Philou

@lezz01 Well, I didn't know that - thanks for the information. Is Butanone (diluted) OK for the chairs that you sent? I don't want to end up with brown soup all over my baulks - oo-er missus. :)

Cheers,

Philip

Top tip: If you use Ethyl Methyl Ketone, do be careful in its concentration in the air as apart from being flammable, it'll make you go woozy and at one time it was considered carcinogenic (whether it still is the case I don't know).

Hello everyone,

A couple of days off to add to those already lost over Christmas and the New Year (unfortunately). I've struggling a bit with the bridge at the moment as my card isn't giving the same results as the first time I used for the bridge. I also had a closer look at what I originally constructed and am horrified to see glue marks and badly fitted bits of card - painting hides a lot!

Rather than tear my hair out or give up, I'm changing the approach of the construction and I shall do it in Plasticard and Plastistrut but it'll wait until I get to my favourite railway porn shop - erm - emporium, Lord and Butler in Cardiff to which I shall get in mid-February. My brother advises me that he has a full stock of assorted shapes and sizes. I shall get rivet head transfers from RailTec.

I made a useful discovery that I can acquire 5L quantities of EMK (MEK) or Butanone and iso Propyl Alcohol (iPA) here in France at about €6 a litre - that ought to make fair few bridges!

Cheers,

Philip

Good luck in your endeavours! Do stay focussed though - it's all too easy to waylaid - how do I know this?

If you're pining for the ES1 - get it especially as your first thoughts (IIRC and maybe in the original post), was that wires were heading towards Queens Park(?). I like the slightly quirky or one-offs and I saw the ES1 on sale at the Locomotion shop in York - had not been in glossy I would have bought there and then!

Cheers,

Philip

Railway sleepers - hundreds of them! The irony being that they have to be loaded onto lorries as there are no rail-borne goods handling yards (or railway lines for that matter) within miles of this saw-mill:

80% are sold within France and the rest to Germany and Belgium. Only a very small amount goes to the UK.

The sleepers are sent out out cut to size, drying and pressure treatment is carried out elsewhere and the finishing (rebates and bolt-hole drilling) is done by the respective railway PW departments.

All in all, a very interesting and railway related morning.

Cheers,

Philip

PS: I'm sure that some of them would be useful as timber baulks too :)) .

PPS: Forgot to add that the extra-long ones are used in S&C works - but you probably guessed that!

................. there were hundreds of them, including these extra-long ones:

Any ideas? All will be revealed in the next photo .............................

...................... message continues. And there were more:

Next photo .......................

@5BarVT Oo-er ..... what a mess! Luckily the bridge didn't collapse when the loco was upon it.

An excellent report showing the details in which I was interested and what's more it shows the construction of the plates and flanges in detail and I can use card in appropriate thicknesses. I can see now that the deck is supported by the cross-girders (and in my case, longitudinal 'I' beams underneath) and held in place by short flanges on the inside faces of the main and central girders. What good chaps you all are.

As I'm keyboarding, I may as well continue with what I was going to write tonight. This morning, I went as part of my Council duties to a local saw-mill (I thought it was for Monday - but there you go). You might think 'boring' but on the contrary I found it very interesting for reasons you'll see a bit further below.

The invite was in the guise of a working breakfast (don't get excited - not full English, just coffee and a croissant) for a hard-sell of entering contracts direct between the saw-mill and the communes, to which we are already subscribed. The idea being that the saw-mill can be assured of a steady supply of quality hardwoods (rather than all the trees being bought by the Chinese and then brought back as finished goods - it all keeps employment and money local - and I agree fully). The downside is of course that the Chinese buy at 30% more - so there is a slight loss of revenue to the communes.

I found it all very interesting and the bulk of the wood sold by the saw-mill, apart from oak planks in assorted sizes for flooring, were these in beech (30,000 pieces/year) in lengths of around 2.8 - 4.7m and sections of 160 x 220mm:

Continued on next message due to size of files ...................

1 hour ago, 5BarVT said:

if there were a central girder it would have been two separate bridge decks, one each side.

@5BarVT Mmm, yes my model is going to be just that - two separate decks. I expressed myself badly in my musing. I'm trying to get my head around of just how the deck would be supported on the central girder if there are flanges every six feet (say). Regarding the two outer girders their outer faces would have flanges  (they're usually the sides we can see from a road, for example) but I have assumed (probably wrongly) that the inside face has no flanges and just rivetted plates at each joint (I have a photo that may bear this out). But what happens when there's a central plate girder? The few photos that I have tend to show flanges, but the decks are big corrugated channels within which the sleepers are placed with a bit of ballast and an angled plate from the girder down to the channel presumably to stop the ballast falling out of the channelling (does this make sense?). How is all supported? I suppose the channel rests on the bottom flange of the girders. (I think this 'flange' is actually the web).

