jdb82

Coupling hooks have been laminated and attached, along with the buffers.

Also soldered in the bearings to the chassis sides. I have a master chassis jig from Hobby Holidays, and this is the first time I have used it. I won't be soldering the frames together until I have laminated the coupling rods, as these are used to determine the exact position of each of the dummy axels on the jig. Just out of curiosity, I tried to slide one of the frame sides onto the jig, but found it to be an extremely tight fit, to the point where the frame was wanting to bend.....I thought better of forcing it! No matter how much I adjusted the position, even by minute amounts, I couldn't seem to find a location where it slid on easily. I'm not sure if this a result of me not yet locating them using the coupling rods, inaccuracy in the etch, a tight bearing (I haven't reamed them yet), or a problem with the jig (highly unlikely....hopefully!). 

My plan is to do the rods sometime this week and take it from there. Hopefully I'll not need to unsolder the bearings, as I made quite a neat job of them (for me anyway!!).

A USC will only remove dirt and crud loosely attached to the surface of the metal, eg, flux, filings and such like, fingerprints etc are a chemical reaction which it won't deal with, but, having said that, if you are spraying the brass after immersion it won't matter.

 

Mike.

Thanks - that’s helpful :-) So just to confirm then, that a bit of tarnishing has no effect once airbrushed with primer? If you’ve not guessed, I’m a painting virgin.....just working on my first loco currently. Loving it, but learning as I go!

I'm considering buying an ultrasonic cleaner to prepare my models for painting. This is possibly a daft question, so apologies for my ignorance.....

My current project definitely has plenty of general muck and grime that an ultrasonic cleaner would remove, but does it also remove the general tarnishing of the brass you get as you handle it, and the brass oxidises? I suppose what I'm asking is, can I just pop my tarnished bare brass (as it were....) into the cleaner for x minutes and have it come out all gleaming and shiny? That sounds far too simple!! As always, your advice would be treasured :-)

Progress! Lots of little bits over the last couple of weeks that individually, didn't seem worth writing about or photographing.

The tank tops and boiler were all soldered together to the cab front

The dome and safety valves were soldered on, as I still has access from below the boiler for these. The castings were a pretty large heat sink, particularly the dome, and so the temperature needed to be cranked right up on the soldering iron - perhaps a little too high as I could see the element starting to glow....

As I said in my previous post, patience is not always a strength of mine, and so I decided to add the pipework details at this stage, rather than wait until after painting. Connecting plates, and taps were all added using straightened out electrical wire, some waste etch and a spare casting to try and replicate the photo in post #54. Need a bit more cleaning up around where the pipes enter the tanks, but other than that, I'm pretty pleased with the outcome 

Next, I Araldited the chimney on to the smokebox, and bent & riveted the cab roof. Rain strips were carefully soldered on to the sides. Once I knew how far the roof overhung the cab, I soldered on the whistle to the front of the cab. The roof just placed on the cab in the photos, as obviously I still need to paint and fit all the cab details in place.

Just the buffers & coupling hooks to add to the buffer plates, and then onto the chassis, which I've been putting off for a while now 

Impatience won out, and I have started the pipework on top of the tanks and boiler - I'll post some photos when I've got a bit further with it. These are not provided with the kit, and the various lengths of nickel silver wire were all either too thick or too thin. So I've straightened out some electrical wire (thanks Peter - N15Class - for your uber-helpful scratch building thread http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/100390-scratch-building-the-way-i-do-it/page-3 post #69), and used a few spares from the off-cuts box. Coming along nicely. 

The right hand side (as you look from the cab) will be fully detailed, but nowhere have I found any photos of the left of the loco. Not a clue what's up on top on the left hand side of the loco, so if anyone has any photos that can help, it would be much appreciated :-)

 

I didn’t see any taps other than HSS in sub 2mm, do you have preferred sources?

I also use Tracy Tools for taps and dies. However, as I am a bit of a tool-nut, I have been picking up such things from ME shows for over forty years now so it is rare that I need to buy a tap these days.  I think carbon steel taps and dies are not so common now, especially in the smaller sizes.

 

As an aside, for drills, I would definitely recommend buying decent offerings, rather than buying from a typical trader at shows, at a slightly higher cost.  I thoroughly recommend The Drill Service.  Visiting their website is a bit like going into a large city department store when you are more used to going into the village shop but, for drills, it's most likely 'HSS jobber drills' that we're after:

www.drill-service.co.uk/Product.asp?Parent=020080440000&Tool=394

Do not be frightened by the you-cannot-be-serious prices of the tiny weeny drills at the top of the list (The Drill Service are specialists in micro drilling); moving down the list, a 1mm diameter drill is £1.33, for example.  These drills are sharp and hard, unlike cheaper drills (and sets) that are available, and will last without breaking off in the whole, if you treat them properly.

