MAP66

50 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

There are some lovely photos of Collet Autocoach no 190 at Didcot here: https://didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/article.php/120/no-190-collett-auto-trailer

 

The carriage was built in 1933 to diagram A30

 

Diagram U was built in 1912 and is the trailer that usually runs with the steam Railmotor: https://didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/article.php/110/no-92-churchward-auto-trailer

 

Looking across Russell vol 2 there are loads of Autocoach photos and diagrams - no mention of 1st class and the small compartment seems to be for smokers.

Thanks Neal, smoking compartment it is then. Did any of the diagram drawings or photos show that there were doors to the smoking section or rather to the partitions either side of the passenger entrance?

I'm now committed to completing the cab interior before moving onto the luggage compartment and then it will be the passenger areas. Once I have the cab interior panelling done, I can then fit the cab controls which the kit included. At this stage I have loose fitted the front panelling and the partition with sliding door. The interior of the two side cab doors are also completed. It's all dry fitted for now to check for  a good fit. Some further filing around the window apertures is still required, below are a few more progress images;

The interior front panelling still slightly visible through the front windows, bit more filing required. Sliding door is visible and so is the drivers overcoat hanging up. The small drill holes visible by the left grab handle will be filled with minute globules of cream paint.

Dry fitting the front cab panelling for size. A paper cutting template was used, whereby I could draw in the window positions onto the cladding profile sheet.

Side view of the profile cladding across the cab front. The interior panel on the far cab door is just visible.

A more in focus view of the internal door panel.

View through the front window.

6 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

 

I thought Auto coaches were all Third class with the smaller area being non smoking…. I could be wrong of course as I’m not in front of my books at the moment.

That sounds plausible too, would also make sense to have a door to that section to keep the smoke in. We'll wait until you get in front of your books for the definitive answer.

5 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

I take it that the smaller section ahead of the luggage compartment was first class? Perhaps there's a door there and steerage class just get a couple of draught deflectors?

That sounds like a plausible explanation, would be likely there was a door to that section to keep the riff raff out. Does this mean I will now require more plusher upholstery paper for 1st class seating 🤔

41 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

Note: Superglue is a misnomer.

I know what you mean!!!

Nice to hear you got the rods done, its one milestone out of the way.

Re. the partitions, so far I've seen sliding doors, no doors, glazed and unglazed and everything in-between. I'm a little confused on this myself as not sure what would have originally been installed or in use for mid to late thirties period.

Doesn't help that the model has a narrow partition gap one side and a wider one on the other side. Unless, someone here can shed any light on this, I will make another decision and probably just leave open without doors. I do intend to model the levers in this area though, the ones that lower the steps. 

My attempt at the internal lower door panels for the drivers cab. Paint used is Humbrol gloss 9 (Tan). The leather window straps are made from thin strips of masking tape with holes made with a needle. I may try and attempt to get the straps more narrower? The retaining button knob is 0.31 brass rod and the rain strip at the bottom of the door is half round plastrut, 30 thou I think. The handle are brass 'T' style coach handles.

8 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

Interesting you have done that with the drop light… I was wondering if you could do that…. Obviously the answer is Yes!

5 hours ago, MrWolf said:

I did that on a B set years ago, but chickened out of doing it on the autocoach.

 

Than someone raised the bar so I might just be having a go. Besides, it definitely makes it easier to see into the cab.

I made a decision and went for it, about 20 minutes later I made a further decision and that was to ‘not do the other side’. I can only describe the procedure as nerve wracking and I was glad when it was over. You definitely need a new scalpel blade in the Swan Morten and the more senior of us (me included) would benefit from some optical magnification, I had my trusty optivisor.