^ This photo shows a central girder but I can't see what's under the angled plate at sleeper level. This bridge has the corrugated channelling under the sleepers and having looked at the dimensions from this side and externally, it seems that the sleepers are partially inside the channelling.

In my case, I'm having a flat bridge deck without ballast and the rails on baulks - how is the deck supported along its edges? Perhaps it isn't and is supported by the longitudinal 'I' beams below that are then supported by the steel sections. Are there cut-outs in the decks at each flange?

I was in highway design but never did bridgeworks and even then our office only did concrete or concrete/welded steel composite. Plate girder construction is probably very old hat - but I'm curious - surely the Victorians didn't use skyhooks - or did they? :))))

The bridge that I used as illustration from the RAIB report above, appears plated but no rivets were used in its construction - its all nuts and bolts and unfortunately as the inspection concentrated on the damaged track and baulks, there are no details regarding the bridgeworks itself.

I know I'm probably overdoing this thinking lark, but if you don't ask, you don't find out.

@GWR57xx Thanks for the heads-up. I had a look and I may have to get some in as I finally found my nail punch and had a go. Read on ......

I found the punch in the last place I looked after about an hour. I had a play with some card I had at hand but it's not what I had before and the results were definitely NOT as was shown in the photo above. The punch did what it was supposed to do and punched right through the card! A lighter tap with the pin hammer didn't make enough impression. I shall have to find other grades of card to have a go, otherwise it'll be as GWR57xx has suggested, Railtec Transfers.

I did manage to cut out the side and central girders with their curved tops. I've also marked them ready to place the flanges later:

I'm not sure of how the central girder would have been constructed. I'm musing on this as to whether it would have been a box girder so to avoid flanges being cut into the bridge deck. It makes no odds really, but an inquiring mind just wants to know.

Next step will be to cut the vertical plate flanges to length and then the ends followed by the top and bottom flanges. The last bits will be the angles between all the various parts. I did it once and I shall do it again - hopefully to a better standard this time.

Toodle pip,

More tomorrow,

Philip

Just to add, the punch is only about .33mm wide so makes a rivet of about 1" diameter.

@JeffP Steady on there ...... you can have the rivets and the sections but it won't be in steel or wrought iron :)). I may have mentioned already that I have a nail punch that (if I can find it) gives a reasonable impression of a rivet head on card when tapped with a small hammer. I'm going to have a revisit (when I find it) of the effect as it might be overscale. I have a choice off using it as intended and have overscale heads spread further apart or find a smaller punch (probably unlikely) or not bother and say 'they're too small to see - ahem'.

How big are these rivets anyway? 1"? 1.5"? I haven't any plate girder bridges around these parts to measure as they're mostly stone arch. I think my nail punch makes a rivet head 1mm wide - which is 3" - =80 !!

I shall do a test run tomorrow (if I can find the punch) and let you know how I get on.

This was my first (and only) card bridge to date. The photo shows the nail punched rivets. Do you think it would pass muster - especially when viewed from 600mm away? :

^ There really should have been a fourth row of rivets - but I think I only want to give the impression of rivets and not necessarily count them! ;)

Cheers everyone,

More tomorrow,

Philip

PS: My 'new' ECoS arrived today by hand from Cardiff - so something else with which to play!

Hello chaps and chapesses,

Not a lot happened as I was rostered to do kitchen work today as we're having our tenth (yes - 10th!) and last, Christmas lunch until the end of 2024, tomorrow.

I have managed to cut to shape the bridge deck out of 2.5mm card - I'll need to trim it to size once I start the plate girders. I have the dimensions of these and once I find my 1mm card, they will take little time to cut out as I have curved templates already to suit (co-incidentally the same as some of my trackbed curves).

More update on Thursday,

Cheers,

Philip

Well chums and chumesses,

Rain p*ssed on my parade today and so any thought of cutting down trees came to a halt - was I disappointed? Oh no I wasn't! It meant I could stay in the warm and dry and carry on with this 3D model, that is now complete. I just hope that when I start cutting the card it'll be as accurate as the drawings:

^ The bridge deck.

^ The under girder work. There are things that I don't know in how its constructed - for example, the supporting girders under the running lines, do they touch the deck (which I assume they must do)? If so, what form are the cross-girders? I've shown them as 'I' beams with large flanges but in real life are they an inverted 'T' shapes? I'm probably over-thinking this as once it's all fabricated you're not going see much detail on the underside!