 

The Drill Service does offer taps but they are expensive unless you are going into serious tapping on production:

www.drill-service.co.uk/Product.asp?Parent=180020000000&Tool=416

 

I keep my best taps for brass and then cascade them down for steel (not that I tap steel with small threads if I can help it).

 

David

Mmmmmm.....I think this drill-service.co.uk might be providing some things to fill Santa's sack this year ;-) Thanks for the info.

Perhaps a bit "after the horse has bolted" but I try to solder boilers & fireboxes together, and cabs & footplates ditto. I then screw the cab to the firebox and the footplate to the smokebox, which means they can be separated for painting. The screws are hidden by the back head, which I build as a subassembly with the cab footplate (and crew)

It's more difficult with a tank loco of course, and proved "impossible" with my latest, a dukedog, as the smokebox wrapper is integral with the footplate. Well, I'm sure it could have been done, but the cost in time and effort didn't merit it.

In this case I think I would have tried to fit the sandboxes with screws rom below.

Best

Simon

All good info for the next one! i knew when I started that I'd make mistakes - in fact that's why I started with this particular loco..... purely to teach myself the do's and don'ts before starting on something a bit more layout-specific. I'll definitely go for screwing various elements together next time. Makes total sense. Do you need to make many adjustments to the kit when doing this, or is it just a case of drilling a hole and soldering on a nut?

It depends how experienced you are at painting and how pristine the finished model will be. If you want the model pristine and you are not very experienced at painting, I would leave off as much as you can, to avoid paint bouncing off the pipework and leaving a gritty or "fizzy" shadow on the boiler and elsewhere, where pipes and other features get in the way of applying a smooth coat. (This is assuming you use an airbrush.) There are ways round this, and Ian Rathbone's book details them, but as a mere mortal I tend to leave things like handrails and Westinghouse plumbing off until after painting. 

Unfortunately, not experienced at all ;-) This'll be my first one, so thanks for the advice. I would love to get everything on there first, but need to restrain myself! I'll get a copy of Ian Rathbone's book, as I have seen him mentioned before on other threads.

Handrails I would not worry about, but the sandboxes next to the smokebox will be challenging

 

I cannot reasonably claim to stick to it but the maxim of "don't solder when you could screw and don't glue where you could solder" seems like good sense

 

Best

Simon

Mmmmm.....hadn't even considered the sandboxes! I could take them off, but risk making a bit of a mess if I do. I might just have to work around these somehow. I guess blindly following the instructions is not always the best way! 

Spent a bit of time 'pondering' yesterday evening, and cleaning up a few castings such as the chimney, dome and safety valves. I'm getting to the stage where I need to add all the pipework on top of the boiler & tanks. I'm very much looking forwards to this stage, but I'm not sure whether I should add all the pipework yet, or wait until it's painted. I like the idea of being able to solder everything in - it gives things a greater sense of permanence (in my mind, although I realise this is not necessarily true!), but this will make painting very awkward if I add it all at this stage. Alternatively, do I try and reign in my natural impatience, wait until after painting, and then epoxy them? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated 

Photo below is what I'm aiming for.

I'm currently building a short tank Hudswell Clarke from the MSC (7mm scale), and have been looking for a set of drawings. Where did you obtain yours from? I'd be interested in getting a set for myself!

Managed to get back to the workbench this weekend after a couple of busy weeks at work. 

Solved the smokebox saddle wrapper issue by adding a strip of brass to the bottom of the etch, which affectively pushed the curve up to the bottom of the smokebox. It's not the smoothest join ever, but it's out of sight unless you turn the body upside down and look for it. 

Some of the short tank Hudswell Clarke, had tank top extensions to cover the gap between the top of the tank and the boiler. My model is also to have these, and so I knocked some up from waste etch as they were not provided with the kit. These were soldered on with a deliberate 'join' visible, as on the prototype they were an additional plate, resting on brackets on the tank. 

Next, the boiler assembly was soldered to the footplate and up against the cab front. A bit of cleaning up was needed here. I was unsure whether to solder or Araldite the smokebox end to the footplate.....I knew that it would be difficult to solder cleanly from the front (there was no access from the back), but wasn't sure if Araldite would be strong enough in the long run, so soldered it on in the end. Still need a little more cleaning up, but I think it will look OK eventually. Not sure if this was the right way to go or not.

Last job for the weekend was fitting the handrail. This is a one-piece rail that runs from the tanks, and curves round the front of the smokebox, following it's profile. It took me quite a long time and a couple of wasted pieces of wire before I got it right. These extra details as they are added to the basic structure are really starting to bring the model to life now.

