jdb82

Good news: I've put the axels/wheels into the chassis and all moves smoothly and freely on the track. The body looks the part now it's got a chassis to sit on.

Bad news: I countersunk a hole in the back of the wheel so the head of the crankpin screw was flush, but now the crankpin is not perpendicular to the face of the wheel. It was before I medalled with it...... I'm using Slaters wheels which are already tapped for the crankpin, so I wasn't expecting countersinking to affect this.

Have I completely buggered up the wheel, or can I just drill out the hole and glue in place? Just to complicate things, I don't have a pillar/stand drill to ensure I drill vertically!

Chassis is now cleaned up, and I have filed down the middle bearing face plates to a depth that will now accept the length of the axel across the chassis. The one axel I have made up spins freely in each set of bearings, although the middle ones are slightly tighter than the other - hopefully not to the point where they cause problems. I'll get the other axels made up tomorrow and give it a push and see what happens. Fingers crossed.

I also cleaned up the 2nd set of coupling rods - the top pair are for the older locos, the bottom pair for the more recent versions. I'm currently leaning towards finishing my model as number 31, Hamburg. This gives me the more modern loco style, but also the option to practice weathering techniques. It's not kept in quite a pristine a state as Gothenburg on the East Lancs line (no intention to offend anyone who works with Hamburg!)!

Hi. The body is well under way now. Footplate was quite easy including the cab. Firebox was the typical Gladiator/David Andrews style  with from and rear plate joined by turned brass rods. These are removed once the wrapper is annealed and formed around the end plates. Not too difficult when the wrapper is annealed as it's quite soft and can be done with your fingers and a suitable steel rod.

 

The firebox, again annealed but does requite rolling bars to do a satisfactory job.

 

Then comes the boiler. All was going well until trying to assemble to the sections together. It all did not line up and much filing and bodging with shims was required to get the whole thing level along the bottom. (Nothing like a level bottom )

 

Any way all well for now.

 

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The boiler looks superb, especially given all the problems described! Nicely done!

I'm more than interested - I was up on the Welsh Highland Railway over the summer and got quite attached to the Beyer-Garrett they have there. Think I still need a few more kits behind me before I tackle this one though. I think the multiple sets of gear would tip me over the edge though - you must have the patience of a saint.......

Starting to take shape now - needs a but of tweaking at the bunker but not as bad as initially thought.

 

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Just out of interest, how did you solve the side at the bunker end being too long? It looked like it was overhanging by quite a long way!

With the bearings removed and cleaned up, the holes in the frame were opened up a touch. When removing the bearings, 5 of them came out relatively easily, but one of the centre ones just wouldn't budge. I think I'd used more solder on when installing this bearing - it was probably the 1st one I'd done. I have a 50W iron, but this didn't seem quite powerful enough to melt all the solder. In the absence of a small gas torch, I resorted to filing this flush and reaming out the the hole. The spare axel bushes that I had were somewhat chunkier than those provided with the kit, and the 'face plate' of the bush is a little too think; when paired with the bush on the opposite side, everything is too wide for the axel. I will need to carefully file these down to match the thickness of the original bushes, which give just enough clearance. 

The centre bushes were soldered in and then put onto the jig. The spaces were soldered in place , followed by the rest of the bearings. Much to my surprise, it all slid off the jig without any problems, and initial trials with an axel and wheel set are very positive - all spin nice and freely. Bed time was calling though, and I've yet to open the other packets of wheels to have all 3 sets in at once to check everything is level. could be though - the top of the chassis is dead level, and using the jig should have hopefully taken care of the rest! 

As you can see from the photo, I haven't had chance to clean it all up yet - that's tomorrow night's job. The over-sized axel bush is clearly visible in the centre.

Many thanks to Gobbler for assisting with photos - I've started on the N7 bunker footsteps. The lost wax castings are, not great, but they will suffice. I'll put the worst ones at the lower position...

 

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The castings aren't rectangular, nor are my poorly filed holes (complete with a couple of scratches, d'oh!) so will need to find a way to hold the steps horizontally when soldering them in.

I've found a simple strip of masking tape tends to hold things well enough for you to tack solder things in place to start with. Not sure if they might be a bit small for tack soldering to be effective though!

All the best with this! I have a Manning Wardle L class waiting in the cupboard. Love a good industrial loco! 

Why don't you use your jig to assemble the bearings in the frames?

Then the wheel base on the frames will match the rods.