^ The underside as seen from the branchline - I reckon it'll do despite my lack of detailed understanding of how it's built.

^ The whole thing in Technicolor (sic). Tomorrow I start cutting out card and I just hope it'll look vaguely similar - perhaps 'inspired by ......'

I did manage to beef up the central girder without distortion - 30 second job - well pleased with that.

Thanks to @lezz01 for giving me the idea and getting the bits of trackwork out to me.

Cheers,

Philip

10 hours ago, lezz01 said:

What are going to build it with, plastic or card

Hello Lez,

I ought to do it in plasticard, but there are no suppliers nearby so it'll be in card (I know there are internet sales, but I like to have a look at it especially the channels and beams). I have a lot of good quality card in varying thicknesses and some not-quite-as-good that does take a nail-punch to form rivets. The latter card will be OK for forming cleats and angles. Once all glued together it forms a quite sturdy model. There was, years ago, a scale model in 4mm of the original Brunel Tubular bridge over the River Wye at Chepstow, in card, it was extremely well done and it was quite amazing how strong it was. Lord and Butler had it for sale at a price that was very, very reasonable, but I couldn't make use of it at the time. I hope it went to a good home!

More this evening,

Philip

PS: No lumberjacking this morning due to rain - maybe this afternoon :( .

As ever, real life called wanting a day with me and not only Saturday but Sunday as well so very little was done railway-wise. I have tinkered with the General Arrangement drawing in 3D and I have set out the deck. Tomorrow (out in the woods cutting trees notwithstanding) I shall tackle the girder work underneath. In finishing the top part, I did note that the baulks could be shortened slightly and that has been done. I could also see that the central beam could do with beefing up a bit and this I want to raise by about 4mm making it a nadger's worth under 12mm above railhead height. I'm sure if I can do it in one go on the drawing as the only facility I can see will stretch it and not add to it (if you see what I mean) and may deform the span - we'll see.

Here is a modified drawing:

^ The baulks have been shortened but as you can see, the central span needs beefing up height-wise. Generally, I'm happy with the GA.

More tomorrow,

Cheers,

Philip

Wut??

Before the actual green question was settled, I was going to add that the Smith's seemed remarkably similar to the dark green used by Marks and Spencer years ago.

Hello chaps and chapesses,

I thawed out enough to carry on doing some drawings in SketchUp and here are my plans - there is the decking and all the metalwork below to be done. I haven't gone to the nth in detail - there are no angles nor rivets shown (so you can't count them ;)) ) and the track is laid onto the ballast rather than sunk into it. The drawings are to be considered as general arrangements and the building of the bridge will fill in the details. Here we go:

^ A view from the Dymented side showing the two main outer girders plus the central one.

^ Unfortunately this view won't ever be seen normally as it's towards the rock cutting. A pity as I prefer the look of it. I've included the trackwork on this one.

^  This is the trackwork showing the baulkwork and ties. The model will be laid to a slight curve (24mR) but I wasn't going to do it on the plan as the 3D work becomes more complex - gives the idea.

Tomorrow I'll do the bridge deck and all the under gubbins - the bridge will be straight but the track will curve gently over it, like this:

^ Picture copied from the RAIB report into a derailment near Wansted Park, London. Used with permission. My trackwork will not have a walkway covering the tiebars to the baulks.

Cheers everyone,

More tomorrow and stay warm.

Philip

1 hour ago, Andy Hayter said:

Minus 6 just at the moment

Brrrrrrrr ............ just thinking about makes feel cold. Anyone like a nice large friendly dog that needs walkies four times daily? Just got back in - I think it must about 0° but feels like -6°C due to a light North North Easterly wind that's blowing.

14 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

Added to that, glues and paints take a lot longer to cure.

Hence why I'm waiting as I'm at the stage where glueing and plastering of the scenic areas is to commence. I know that PVA is sensitive to low temperatures and will go off (in a bad way!) and I've a largish area to do. There's mild weather due in few days certainly our way (don't know about you, Andy!).

Cheers,

More later,

Philip

1 hour ago, lezz01 said:

Why don't you get some heating in the barn Philip

I do have a modern ceramic-type electric fan heater but the problem is that there is 110m3 to warm up! I would prefer gas, but the problem is with any flame based heater (gas or paraffin) it creates condensation which in times of cold weather means that damp will get everywhere - the Velux could be opened but then all the warm air will escape! At the moment, there is no damp in there so I prefer to keep away and work in the warm. The dew point is usually around 7°C (it does vary of course) so once temperatures rise again (we had +13°C yesterday afternoon, down to -2°C today), I shall be out there toot dee sweet.

