Lacathedrale

I've looked at a few 7mm loft layouts and I think I've settled on 4mm, especially thanks to Harlequin's prescient comment below. That was a cracking read - as we've spoken about here it basically replicates US model operations in a British layout, equally (as far as I can see?) reflecting prototype practise. I've used CC/WB and switchlists and I had no idea that the same would run true on both sides of the pond. That's a really fair point. I've not made it up there with a tape measure, but I estimate the roof is at a 45 degree pitch and roughly 13' at the floor. My eye height on an office chair is 4' from the floor, and I think a baseboard height of about 3'6" would give me a usable width of 6' at baseboard height tapering down towards the back. If I can skew the layout into a yin-yang then I'm not stuck with narrow modules specifically, but I'm aiming for sections of no more than 5' x 18" or so in one piece. Underneath will be storage of the wife's sundries 125 pages seems like alot to go through, but I'll give it a shot. As it pertains to loft: it's already finished (insulated, heated, skylights, power, etc.) and as long as I can house my wife's odds and sods I've got free reign ontop for a layout (and unfortunately, nowhere else in the house unless I look at my home office (10' x 7' and really does have to function as an office/studio). I wanted to go with something with separable modular construction so the not-inconsiderable investment in time, stock, etc. wouldn't be lost if we had to move house or the unlikely event we had to repurpose the room (or as you say, if it's not suitable at all in the long run for a layout). That's interesting - I thought that freight had more or less ceased before the diesels came about (so yes, they would take over the steam traction's roles but those roles would mainly comprise of passenger and block working). Northollands 'Chapeltown' has a Type 1 and a Class 08 working, the latter even as a semi-captive shunter. It seems reasonable to me although I wonder how much of that comes from the US influence. Idea # 1 Caterham Railway, a three station branch line down the valley where I've just bought my first house. The line was operated by SE&CR but only accessed over running rights on the LBSCR out of Croydon. There's a small terminus (coal wharf, crane line, goods shed, dock and two platform faces (one of which with a scissor crossing to access the goods yard): https://i.imgur.com/zxYSPXM.jpg My newest local station is Kenley, and just look at that building: https://i.imgur.com/x6IrxsF.jpg The branch joins the mainline at Purley, and by coincidence on the branch-side of the junction there is an engine shed: https://i.imgur.com/Y0aNtav.jpg which presumably would he been primarily for LBSCR locomotives on the mainline but I think I could happily fudge that. SE&CR also runs into Hawkhurst, my family's ancestral abode. Set at the turn of the century for small coaches, slow speeds, etc. If only that Bachmann c-class wasn't so blinking expensive! One of my other micro-layout ideas in the past was the Greenwich Park branch of the SE&CR so that could potentially fill the urban itch with only a one-time stock investment.

RFS that's quite interesting - so essentially you broker the RS8 blocks between the bus and the rail sections. I didn't realise that 'train tracking' was the defacto standard (what would happen if I picked up a train and put it somewhere else and then started a timetable??)

Hi DoubleDeckInterurban I've used those hardware controllers in the past and they seemed expensive for what they did, which is why I'm interested in JMRI/Traincontroller and a SPROG-USB connector, but I still just can't grasp the kinds of feedback that track detection requires to automate it to the level that's been done. On the other hand, maybe one-engine-in-steam with DC and an isolating block might just keep things simple at this rate, the more I dig the more I see very transient technology stacks and software that already looks 20 years old...

Thank you sir - these seem to be route setting within the unit itself however, rather than influencing Traincontroller/JMRI/etc. ?

Hello all, As per the post in the wonderful Chapeltown thread I've seen that DCC is mature enough now that computer control is fairly par for course if you're that way inclined, and there are dozens of software options for automating some and all parts of your layout. I understand how route setting works with software, but on the aforementioned thread northolland there are two features which really stand out to me: The system appears to know where each locomotive is at any one time, and uses this as the basis for protection/interlocking and to facilitate automated movements. What kind of magical occupancy detector is this? Surely it's not just logic based on the last known location, because Mr. Holland is manually switching trains as well as using automated timetables. Fundamentally I understand how accessory decoders are controlled, but even those expensive detectors I have seen that can return specific train occupancies seem to only do so via LCD screen as opposed to comms back to the controller itself? Mr Holland also has push buttons which immediately active a given route program in his software - and I gather that's the same kind of question - is that DCC traffic going around the bus, or some additional layer of connectivity? Many thanks,