More detailing is next up - I had a look at the clack valves. Unfortunately, the castings in the kit are not the correct ones for the prototype. Even then, they are pretty poor quality, so I need to either source some others (which would mean waiting to complete this detailing until I return to the UK over Christmas), or attempt to make my own. I will probably plump for the latter option, as I'd like to get the bodywork done before then! 

Wish I'd have read this post 24 hours earlier.....Spent most of yesterday afternoon battling with my one-piece hand rail   All in place now though and looks OK. 

In fact it's the first time I've come across this thread - nice work! I'll be following this one with interest.

It's really looking the business Peter, are you going to tackle the painting and lining yourself?

 

Dave

Agreed! I'm currently working on my first brass kit, and can only aspire to this level of craftsmanship! Shame we can't always just leave them naked rather than painting - I think they look beautiful in the raw metal 

That looks a bit better (so I need to put the spacer back on that I took off...).

 

I need to widen the slots in the footplate a little as the wheels can touch so a short is very likely. Not sure what to do with the smokebox saddle as it's not the right radius

 

IMG_20171101_084117.jpg

Although not perfect, something like Milliput could work if the gap between the saddle and the smokebox is not too big - that way you could form the radius by simply pressing the boiler into the Milliput, trim off the excess, smooth with water, file and sand. I've just done something similar with my saddle, but it was only a small gap, but too big to fill with solder. It is a bit of an experiment, and one which for my loco is mainly out of sight...

My tuppenceworth.

 

Fill the smokebox door with solder (lots of aggressive flux and wash well afterwards!) and polish back, and use low-melt screw or glue to attach it. Synthetic fillers will work fine, it’s just my preference, but you’d definitely have to glue (or screw) it on.

 

For the back of the smokebox, I’d cut a bit of fret waste to fit to the underside of the boiler, and then file it back to match the saddle. Again, personal preference, you could use plasticard & epoxy.

 

HTH

Simon

I'll go for the solder option with the blemish in the door I reckon. The more I work with it, the more I like the stuff! I actually soldered the door onto the front of the smokebox - I was fairly careful, and it did take a while, but after a bit of work with wet & dry paper, all looked good.

I think the making of a new saddle might be the way forwards, but out of brass, not plasticard.....not going to find much of that out here, so I'll bring a stock back with me when I come home for Christmas. The profile of the curve isn't bad, it just needs to be higher up.

Onto the smokebox. 

I needed to make the wrapper from scratch, so the first task was to measure out, cut and roll the rectangle of brass needed to wrap around the front of the smokebox.

I dimpled out the rivets, and then soldered on the wrapper to the front of the smokebox.

The smokebox door and locking handles were one of the lost wax castings provided with the kit. These do not have the finest of finishes to them and required quite a lot of tidying up before use. The door needed quite a lot of polishing, and even then still has a very noticeable blemish (bottom left). I'm still undecided how to fix this....solder and file back, or maybe Milliput? It's not huge, but I need to do something with it, otherwise it's the only part of the loco I'll ever look at!

Soldered the door, seal and handle onto to smokebox and gave it a clean. Attached this to boiler and stood and admired it for a while. These stages of the kit start to make it look like a loco! Beyond the appearance, just the satisfying and increasing weight of what I've put together so far is a pleasing indicator of progress! Or maybe that's just the  large quantities of solder I've been using ;-)

Question for the day..... As can be seen from the photo below, when I attached the boiler support at the back of the smokebox, there was a gap between this and the boiler. This might have been a lack of accuracy when I made the smokebox wrapper, or it could have been something (unknown) else. Either way, everything looks OK when placed on the running plate, but I need to fill this gap with something. Should I solder some scrap brass behind the gap and fill the recess with solder, or should I just fill it with Milliput and sand it smooth? It's not really going to be very visible, unless you go looking for it.

I keep telling myself not to give into the temptation to put this kit aside and start something simple like a 9f  I've been really busy at work (damn them!) and have been getting a bit despondent with the lack of progress but having another go at the moment to get it on the move again. While I'm (still...) waiting for the Markits stuff I will be looking at getting the rather wide motor to fit into the boiler next.

the motor I have is rather wide and long.......just too big really. A bit of extra trimming of the boiler might be needed....

My boiler beachhead I think I have made a bit too deep (I had parts that I'm still waiting for too, so made my own in the end), but this might work to my favour for fitting the motor in

I think I've been waiting 6 weeks now

 

Meanwhile - some progress, even if it doesn't look like much. I've done some gentle tweaking of the valve gear and also tried out my rollers. I wouldn't say it runs like a sewing machine, but there's no sign of tight spots and I can run it up to full speed in either direction. It does wobble a little bit. There's no lubrication anywhere so not going to run it too much.

 

I need the extra bits from markits to finish the motion off, hence the hanging down bits...