What I ought to do is decide early in the morning if I'm going to the railway room, turn the heater on and then go in the afternoon. At the moment it's just a quick visit, measure and then out again.

Cheers,

Philip

Hello chums and chumesses,

I didn't update yesterday as there wasn't anything to report. I haven't yet figured out why, but I felt a bit in the dumps - quite flat in fact. I think it's simply I can't really get into the barn due to the cold - and it's lasted a week already and more to come! Besides, real life seems to be getting in the way and tripping me up!

Anyway, today is better and I have started to create some sketches for the skew bridge - the longest side with be 350mm, the short side (nearest Dymented) is 200mm and the centre span will be 240mm. As the branchline is curved underneath, the skew changes hence the irregular spans.

I haven't yet decided what shape to make the plate girders - I'm thinking of a curved top - Rule 1 and all that - rather than a plain rectangle as all the other bridges will be copies of the prototypes and they're in the main, plain.

More to come,

Cheers,

Philip

Thanks for your thoughts, chaps and chapesses,

I agree with your views and I shall go with a similar design to that already done for the retaining wall facing Dymented station. I shall do arches but without batters this time.

I finally got to give the wall a waft of varnish this morning and screwed it into place. The fun will now begin as I want to continue the rock face between it and the trackbed of the branchline. As it's darned cold in the railway room and I see no point in putting the heating on for just an hour, I shall tackle the bridge next as I can do it indoors. Milder weather due at the weekend - huzzah!

Nevertheless, here's a picture of the wall before fixing in place:

^ Can't believe it's taken me since before Xmas to get this far!!

Cheers,

Philip

Hello chums and chumesses,

After a stop - start day, I finally completed the short retaining wall and coloured it with my usual black and green weathering pastels. I haven't photoed it yet as I want to give it a waft of acrylic matt varnish first and it was too darn cold in the barn - -5° today and I doubt if the spray can would have worked well anyway. Down to -7° tonight so I may have to hold back any spraying until Thursday when it'll warm up.

Anyway, save for the spray it's now finished. I shall now start on the retaining wall facing the branch fiddle yard. I may do some plain arches to break up the facade a little - no batters - just plain vertical faces. I could just go for KISS as I'll have three different styles otherwise and I think the engineers of old would have kept styles to a minimum. Any thoughts?

I'm happy and it's moving again.

Cheers,

Philip

From what I have read elsewhere, locos are always going to be an issue in 3mm. I have seen that the 3mm Society do have some stocks locos and other rolling stock. Perhaps a visit to their thread may provide you with answers, particularly those of availability. I did see some photos and my impression was that most of the locos relied on the old Triang TT kit - there didn't seem to be much by way of 'modern' stuff.

If I may boldly ask - why have you not gone for 1:120 (unless you've already got a lot of 3mm TT stock)? The new TT 1:120 seems to have taken off since last year and there's oodles of continental locos that could perhaps be adapted to your needs.

Just my thoughts and good luck in your endeavour,

Philip

Hello chaps and chapesses,

It was a near-disaster yesterday at the AGM. I had three sheets in varying details of the accounts ready to give to everyone plus the now jigsaw spreadsheet for me and the Hon Chair and Sec to have at hand during the meeting when I noticed that the simple resumé (the one to be signed off as the correct record of the statement of balance) was not correct! Very much an EEEK!! moment. Fortunately the meeting hadn't started and I had to strike out the one figure and insert the new by hand (and no Tippex either) and sign the correction. The rest of the data and other sheets were - luckily - correct.

As it turned out, it wasn't to be our usually comfy meeting as the local town maire turned up together with a big-wig from Paris (Hon Sec from the Railwaymen's Clubs Union (UAICF)). They had a perfect right to be there as we receive grants and subsidies from both and likely to get double this coming year (1200€), a sum not to be sniffed at.

In the end it all went well following a mea culpa from me (being interrupted in my flow whilst correcting and printing the day before) and the accounts were unanimously accepted and signed off - phew.

There was a question that threw me completely by the UAICF Hon Sec as to why there was a big discrepancy between income and outgoings (€1500) for the one show (so happens sponsored by the UAICF) whereas there wasn't very much for all the other seven. I didn't understand the question as I couldn't see the point - in the end it became clear as it was the first big show (for us) of the year and it was income from tables, meals and the bar that gave us a good return, whereas the others we were there as guests and therefore no income for us on those days only outgoings.

In the end all was well.

Today, well it was today and it was far as it went as I thought I'd better start the year properly and created a new set of accounts!

Tomorrow, time is mine! Yay!

Cheers,

Philip