Hi all, Firstly, I'd like to say what a revelation this layout has produced in me - all my Christmasses have come at once and it has provided a very thoroughly enjoyable morning's reading. I was redirected to this fantastic top thread from discussions I'm having elsewhere on the board about a very similar question and I'm very happy to see that prototypical wagon-load freight in a British setting is not only possible, but both prototypical and interesting. My research indicated that this kind of work (a Wagon of X to Company Y) had dried up by the 1960's, but clearly that doesn't appear to be the case. Is that a geographical thing, or simply a reflection on your own desires for era? Can I please ask a few questions about your implemetation of RR&C TrainController? I appreciate this discussion has mostly focused on the operational aspect of the layout, but that appears to pivot around a robust system for automating train movements. You obviously have a USB-DCC interface, and so I can gather how train and point operation work by addressing individual decoders, but I'm far less certain about other tactile elements. One of the problems I've had with layouts in the past where I've reached too far in terms of size and complexity, was that with only myself operating it was pretty bloody quiet, so some automation would be excellent and most apropos. What kind of block detectors did you use? I can see how Traincontroller or JMRI would set routes and even control trains - but I'm not clear at all about how occupancy detectors (such as http://www.coastaldcc.co.uk/products/teamdigital/dcc-block-detector)would be able to return data back to the computer. Are they constantly being polled for their status or is there some kind of 'return to controller' configuration you need to do on the detector itself? I can't seem to find any information about how the push-button timetable/routing works on the RR&Co website. I gather the momentary contact switch is triggering some kind of pulse or in the DCC bus, and the controller is somehow getting that information back and using it to set a route in the same way one could click a button on the PC itself, but I'm not clear how it actually connects up. Lastly, do you have automated uncoupling (hence your choice of Kadee's) or Mk. 1 hand? I gather these would be yet more relay-controlled electromagnets under the trackbed controlled by DCC accessory decoders? Many thanks,

Hi both, I'm sorry I've typed my reply twice, and both times it's been eaten by the PC. So, I've always found something to get the juices flowing but they've rarely stuck with it. Operationally it seems a British layout needs to slot into pre-1930's and definitely no later than the 1950's - i.e. wagon-load traffic, branchlines with shorter trains, varying liveries with running rights. Unfitted trains running at 10mph and vacuum fitted expresses at 40mph would further extend the 'run' I have. The only caveat is that I need somewhere to run something other than short tank locomotives. I don't need realistic homes for my Mallard, but I'll be god damned if I'm going to keep everything miniscule all the time. Before I write them off entirely, can anyone can suggest reading material for operationally-interesting freight operations run by diesels (even if they were green with no yellow ends)? I grew up around the sounds of Class 37's, 33's and 73's from Hither Green MPD but the block working of shuttling whole trains just bores me to tears, as do EMUs. Any thoughts around that would be interesting (just pretend not being a sustainable option, unfortunately!) Location-wise I'm not altogether bothered, though I grew up in suburban south-east London I've travelled a fair bit and really enjoyed Edinburgh, Manchester and all around rural York, the West Country and South Wales. There are flashes which inspire: grotty LMS Tanks with crimson coaches on brick viaducts, lustrous Apple-green LNER Pacifics being fussed over by an attendant shunter, or some slightly more stretched example of a Deltic and an 08 doing the same. So to clarify, if I go with EM I should look at roughly 30" radius curves? While a reversing loop could work, It would take up more than half of the width of my space (even if the lobe was the other side of the joist). I think 4mm might be the best shout, sketching up the space when I have to factor in the roof tilt too, brings my available footage down significantly - to say nothing of challenges of reversing loops (or train turntables kindly mentioned). Speaking of joists you're quite right, but that is a project for another year - this particular layout's scenic sections would be made on standard modules in order that they can move with me and/or be relocated in the case of engineering works.

Thank you all for the advice and kind thoughts. I'm hoping for the concision of a small layout, in a big layout space - I don't want to get carried on with filling the room up with ladders of trackwork JUST BECAUSE, but on the other hand I've only ever HAD room for small layouts, so I do want space for a pacific and four or five coaches to run through (well, at least in 4mm). Reading this now, thank you. To carry on from the thought above by BG John however, I'm certainly not looking to fill the space. If we were in 4mm I think I'd be quite happy with something that was essentially a BLT, circling around on some superelevated double-track to a marshalling yard (or junction, or through station ,or whatever) and then around again to some staging underneath the BLT. More Chris Nevard than Cyril Freezer? Thank you for some great thoughts there. I'm checking out the Gowhole thread now, it seems very much up my alley both in terms of operations, physical setting and desire to remain faithful to prototypical works. It is really not my taste at all to 'play trains' and sit back watching them whizz past, but it would certainly be nice to have breathing room for a sense of moving from place to place. I'm a little worried about duplicating the same problems I had with my ATSF layout, (pictured below just so this isn't a wall of text) in that I will have both shunting and mainline operations, but precious little to connect the two other than one or two cars being set out by a passing express train each session. I wonder if a terminus station (like an aforementioned BLT) with a long run into and out-of may provide more concrete interaction between the various parts of the layout...