 

Gordon A

Yup, that's what I'm going to do. Now the holes in the frames are big enough to provide a little sideways movement to the bearings the jig will/should line everything up nicely. Phil gave a really good description in post #76 as to how to go about it.

Got both the left and right sets of coupling rods made up, and have used them to set the centres for the jig. This confirmed my thoughts from the end of post #76, that some of the bearings are not quite in the correct position. I have taken the bearings back out again using an old bamboo skewer to push them out as I applied the soldering iron. Next I'll be following Phil's great instructions from post #76 to hopefully align everything correctly. I fear if it works, it may be more out of good luck than any kind of engineering skills I have/do not have!! Fingers crossed....

Looks like an interesting project! I for one will be following. Are you planning this as an exhibition layout? Must make sure I see the film - railways, beer and movies sound like a decent combination to me 

Ooops I missed mentioning the steam heat pipe for the preservation era loco.

Is that the black pipe to the right of the coupling hook?

Just a detail, if you fit the vacuum pipe to your boiler as in preservation then screw couplings and vacuum pipes would be appropriate so that she can haul passenger stock.

If not vacuum fitted then ordinary three links as in your picture of 35.

 

Gordon A

Thanks Gordon - good spot. I'd seen the vacuum brake pipe, but hadn't seen the different coupling. Still haven't quite made my mind up which one to go for yet.....keeping my options open whilst I complete the chassis. There are two types of coupling rods supplied with the kit - the square-jointed version which the older locos used (as in 35 above), and the rounder-jointed rods which were used in the later locos. I plan on making both sets up so I can use the correct ones once I finally make a decision!

All my bit's and pieces managed to make it through the airport screening, which is good news! Another heavy bag, but now fully (hopefully) stocked up to get me to a completed model, although I guess there's always something else you could add. Trick is knowing when to stop.

After a month away from the workbench, I finally managed to sneak a couple of hours yesterday evening. I made a start on the coupling rods. They needed laminating, filing and then the crankpin holes opening out. I used 2 2mm drill bits to keep them in line whilst I laminated them. Got half of one side done (front half), although having opened out the holes to 2.7mm to accept the crankpin bush, the edge of the hole is worryingly close to the edge of the metal. Hope nickel silver is hard wearing enough not to wear through during use! 

2 drill bits being used as a jig to make sure everything is lined up

front half of the rod ready to go

I also made a start on the rear half of the rod, but made a royal mess of it..... the top laminate layer is half etched, and the hole wasn't quite big enough to accept my drill bit being used for the 'jig'. Whilst opening it out, the broach snagged and twisted the end. A firm expletive followed. Quite a bit of remedial work later and I think everything is now straight and uncreased! Still need to file and clean these up, and then solder to the front half. 

So how is this project going? I’ve been reading through the posts and it’s a fascinating ‘little’ project. I’d love to get into something like this, but need to learn a few CAD skills first I think!

Happy Christmas all!

Supplies and paint have been bought, excess luggage is expected......

Work on the Hudswell will resume in about a week and a half or so once I return to Brunei. Hope the paint makes it though the airport scanners OK....

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the info - I scrub the work after each session but just with hot water and washing up liquid, so nothing that will get rid of any tarnish. I’ll get some viakal and give that a go.

I’m building a Hudswell Clarke 0-6-0 short tank that would have worked on the Manchester Ship Canal. Back in the UK Currently (living and working abroad at the moment), so collecting various supplies to take back with me, and work can resume on it early in the new year. My build thread is here if you want a look. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/126038-hudswell-clarke-0-6-0-7mm-agenoria-kit/

John

Thanks All -very helpful as always :-) Paint No will commence in the next few weeks!

It's starting to look something like. Still a few bits to sort out.

I realised this thread was from a couple of years ago now, but I’m building a Hudswell Clarke short tank. Is the light grey livery the standard livery the MSC used for these locos? Does anyone know if there were any others used? The preserved ones all seem to be either black or green, but I’m struggling to find any info online. Maybe I’m just looking in the wrong place...

Thanks in advance for any ideas!

John

Hi Peter,

Apologies if this is a rather amateurish question.....I’ve read through and follow a number of your threads following your builds, and the quality of finish you achieve is outstanding. I’m currently part way through my first brass build and loving every second of it. I notice that you always seem to keep your brass almost completely unblemished. How do you do this? My kit was quite old when I bought it, and the brass already quite tarnished. Do you have a secret for keeping it from tarnishing, or do you just keep it polished? If so, what do you use?

