MAP66

When you have the dynamo and what goes with it fitted, would you mind posting a picture of it. I can't work out what I have in terms of the cast bits as they're a bit blobby. The actual dynamo looks OK but not sure which bits are meant to go with it, or maybe I have something missing? Thanks Mark

You must have experienced a sense of pride and achievement after that successful test run, nice job 👍 I have also experienced success today, after managing to unstick all the offending parts and re-attach them in their correct places without suffering any casualties. I'm thinking its grey primer time next, as you previously suggested, for all the underframe detailing and the bogies. I will need to mask of the carriage wheels first as I don't fancy trying to prize them out of the bogies again, chances are I will break something and I've been lucky so far. Then its rodding time!!!

This might be a solution for the destination boards http://www.precisionlabels.com/sl12.html They can print your choice of destination (only 12 characters though) so ATSON ON CLUN would need to be abbreviated somehow. For me it would be TYTEFORD HT. There is also some additional info on number of boards and where located on the auto coach.

For anyone following this build, I have now corrected my post of 19th March pg17 re. the moulded plastic 'V' hangers to avoid anyone else making the same mistake, Thank you again @MrWolffor getting us all back on track 🙂

Apologies for not replying sooner, I’ve only just finished banging my head against the wall. Good thing is, as soon as you stop you feel so much better 😖 B*gger, I thought using the moulded ‘V’ hangers was going to work, unfortunately I hadn’t contemplated the battery box located drivers end which would be in the way of the bogie. Well I was 50% there as the Loco end is OK. That’s what makes us better modellers, as you have already solved it and removed the offending articles and put them back in their correct locations. All without stamping on it and chucking it in the bin. Your explanation as to what was wrong and how you went about putting it right was crystal clear to me (particularly number 6), I only wish I could say the same about the diagrams in the Dart Castings kit. That’s a fine chisel blade you have there, I have one similar and will need to fetch it and adopt likewise surgery to put mine right. I do remember putting copious amounts of superglue gel when attaching my ‘V’ hangers so I may not be as successful in getting them unstuck – but that’s for tomorrow or when I feel brave enough to take on the task.

Your fix for the 'V' hanger works just as well, I thought about doing it that way, but leaving the outer brass hanger in place isn't noticeable or won't be when painted. Now I have to confess that I have now reached the stage on the underframe where I'm stumped. It's brass rod and single hangers time and I haven't a scooby where to start on that, no matter how many times I study the dodgy drawings. I guess, the best bit would be to fit the battery boxes, then the dynamo and see what space you have left to work with? Any thoughts...

I am now tackling the brake ‘V’ hangers and for the outermost one of each side, as I previously mentioned, I am utilising the retained plastic moulded ones which are part of the truss frame. The brass ‘V’ hangers are from fret 1 and there are 2 of them. When removed from the fret and folded along the etch lines they are ready to receive the cross shafts. I followed the instructions here under item 3.3 (r) and with reference to fig 6/6a and 7. The images below show that I have fitted the cross shafts as per shown in the aforementioned figure drawings. It was then a case of gluing the base of the ‘V’ hanger with cross shafts previously glued in place onto the underside of the underframe. The outside ‘V’ hanger of both assemblies fits hard up against the moulded plastic truss ‘V’ hanger (they are the same height) and done this way, as the brass is very thin, when all painted in will not be noticeable. The below images will show what I mean. This is the way I have done it, utilising the existing hangers results in not everything in the exact locations as shown in the drawings but it works for me. If you prefer, the moulded plastic hangers can be removed and the brass ‘V’ hanger assemblies can be positioned exactly as the drawing shows. I have also found a home for the angle iron 'V' hanger, I think its correct? Hopefully its made clear below;

Ah ha, you've started on the coach interior. Looking good so far, I've been looking forward to getting the paints out for that stage. Before that though, I'm still lurking underneath putting in the two sets of brake 'V' hangers and cross shafts. Should have something on that front to post tomorrow. Oh, and I think I may have sussed where that single angle iron 'V' hanger goes 🤔

Nice to hear from you Chris, Maybe if I pull this off you might open that box again? How's it going over at Warren Branch?

well done for getting them assembled, I found it a bit tedious but I do have sausage fingers. Are you going to fit them to the coach last along with the corner steps? I think they could easily be damaged if fitted now. Speaking of which, I was in two minds as to use epoxy resin or continue with super glue gel. The gel has bonded the brass and white metal very securely to the plastic underframe so far and as there is a fairly large brass flat surface for the gel to adhere to and bond to the underframe, I think that I've just convinced myself - superglue gel it is.