The glazing has now arrived and I’m at a point where I feel it’s time to tackle the cab interior. I found some informative reference material on YouTube from the South Devon Railway, links below;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf_ir-1-Ji8&ab_channel=KV12543

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkC8Ox5k6PA&ab_channel=GarethHarrison

I made a start on painting the droplights, I’m still working on one side, it’s had 2 coats so far and 1 more required. The colour I eventually settled on is Humbrol Satin 133, which is a reddish brown. I then thought I would be adventurous and model one of the drivers cab windows in the lowered position. This required removing all of the droplight, retaining the top quarter section and then gluing that back onto the bottom of the window aperture which you can see in the image. I am only doing one side, as I consider it more luck than judgement that I got away without breaking anything in the process.

I was always told to be suitably attired when standing in front of windows, so as to avoid any flashing, That's what I told the judge anyway 😆 Thanks for the tip though as I do have a bit of delicate filing to do around those windows which I had forgotten about.

Incidentally, would you mind sharing which colour you are using for the droplights, I have seen pictures where it almost looks to be more of an actual red colour than mahogany, maybe that was for later versions?

Well done for making a start on the droplights, it's a job that I should have completed by now while waiting for the glazing to arrive. I'm a bit daunted by the task though and have put it off. You have given me the necessary impetus to 'get on with it'. I think your method of several coats of paint is the solution I was waiting for.

Yes, several thin coats of the brown paint is also the order of the day, I can vouch for that after applying it too thick and regretting it afterwards. Wet and dry paper for us both, I feel. 

Well I’m still waiting on the Shawplan glazing to arrive, so in the meantime I’ve been fathing about with internal doors and areas of panelling which won’t interfere with fitting any of the glazing later. I’m adapting some brass LNER internal coach compartment doors from MJT. In an attempt to loosely copy the style of door on the Didcot autocoach, I tried to make them more GWR’ish in appearance, so I opted for non-glazed 2 panel doors for the drivers cab and the luggage compartment (the drivers cab being a sliding door). There is still some trial and error with getting the colours looking right on the panelling. When I’m happy with a colour match I’ll let you all know the colours used.

Top glazing bar removed and card inserted into top glazed panel. I probably need to fill the bottom panel with filler to hide the grooves.

I also removed about 1mm from bottom of door.

Drivers sliding cab door, when properly fitted it will be slightly recessed back from the panel so as to give the effect that it slides open to the left behind the partition wall.

Drivers door from inside the cab, slides open to the right, just use your imagination.

On 25/04/2023 at 01:45, MrWolf said:

On a slightly more serious note, here is the CC2 project, resplendent in its livery as 16910, allocated to Newport, it's not too much of a stretch to assume that H. Pooley's took over maintaining the E.Spiers & Co weighbridges installed in the 1870s.

That's very, very good, I want one 😀 hats off to you and @chuffinghell

7 hours ago, MrWolf said:

Meanwhile, the half finished autocoach is glaring at me from the other side of The Mat Of Mutilation (cutting mat to you) so I think that I better get on with it as @MAP66 appears to be rounding the corner to the finishing straight.

I could be on the finishing straight (I’m stretching my imagination in an attempt to visualise crossing the finishing line) still a few bumps in the road to negotiate yet, I feel. Unfortunately, I can’t progress much further until the glazing arrives.

2 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

That’s looking good @MAP66

 

Re: lamp positions, the red lamp should be on the lower right bracket, but given you can’t change them, I would stick to the lamp under the window in both directions. It’s a compromise worth making.

 

 

Thanks Neal for that information, very useful. Like you say, I cant (change) remove or add lamps once fitted as they will be wired in. Would it also work as a compromise if I fitted a red lamp as you have said on the lower bracket and a white lamp on the upper bracket and when the coach is driving the white light comes on and when trailing the red light comes on. Would that look more acceptable in your opinion, as I think that would look better at the loco 14XX end as well.

9 hours ago, MrWolf said:

I think that you do yourself a disservice in thinking that it's a bit untidy, far from it, it's not as though we do this for a job and there's no training other than having a go. The fact that you are willing to have a go makes you a step ahead of a lot of people.

I have to admit that I dithered a little about the fusewire cable, but I see that it's possible, so it's getting done here too. I'm only hand painting the new parts, as I don't have an airbrush so there's nothing to worry about there.