Really enjoy following your threads - an absolute treasure trove of useful advice and inspiration.

John

Looks great! Very neat job. I need to read you painting thread for your methods on lining.....

Enjoy the UK - I'm just putting my shopping list together as I type. In the summer when I did the same thing, I found my weight limit on the plane did not stretch quite s far as I hoped ;-) Better luck this trip hopefully, although I'm not overly optimistic!

What's the two pipes that are coming out of the smoke box?

One will be a blower, I would think the thinner one, the other pipe?

 

Gordon A

Is the larger one not the exhaust from the vacuum brake ejector - a post preservation fitting?

Ray.

Ray, that is my thinking.

So from JDB82's point of view is it appropriate?

 

Gordon A

Answers on a postcard please! I'm afraid I'm still learning the finer points of the various pipes, valves and knobs that you come across....purely going on photos found on the web. I think the larger of the 2 pipes may well be a post-preservation addition, as it seems to be absent from the older locos I have photos for.....see below. 

As for whether it is appropriate for me, that depends what route I decide to go gown. The intention when I started out (and still now) was always purely to use this kit as a learning tool, rather than to end up with an accurate representation of a specific loco. I needed to learn the basics of brass kit construction, as well as painting and weathering techniques, but didn't have a specific loco, or time period in mind. Really, I should model the loco in it's preserved state, particularly in light of the exhaust pipe, but also because these are the photos I've largely been using. However, I really want to get into the weathering aspect of finishing too, which modelling the older working locos would be much better for. 

So now I have a decision to make: 

1) Paint and finish in preserved state - shiny and polished as the photo above

2) Paint and finish in a 1910's-ish state (whether I remove the exhaust pipe or not remains to be seen!! May use a bit of modeller's license)

3) Go for a slightly run-down creation of the preserved version to allow me to practice some weathering.

Food for thought.....need to chew it over fairly quickly though as I need to obtain paint and weathering materials to bring back to Brunei with me in a few weeks.

Thanks for your input and observation - it's exactly what I need :-)

Edit:- It might be worth me saying that I do not have a layout either currently or planning for it to run on, so am not bound to any particular era :-)

Very nice neat build here.

 

With reference to setting the bearing holes, i have the Hobby Holidays jig so can give you some pointers here. You really need to make up the coupling rods first, either rigid or flexible, depending if you are making a rigid or compensated / sprung chassis.(If the rods are flexible make sure that there is no slop in the articulation joint that can allow the distance between hole centers to vary). The holes in the coupling rods may need opening out slightly so they slip over the pins - they should be snug, but sliding fit. You may need a broach to do this.

 

Once the rods are made, use them to set the axle spacing on the jig by adjusting the axle pin positions on the jig until the rods just slip on and off the pins. Lock the jig and re-test - it is possible to slightly move the pins whilst locking down. Time taken getting this right will pay dividends later on. Place both sets of rods on the jig pins to check that the spacing is identical on both sets of rods - i have been caught out that way before. If nessecary adjust.

 

When building fitting the chassis bearings, you will use the jig spacing, as set by the rods, to get the bearings in proper position. I ususally check both sides of the chassis are identical by superimposing one on top of the other. This should be the case, but is worth checking. Open out one bearing hole in each chassis plate so that it just accepts the bearing in the hole. push through and solder. I ususally use either the front or rear axle hole. Then assemble the chassis, complet with frame spacers, etc, ensuring that it is square in all dimensions. Place the chassis on the jig, with the installed bearings sliding on the axle pins, and then try and slide the bearings into the holes in the plate frames. If they fit, great! Go ahead and solder each one into position. If they don't, you may need to open out the holes a touch with a tapered reamer, so that they fit. I ususally do one bearing at a time, ensuring that the chassis remains level. Beware of putting too much heat into the bearing joint for too long - this can cause the metal to expand whilst soldering, which then contracts slightly causing the bearing to be in the wrong position when the solder cools. This is particularly prevelant with thin metals. The solder should be hot enough to flow easily, but without distorting the chassis. This is also true when assembling the chassis side frames to the spacers.

 

Once all the bearings are in position, remove from the jig. It will now need testing. I usually test by putting two axles in first and fitting the wheels (with crankpins fitted), to make an 0-4-0. Try rotating the wheels to see if there are any tight spots. If there are not, fit the next axle and repeat. If there is a tight spot, check to see where it is and if nessecary, open out the crankpin holes a touch with a broach. Just a touch at a time, you don't want to make the fit too sloppy. I usually do not adjust the center axle crank pin hole, but instead adjust the outer axle crank pin holes (e.g. the first or last on an 0-6-0) - this avoids accumulation of error down the length of the wheelbase. One possible problem that is sometimes found is that the crankpins may not be perpendicular to the wheel face. It is essential that the crankpin is indeed at 90 degrees, else this can also give tight spots that will fake you out and drive you to distraction.

