HonestTom

You seem to be contradicting yourself here. You're arguing that "the newer generation of modellers wants it all NOW," i.e. that they want perfect prototypical ready-to-run models straight out of the box. Yet you're also arguing that the Genesis coaches will lead to the dumbing down of the hobby because they aren't prototypical ready-to-run models. Also, can we have a definition of where the "newer generation" of modellers begins?

On the plus side, @Hattons Dave has shown a willingness to listen to suggestions made here and amend the designs accordingly, which might not have been possible if they were announced closer to production.

For me, a lot of the interest in these coaches relies on the fact that I'm not interested in some of the liveries offered. I'd like some accurate Metropolitan coaches, but other companies used the Met's lines. These coaches enable me to represent those non-Met trains without spending a lot of time and money on stock that doesn't particularly grab my interest. They aren't dead on, but to my unlearned eye they look just fine. Just as many modellers will happily include buildings or figures that aren't quite right, but give the flavour of the scene.

I understand that the argument for bashing the Triang ones is that they have moulded panelling, whereas the Hornby ones have panelling printed on. There was also a series of articles on how they could be modded into various Southern constituents' coaches.

Oh boy, people have started using the phrase "deal with." Next it'll be "end of," and then it really is time to take cover.

How dare you, I refuse to grow up.

Which company's stock is the most deserving of this treatment? This is the problem as I see it - you'll maybe get a handful more sales from the modellers of that company, but everyone else is no better off. If a model is really glaringly of one particular company (e.g. it has round-topped Metropolitan doors), that may even put other modellers off. That's long been the complaint about those who use Ratio 4-wheelers, that the coaches are obviously GWR. I'd say that far from making a model based on what they "think it should look like," Hattons have demonstrated on this thread that they're keen to make the models as accurate as possible within the limits of the generic concept and the need to produce something reasonably typical.

The BR market is well-supplied and considerably larger than for any individual pre-Grouping company. For pre-Grouping modellers, there is virtually nothing by way of RTR coaching stock, and for many companies there's nothing at all. I like steak, but if I'm starving I'll settle for mince.

What would you suggest they do instead?

I don't understand it myself. There's no one stopping them from kit building, bashing, scratch building etc their chosen coaches, as has been the case up until now. Nothing has changed for modellers in that position. It's not like they're being deprived of anything. It's just that for modellers who don't mind the compromise, there is something whereas before, there was nothing. Ultimately, whether people like it or not, sales will be the deciding factor as to whether this range is a success. If it fails, then I'll put my hands up and admit that I was wrong and it's a bad idea, but I don't think it will. No problem, it would just mean a wider variety of stock available. Hey Hornby, any chance of a rake in District Railway livery?

Those sell quite well, don't they?

It's becoming increasingly obvious that I don't spend enough time outside the Greater London area... How about a rigid 8-wheeler, Hattons? (I kid, I kid)

In between, they had a weird interim thing with rigid 8-wheel coaches, two sets of four wheels at each end. They're easily mistaken for bogie coaches and I'm not aware of any other company trying this.

Agreed. And if Hattons did produce a rake based on one company, you can guarantee people would be moaning all the more loudly that it wasn't their company that was chosen. This will be my excuse if anyone asks. The history of British pre-Grouping railways is so complex that it's basically impossible to say that a coach couldn't, under any circumstances, wind up with a particular company. And if you're going with something like the NCB or BR coaches, which could have undergone many modifications and rebuilds during their long lives, you're basically free to do whatever. At the moment, I use a similar excuse to justify a bashed Hornby 4-wheeler. I could see a market for a nonspecific livery for freelance modellers.

Same. It's pretty frustrating, as the announcement of that engine was one of the catalysts for me to start seriously looking at the concept of modelling the PLA.

Neat bash, and I love the livery.

A little side note on this (apologies if it's off-topic) was that Whitaker Wright, who was an early backer of the Baker Street and Waterloo Railway, used to refer to his bonds as "consols" to inspire confidence in investors. They didn't inspire enough confidence, and the BS&WR was the downfall of Wright's empire. I'm making a video on the subject.

I was surprised at the announcement of generics, but given the feedback, I don't think that's going to harm sales much. Certainly I'm sorely tempted by several of them. I get that a lot of people would prefer more specific models, but my counter-argument is price. Consider the cost of tooling a specific range of coaches for a particular company. Most pre-Grouping coaches didn't last into the BR era and many didn't even last long in Big Four service. There would typically be many variations. Most of the pre-Grouping companies have a handful of locomotives available, if that. Sales volumes would be low, and the additional cost of research and development would mean that prices would necessarily have to be high. And even then you're bound to have someone complaining because that particular batch of coaches had the steps in a different position and therefore it's totally unsuitable for the Morstemwo and St Bithel's branch, why oh why etc etc. And if you produce coaches accurate for one company in many different liveries, you're still going to get complaints from everyone whose favourite company wasn't chosen, and perhaps fewer sales because the "generic" coach now costs £70 instead of £30. This gives people an affordable way to get a rake that looks about right for many different companies, even if it isn't totally accurate. There's nothing stopping people from making more accurate coaches if that's what they want, but for the rest of us it means that we have something we can run behind our newly-acquired Cs, N7s or 1Ps. I wonder if the lack of LBSC coaches is anything to do with Bachmann introducing the Thomas range, with its LBSC-based Red Coaches?

I'm still waiting on the PLA Peckett that was announced in Summer 2018. It was supposed to be April 2019... then August 2019... then October... now the Hornby website says Summer 2020.

My girlfriend just told me she's seeing another man. I asked her if she'd tried rubbing her eyes.

There are a few new residents and there is a new locomotive under construction, but otherwise I fear it's been a little quiet - real life has been getting in the way, as it has an irritating tendency to do. I'll have to post some pictures next time I haul it out of its cupboard. I also have this annoying way of getting a layout nearly finished and then thinking, "Eh, I'll do those little bits at some point. On to the next project!" With that in mind, a pre-grouping micro-layout is in its early stages. Not gonna lie, the locomotives of New Ankh are almost certainly going to show up.

These may also be of interest.

RIP. I saw his mixed gauge layout at an exhibition many years ago and it's stuck in my memory ever since. A genius of modelling.

I'll certainly be grabbing one. It's funny, a few years ago I remember thinking that I'd love to model the Port of London Authority railways, but there were no suitable locomotives available apart from the Austerity. Now there's the Janus, the Peckett W4 and this. I really ought to get down to that layout build...

Those figures are based on a scale of 38mm, which isn't far off 40mm, which is what Wikipedia reckons is near enough O gauge.