I'll be getting straight back to mine once the transfers are on the CC2 Mink van, which I'm on with as I type.

 

Then there's my 517 to finish, the AA16 outside frame Toad, a crane and match truck plus a layout somewhere....

Thanks Rob for the words of encouragement, much needed as I was a bit disheartened, its always a good thing to get another’s perspective. I probably have been a bit hard on myself, given that this is still fairly new to me. Its probably the cruel close ups which caused me to be hard on myself, the lumpy paintwork isn’t really that visible from normal viewing distances.

That fuse wire is tricky, as there’s hardly any surface area on the wire for the superglue to grab onto, perseverance is required in bucket loads, was for me anyway. I won’t hold it against you if you either abandon the idea or manage to get it done in 30 seconds flat with no hassle what so ever. I used up about a metre of fuse wire for a job which only required a couple of cm, the rest was lost to the carpet.

Those are some interesting projects you have on the horizon, looking forward to seeing those come to fruition. It’s the 14XX for me next, if I ever get this coach completed.

Progress is very slow at the moment, I have been concentrating on adding the detailing parts to both ends of the coach. As I’ve not done anything like this before it took me a little longer than expected. Most of the additional time was spent searching the carpet on my hands and knees with my ‘optiviser’ strapped to my head searching in vain for all the bits I dropped on the floor.

Luckily, the detailing kit has spare end steps and handrails as not all the fallen were recovered. While fitting the detailing, I thought about how best to go about painting the coach body work. The coach has a number of small blemishes and scratch marks which will require painting over. To cut a long story short, I should have re-sprayed the coach after I had removed all the plastic mouldings and the body work ends were fairly flat, making it easier to mask off areas prior to painting.

Being an impulsive numpty, I decided instead to fit the brass parts first which I then found made it very difficult to mask off over all the uneven surfaces. This then led me to get annoyed and hand paint the ends instead, which I now regret as it looks a bit lumpy. Anyway, that’s my problem to resolve. I just wanted to point out that it’s a good idea to have a plan beforehand regarding paintwork and if its required then undertake it after all the parring off and hole drilling is completed but before you stick anything back on.

I intend adding working directional lamps to the driving end of the coach and at the front of the 14XX, so I have some questions as working out cable routing is required pretty soonish.

Hopefully, someone out there who follows this will have an answer or two, so here goes;

My plan is to use DCC Concepts lamps, they have white, red and combined white/red lamp lights and my questions relate to correct lamp positions at each end of the train for each direction of travel;

Q1: When the coach is driving, would the lamp be positioned on the central lamp iron just below the windscreen?

Q2: When the coach is trailing, where would the tail lamp be positioned, same place as above or on the lower lamp iron?

Q3: Would it be acceptable to use the same lamp position (central top) for driving and for a tail lamp. If so, then I can use the combi lit lamp.

Q4: Same questions apply to the 14XX, where would the lamps be positioned for both directions of travel?

I've included some slow progress pics...

Drivers end, bits to remove totals 2 lamp irons, 2 steps and 6 handrails. Also to remove the drivers cab door hand rails each side - not in view.

Just the lower lamp iron to go (I forgot it). 1 casualty circled red, as a result of the blade slipping and taking out the small moulding detail.

All brass detailing added. Shame about the dodgy paintwork!! I stole @MrWolf fuse wire idea for the electrical connector block.

Now the before, during and after for the loco end.

So far, so good.

Oh no, I've ar5ed the paintwork up. 

I did say that I would postpone the interior work until the glazing arrived. However, no sooner than I posted that announcement and in the post arrived the ModelU passengers and driver. So me being me, I immediately painted up up one of the passengers to see how it might look in the carriage. It transpires that the passengers would probably fit better at 1/87 (HO scale) as the seating, armrests etc seem to be a little under scale compared to the 1/76 scale figures. 

I also experimented with printing some vintage GWR seating pattern onto a sticky label and then applied that to one of the long bench seats, just to see how it might look. I think it looks alright and I've made the decision that it's worth the effort of covering all the seating using this method.