 

None of this is difficult, but it does require patience and thoroughness in both building the rods and setting up the jig. Do it in small steps and if you get frustrated with it, step away and come back to it when feeling better. At frist it will take a while, but with practice it shouldn't be too onerous to do and you will soon be knocking out sweetly running chassis!

 

HTH

 

PM

Thanks for the detailed explanation Phil - all makes perfect sense. I shall certainly be giving all of the above a go when I return in the new year :-) It seems like building a sweet running chassis (even a simple one) is modelling's way of teaching precision and accuracy! Fractions of a millimetre..... I know the accepted order of building is to do the chassis first, and then then body, but in this case, I'm glad I've done it the other way round. I think if I had starting with the chassis, it may have put me off! 

A packed diary and a 3 week trip back to the UK in a weeks time (via Dubai for a few days to take in some world class badminton) means that work on the Hudswell Clarke will most likely have to stop until after Christmas. Ever the impatient though, I can't quite stop myself planning ahead to the next few stages. 

First off, the coupling rods. I haven't yet laminated these, but I wonder whether it is best to articulate them on the centre wheel, or to solder them together to form a rigid coupling rod? I'm deliberately keeping the chassis very simple - no compensation or springing - just a rigid chassis.  I'm perhaps jumping the gun a little here as I haven't yet sorted the chassis out (see my previous post). 

The next couple of questions are born out of necessity, as I need to buy paints and equipment in the UK, as I can't get them here in Brunei. I would like to invest in an airbrush - I've seen some good things written in the forums on RMweb about Harder & Steenbeck. Thanks to my birthday being quite close to Christmas, I have a top end budget of about £100-£120, which should be enough for a decent bit of kit. Even though I'm a Yorkshireman, I don't mind spending a bit more if it will be of benefit in the future. 'Tis a good incentive to develop my skills in airbrushing, as currently, I've never even help one before!! Apologies if I'm incredibly naive here, but I'd like it to be able to spray anything from a wide area for the primer coats, to fine lines for detailing. Does that exist?!

Lastly, I need to buy paint to bring back with me. Which means I need to make my mind up what livery to choose. When I first started this, it was purely a kit that I was going to teach myself the basics of kit-building. However, the further I have got with it, the more I have found myself looking at photos to make sure it's 'right'. 

I could go for the green livery and model the preserved version of 'Gothenburg' below (although I believe it's currently in Thomas blue ready for the Christmas season, which I have no intention of recreating!). Another option, and perhaps one that I'm favouring at the moment, is to model an early 1900's working prototype to enable me to weather it....I do like a well-weathered loco. 

Is there anybody out there who knows much (anything) about the MSC Railway? Obviously all the photos are in black and white - I'm assuming that they were in black, but not sure what colour they were lined in....indeed it seems that some weren't lined at all, although this could leave the model looking very plain. 

Any thoughts on the above?

If you don’t mind the suggestion, the coupling hooks would look finer and work even better if you file them to provide a rounded an inverted V, sort of /\, but not so sharp and with a wider, blunter point.

 

This really is a rather nice Model.

Thanks for the compliment, and thanks for the advice too..... been looking at so many photos of pipework recently that I must admit it didn't even cross my mind to look at the hooks. I'll jump onto it this week.

Worth looking at a few photos, coupling hooks are quite subtly shaped in both plan and front view.

 

(Rant-mode / on) And they’re never brass coloured, despite appearing so on legions of otherwise beautifully finished models (Rant-mode / off)

 

It’s also worth persevering with the axle bearing locations. They must match the rods, so if the rods fit the jig, and the frames don’t, you’ll have to unsolder and resolder. Not sure how your jig is made, but if you can somehow wangle the frames on, and then briefly touch the bearings with the blowlamp, to melt the solder, they might just nicely shift and settle with the right spacing. The trick here is to hit it very quickly with the heat, so the frames themselves do not expand, then contract after the solder has solidified, and thus make the centres too close.

 

 

Best

Simon

Simon, thanks for the advice. I'll see what happens once I've got the rods made up, but I like the idea of unsoldering/resoldering on the jig - hadn't thought of that.