I made a huge layout based on Lance Mindheim's CSX Miami - prototypically correct wagon-load traffic in an urban switching setting with period correct industries, locomotives, etc. - and my other more fully formed US layout was the ATSF mainline at Amarillo with ABBA F-units pulling express reefer trains and a local shortline interchange. For all intents and purposes these should have provided the absolute highest level of operational interest, but ultimately failed to captivate me for very long. I've come to realise in myself that the 'wille zur macht' i.e. the desire to become and to bring into being is very strong (even to the extent where it can override more pragmatic concerns about a given idea's longevity). The crux of the matter appears to me that the US-style of operations provides the meat, but British outline provides the connection and stability. I'm currently perusing this website to see if I can get a wagon-load freight operation running in British practise - http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/7-fops/007-index.htm. Itseems that there are basically the same concepts as US switching; there are rules for marshalling wagons in orders, in different cuts for pick-up goods trains, etc. but I've never seen this kind of operation actually performed on a British layout. That's a nice link, thank you. I'm not sure that I need to compress as much into my space as humanly possible, but maybe I can use this as a kind of meta-planner. In my mind I'm seeing low storage units (for general attic tat) supporting to main sections of layout that are opposite each other, like so. Bear in mind one has to climb over these joists so not a problem to get into the middle, it will make access to either side 'during a session' a bit of a pain: (not to scale, will get some proper measurements today) I reckon that using these long spaces for single objects (whether they are marshalling yards, BLTs, junctions, etc.) would allow me to really take advantage of the space - instead of just having a bigger version of those super-compressed mini-layouts that I've tried in the past. Ultimately my choice between 4mm and 7mm is borne by two questions: whether I can get a 180' turn in 7mm in the space I have available (maybe even in S7 again), and whether I can get the wheels I would want if I were to kit-build things. I am happy to scratchbuild the chassis and body from drawings (or at least, to try) but I'm not quite at the stage of casting my own wheels. This is particularly a consideration given that pre-grouping or early 20's will allow me to utilise smaller carriages and trains without due compression.

I've recently purchased a home with a 35' x 10' finished attic, and so for the first time in my life not only do I have a permanent space, but I have a BIG permanent space to use. I've been trying to pull together some longer-term plans about what could go up there, which is giving me something to think about when I've got nothing else to do. In the past I have tinkered with a few different layout styles. Every one of them brought different things to the table: US HO-scale was fun for switching but I had no personal investment in the setting, and shuttling cars from one switching yard to another was quite dry US N-scale gave me the opportunity for mainline freight and alternating mainline/local services with lots of switching, but really required two people EM (just a test plank) got me into modelling rather than purchasing. S7 (another test plank) really got my juices flowing with regard to kit construction and even more detailed modelling. Restrictions Accessed via extendable ladder and relatively small hatchway, so requires modules no larger than 5' x 18" each. While insulated is not heated, one or two modules must drop-out for use elsewhere in the house. There are joists 8' in from the ends, so activity must be centred in the middle of the area. Desires Must be operable by one person and must provide ACTUAL operational interest (not just a shunting puzzle) If in an appropriate scale, use the ends of the attic for return loops (or just plain loops). Focus on realistic use of spacing, clearance, etc. From this, it appears that I only have a few options: Focus on the detail - S7 Pre-grouping small branch line terminus (since I can't have return loops), but sacrifice operational interest Focus on the operations - HO American in some other permutation, but sacrifice any kind of aesthetic consideration Focus on some kind of melange - S-scale British with a slightly bigger BLT (or a pair of stations), EM-gauge British with multiple layers, etc. I just don't really know how to go about narrowing this down! Any pointers would be much appreciated.

Hi Ernie, Did you get any further with this layout? I've just moved to the area and have a house backing on to the Caterham branch, and that old SER station building in Kenley is gorgeous. It's got my juices flowing, so to speak. Thanks,

Thank you all - I am very grateful for her kindness, she is after all the woman who I want to spend the rest of my life with. I got a glimpse of the box as we walked in (postie had just dropped it over the fence) - it's a roundy-roundy with passenger coaches. I'm happy not to dig too deep to find out which in particular. As it pertains to whimsical modelling I'm not a big fan of the 'pizza layouts' but I am open to suggestion? Maybe the solution is to run it around the Christmas tree and then file it away for future projects (maybe some kind of notional OO-SF plank or something).

My wife is the most wonderful and caring person I know, and so when I mentioned I was into model railways when I was younger (and a little as an adult with some brass scale-seven shenanigans), she put that very honestly together with a 'wouldn't it be silly to have a little train to go around the christmas tree' comment and has bought me what I can only assume is baby's first Hornby set. Now, I love this woman and her goals were admirable and sweet, but I think we all know that the track, controllers, and both locomotive and stock in this little set are going to be just about abysmal. However, I want to see if there's anything I can do to turn it around and not be a total waste of money - I don't know if I could look her in the eye when she gives it to me on Xmas day knowing that it's going to get taken out and then basically thrown away moments later. I think that actual operation is out of the question, and of course any remote approximation of prototypical views too. I'm thinking that it might be a bit fun to try to make it a model of a model; that is emerald and lime green flock, metcalfe card buildings, etc. it's really quite far off the scratchbuilding, 7mm, prototypically operated layouts and stock/kits that I've been working myself up over on-and-off over the last years, and if you've got any thoughts or suggestions I would really gladly hear them, Many thanks,