No he hasn't been stabbed in the chest, it's meant to be a cravat! You can see how much higher his leaning arm is above the arm rest.

Should still be fairly visible through the new glazing when fitted and with the roof on.

Couldn't resist messing about.

There's a rumbling, grinding sound from under the cab floor which requires further investigation.

Or in B&W.

8 hours ago, MrWolf said:

Below is what I have in mind tor the 5A fusewire, those little jumper cables are moulded on at present:

Ah ha, finally the great reveal for the fuse wire, that should look pretty good. There's probably even a few more uses for it for cables etc within the driving cab.

I made the decision to postpone continuing with the interior detailing until the glazing from Shawplan arrives, I ordered it yesterday. I just wasn’t happy with the SE Finecast stuff. I need the glazing to understand how I can insert the panelling beneath the windows. I also ordered some much thinner profile sheets of wood cladding (0.5mm instead of 2mm thick) which should make things easier to fit and work with.

While waiting, I shall revert to the Dart kit of detailing parts and make a start on the exterior embellishments which adorn the cab front and rear end of the coach. This will first involve very carefully removing the plastic moulded detailing on the Airfix coach ends. New chisel blades will be inserted into their appropriate handles and I will adopt the upmost concentration to avoid any slips of the blade and the resultant gouges into the bodywork. Hopefully, I will then have something resembling @MrWolf work from Aston on Clun pg 294.

4 minutes ago, longchap said:

Good old Milk Marketing Board with their third pint school rations!

Poor old Stan Shorthouse was born far too early to benefit from his daily intake of vitamin D and as a consequence developed a severe case of rickets "couldn't stop a pig in a passage" they would say. That's my story as to why he measures 5' tall in his socks.

14 minutes ago, chuffinghell said:

Being dyslexic I first read that as Stan Shortar5e 😂

He answers to both, as he's deaf in one eye.

1 hour ago, chuffinghell said:

Is the same figure available in HO scale? or would that be against the law

That's a thought Chris, I checked and its available in HO. I think as I have the OO driver on order I will wait and see what he looks like with shorter legs.

I already have a name for him (GWR driver Stan Shorthouse) 😄

Just to illustrate further Robs earlier point on the height compromise required for the driver figure to enable him to see where he's going.

This is a ModelU signal man used to represent the driver, the figure is 24mm tall.

Front view, using same figure. Looks like up to 4mm will need to be lost in the leg dept. to get an acceptable height as seen in image below.

Top of peaked cap seems to be just below top of windscreen, which means adapted figure of driver will need to be 20mm tall approx.

10 hours ago, MrWolf said:

Allowance is made with the control column castings to put them at the right height in the window, but we are going to need to shorten our driver's legs quite a bit otherwise his head will be above the window.

I've ordered the passengers and driver and when they arrive, I will conduct my prognosis on the driver and the best outcome for him regarding surgery. 

Initially, I'm thinking to put the cut line across his legs just below where his right hand ends, remove around 2mm and then re-join with the aid of some filler to blend it all in. His left arm may also require surgery to align the drivers hand with the controls.

6 hours ago, MrWolf said:

Further inspiration from @MAP66's Tyteford Halte thread has seen the luggage compartment door installed. I've done it slightly differently because of the materials I have and to show that there's more than one way to skin a cat*

 

It also helps illustrate how the "doorways" in the partitions are tapered slightly. Airfix had to do this or they would never have got the body out of the mould.

Looking good Rob, I prefer your version of the luggage compartment door mounted onto the tapered fillet. What’s your take at the driving cab end, as I’ve seen images with what looks like a single door and also with a double door? Also, what to do for doors in the small vestibule area where passengers enter the carriage?

7 hours ago, MrWolf said:

I was going to fill the gap at the sides but I won't until I've devised a cunning method of refitting the roof retaining spigots which are part of the original glazing of which more anon.

To secure the roof I’m thinking about experimenting with some tiny magnets I have.