleepers, then add the cosmetic clips subsequently, sounds a bit less fiddly than sliding chair after chair after chair onto rail! Richie

Thanks - Have a read somewhere that there is a move away from traction tyres now? I presume they dont come with new models, like they used it? Its a few years since i've been around the 4mm scene! Richie

Thanks John, A worthwhile comment, and overall very sensible advice, so many thanks. Once i've got the track plan fully sorted, i'll probably create a thread on the layout planning section (and i'll include a link here) and would welcome peoples thoughts on things. I have to say, im pleased I started this topic, I thought hand-building track was a fairly simple affair overall, I never realised there were so many variables, complications and options!!! Cheers Richie

Hi Titan, Interesting insight, thanks for that. I’m just getting back into 4mm, so I was working on the premise of an older probably three-pole motor rather than any extensive testing. Rich

Hi Mark, Thanks! I did consider that, but was not sure how well matched the motors would be ... also this one sounds a little loud to me, and while I know its going to have DCC Sound fitted, I thought that modern day motors were probably a bit quieter? Richie

Thanks guys for all the help and support. I've had a couple of emails with Colin Craig today which has made things quite a bit clear. Colin also recommends EMGS Code 83 rail for his items, which is probably what i'll go with. Not quite sure where that leaves things for the pointwork, but I know Colin does various parts. The jist of what he was saying (if i've understood everything correctly) is that its likely the pointwork in 1992 on the WCML would predominately be flat bottomed rail on wooden sleeper, with main lines being FB on concrete sleepers, although relief lines could be wooden sleepers, so i'll probably do the goods loop as wooden sleepers for variety, and maybe bullhead rail for the couple of adjacent sidings. So all in all, I think i've made a bit of progress today! Richie

Looking on the P4 New Street site, sorry i've forgotten the guy's name that does it, there is an article on there about re-motoring a Class 56 model using an Athern US chassis .. so might give that a try. Has anyone else looked into that option? Richie

Cheers guys, I think im getting sorted slowly. Colin's various items should sort out the trackwork - just need to get the point templates right now. Colin mentioned that there are differences between Bullhead and Flat Bottommed (ie overlapping sleepers) that end up being incorrect in Templot, so may need to mail Martyn and ask him about that, but getting there. Thanks to all of you for your help - i'll see if i can come up with a home made jig for filing the 'vees' and point blades. Richie

Very impressed with all the detailing work your doing Will - shall now be following Richie

Hi Lee, If you dont mind me asking, im about to have a go at detailing my first model - a Mainline Class 56, which im also regauging to EM gauge. Im looking at the Shawplan site and there are several bits and pieces for the 56s. Which have you use on these models, and how did you go about fitting them? Do you just use superglue? Any thoughts or pointers as to the best way forward for a total novice would be welcomed! Great stuff by the way, love the thread. I think if i was doing this everyday like you seem to be, being a job, id lose all interest in modelling!!! But your stuff does look great. Richie

Clive, Thanks for the response - I started the previously reply, then went off to read and attempt to digest Colin's site, before coming back and finishing the reply, during which time your post had arrived! Really appreciate you taking the time to add the response in, thats great, and has clarified a few things for me. Sorry if im being a bit thick here, but what are ST baseplates? I must admit, I do like Colin's pandrol fixings, they look very realistic, although with soldered trackwork, I cannot, at this point, see how they work? Is the track just soldered together on PCB, then the pandrol fixings just glued on afterwards? The text on Colin's site suggest they sit around the base of the rail to tilt it inwards? Rich

Thanks for that - Colin's site is superb, i've sent him an email! Again, thanks for that, it really helps. I think i'm getting myself all mixed up somewhere along the line! But thanks for the line of thought re plain line and S&C. Cheers John - thats a big help. Do you suggest Code 82 rail or EMGS Code 83? Rich

Thanks for that, that helps. Perhaps im just out of touch but £12 for 6.5 feet, i suspect is going to get expensive! A very rough calculation the layout will have 330 feet of visible track, being a four track main line, which is around 51 packs of this, which is £600 before the rail is taken into account! May need to think of another way, although I guess as I havent got chairs to buy, and it would be bought in sections, its probably not actually as bad as it sounds. Having said that the EM flexi-track from C&L works out at £580 for the same quantity, including rail, so that probably has to be the preferable option out of the two. The trackbase does not quiet answer the points query however - what is best way of replicating concrete sleepers for pointwork? Rich

Thanks guys. I've had a look at the trackbase Pete - its difficult to tell from the photograph, but that looks like its trying to replicate wooden sleepers? Joseph - yes i did wonder if that was the case. These few pics seem to suggest wooden sleepers, but i'm struggling to see any concrete at all, so im not sure that answers the question! https://www.flickr.com/photos/britishrail1980sand1990s/16223069763 https://www.flickr.com/photos/79665856@N08/31769885794 https://www.flickr.com/photos/tunnel_one/23842004719 Although this looks like concrete sleepers in the platform at Stafford in 1991 https://www.flickr.com/photos/stuarts-phots/5577389819 https://www.flickr.com/photos/86020500@N06/14403284904 Richie

Morning guys, Quiet night shift has set me thinking. On my new (first) EM gauge layout, I’m going to try handbuilding track and pointwork. The layout will represent part of the four track WCML in the early 1990s. Now at that time I think British Rail were using concrete sleepers for main lines, not sure about pointwork - can anyone advise? I’ve got the basic templates designed in Templot, but how is the best way of replicating concrete sleepers? Is it copper clad spray painted after build, or is there another way? Appreciate any help/comments. Richie

Hi all, I’m about to convert a Mainline Class 56 from OO to EM. First time of done it, and the loco was acquired very cheaply so if it all goes wrong, nothing really lost! But it occurred to me, that as my new EM layout will eventually have long Coal trains, it might be worth upgrading the motor while I’ve got it in bits. Has anyone tried this before? Can anyone offer any thoughts or suggestions as to a replacement? All advice/thoughts gratefully accepted. Richie