 

IMG_20171025_141433.jpg

Looking good! Hats off to you for tacking valve gear.....not ventured that far yet. Another week or so, and I'll be onto the chassis of my loco - been putting this off for a bit now

Except where it’s on top, like many Atlantics, most Pacifics and the 9Fs

 

Sorry, being a smart@r53!

 

I think the issue was the length of the firebox, which translates as the width of the strip that forms the wrapper.

 

Best

Simon

Yep, you're right....maybe I should have referred to it at the depth of the firebox. I can take a certain amount off this measurement, but if I take too much off, there will be  gap between the front of the firebox and the recess in the internal floor

Leaving aside the school of thought that says that brass boiler bands are too thick (and I can see where they're coming from), a technique I have found useful for fitting them is to drill a hole under the boiler, hook the end of the band into the hole, stretch it round until it covers the hole and tack it in place, then cut off to fit.  You can then flux & solder bit by bit all the way round without it going all diagonal - though beware that it will expand more than the boiler, so you want to sort of work your way round and cut off the excess if any.  You can get the same effect without the hole if you can solder the end of it on at 90 degrees to the axis of the boiler, and then do the same.

 

The boiler backhead is lovely, good job!

 

best

Simon

Thanks Simon,

Something to try for the next kit I have lined up :-) Mmmmm.....getting ahead of myself here.....still quite a way to go with this one first! 

I did enjoy putting that boiler backhead together - very satisfying!

Been jumping around in the instructions recently whilst patiently waiting for the smokebox and firebox wrappers (which we're missing from the kit) to arrive.

Soldered on the boiler bands - something I thought would be relatively simple, and then discovered was incredibly fiddly! In the end, I decided the best way to achieve this was  to run a thin layer of solder to almost fill the half-etched strip around the boiler, then lay the band over the top of this having pre-formed the curve, flux and heat with a clean iron tip to melt the solder underneath, whilst holding the band in place with the above-mentioned silicone squares to protect my fingers. After a bit of cleaning up and a polish, I was quite please with the results!

Deciding what to do next created an interesting dilemma: 3 options - the cab details (which needed the firebox wrapper), the front of the boiler (which needed the smokebox wrapper) or start work on the chassis (which I'm just scared of). Decided to give up waiting though and decided to attempt to make my own.

Started with the firebox wrapper. It was easy enough to work out how long it needs to be, but there is no info anywhere (including from the vendor) about how wide it should be. I plumped for measuring the gap in the internal cab floor as a guide, although this looks too wide when I compare it photos of the prototype. That being said, it doesn't look too out of place once in the cab itself. Either way, I rolled the curve round a piece of dowel without any issues, and then soldered it to the firebox face, before dimpling out the rivets. Firebox doors, regulator, gauge glasses and manifold details were all added. A steady hand was needed for this! Once again though, very happy with the outcome, even if that firebox wrapper is too wide.....

Now I need some advice from some wise heads.....the instructions say to solder the internal floor, firebox assembly and tank extensions into the cab at this point. I'm thinking that this would make painting extremely difficult. I reckon that I could solder the firebox to the internal floor, before soldering the floor onto the footplate. This could be lifted out as one unit for painting and weathering. However, I guess this would then have implications for soldering in finally if it was already painted up! Or should I keep everything separate, paint & weather them and find another way of attaching them all?

What to do??!!

There's a short tank one at Oxenhope on the kwvr, is that the same?

Same loco as I'm building :-) I shall smile nicely at my dad again sometime soon!

Just a couple of pics after the cab/tank assembly has been soldered onto the running pate, along with grab rails, some brackets and a couple of steps on the front of the tanks.

 

IMG_5989.JPG

 

IMG_5994.jpg

Agreed....the long tank version just looks a bit out of proportion to me. My dad kindly nipped up the road to Leeds (Middleton Railway) as this is the closest prototype to where they live to take some photo's for me. They only had the long tank version, and it looks even odder in the flesh. Luckily, I only needed cab details, to this one sufficed. Interestingly, the long tank versions had a coupling rod which was articulated horizontally to help them get round tight radius curves (along with the flange-less centre driving wheels). Not sure if the short tank versions had the same? Even if they did, I have no intention of recreating that on my first attempt!

Just a couple of pics after the cab/tank assembly has been soldered onto the running pate, along with grab rails, some brackets and a couple of steps on the front of the tanks.

Soldered the tank/cab assembly to the running plate now, and starting to attach some of the grab hand rails on the cab and tank front.

As I’m treating this build as a learning process, I’m constantly finding new ways of doing things. In our kitchen, we have a silicone pan mat so you don’t scorch the work top. Much to the dismay of my wife, I cut a couple of squares out of it, as they are very useful for gripping parts of the kit whilst soldering them together - high friction and low heat conduction - perfect!