Yes, I needed a shoe horn to make it all fit in 😄 I kept the original bogies to keep the cost down and also after discovering that they could accommodate P4 wheels without any modifications. Just out of interest, do you know if the comet ones are just cosmetic side frames. My auto coach is also Airfix as it has it stamped onto the underframe, not sure of its actual age though. While I'm about it, would you know of suitable buffer replacements (sprung) if possible? Thanks Mark

It’s great to hear that a few of you are now following with interest and may even take one of these on for themselves (no pressure on me then to get this right) Also important to mention again that this is the way I’m going about it, you can add the detailing in any order you like. The way I’ve gone about it works for me and I’m attempting to highlight any confusing stages within the instructions so that others are not put off by having a go, like I was a few years back. This is a good opportunity to also thank everyone for all the likes and additional comments, especially@MrWolfwho has more or less now caught up with me in the build. Also thanks to @Neal Ball who has also supplied some good reference material, keep it coming I say. So, we press on again and still on the underframe but now at the opposite (Drivers end) and its busy down there with a lot to cram in. So as before, check bogie clearances before and after each stage. We start at item 3.3 (g) which are the two cast (not brass) parking brake ‘V’ hangers. One of the ‘V’ hangers is cast with the parking hand brake screw attached which threw me for a bit, as I was looking for two identical hangers as shown in fig. 11 which does not show the hand brake screw. Fig 6a shows the brake hangers with hand brake screw in place. The cast parts will need a bit of sharpening up with a file and so will the ‘T’ shaped cross shaft which locates between the hangers. I found that I had to remove some of the metal base and front edge of the brake hangers to allow them to locate correctly hard up against the front of the sole bar, same process as at the loco end. The next step is covered under item 3.3 (h) the plate hangers and is a real pain. The plate hangers are brass and are item 1 from fret 2 but they need to be marked out and cut as shown in fig. 9. Apparently, due to an error on the etch. Well, if they know about it, Dart Castings have had many, many years to correct it – poor show. I sought of nipped away at the areas to be removed with various tools, made a bit of a pig’s ear of it, but eventually got the job done. I found the best way to fit the plate hangers was to loose fit the cross shaft first in order to gauge the width apart for the two hangers. Fig 11 is rubbish and gives no clue on how they should be installed to the underframe, some idea is provided by reference to fig (6a) but that is still not entirely clear. Look at the images below which show how I fitted the plate hangers, as too difficult to describe in words. I would also recommend studying the images below to see how I fitted the cross shaft with the brass etch links instead of trying to get your head around the fig. 10 drawing.

That’s looking good and you have the couplings fitted, I can imagine your completed pimped up auto coach in all its splendour sat at the platform. I managed to assemble one set of steps and have offered it up to where I think it should be positioned. For some reason, when I started this a few years back, I thought the steps would stick out too far but its not the case. Thanks to your testing, we now have conclusive proof otherwise. Back to the build, I said that I would try and stick to the sequence of assembly within the instructions and now that we know about the passenger steps, I have decided to fit these last as well as the corner and cab steps. As much handling of the underframe is still required, I feel it wise to leave these vulnerable detailing items to last. As previously mentioned, the passenger steps can still be assembled at this stage but I am not fitting them to the body until last. So we re-join at item 3.3 (f) the last paragraph of this stage covers the detailing required to the underside of the underframe at the Loco end. This has less detailing than at the drivers end, so I thought let’s start with the easier end first. The instructions quote under last para of item 3.3 (f) “The auto rod ‘V’ hanger (item 2 of fret 2) is fitted at the locomotive end”. So that’s that ‘V’ hanger identified and it is also stamped into the base of the part and with ref to fig.13 to show what goes where. I proceeded as follows; With loco end bogie in place mark the extent of rotation available for the bogie left and right, you want to retain this movement as much as possible after the detailing parts are fitted, then remove bogie. Now remove item 2 from fret 2 (the ‘V’ hanger) and fold at the etched lines. The number 2 will be facing upwards when fitted. With a small piece of blu tac on the base of the hanger, offer into position (without glue) under the screw coupling retaining spring with the slope angle of the hanger facing to the front of the coach end. Ensure the front base of the hanger is hard up against the internal lip of the sole bar. Do not remove the internal lip in order to gain more space, other wise the auto coupling (cast part) will not locate correctly. Now refit the bogie and test for movement, if movement is unaffected then remove bogie and glue hanger in place, I used superglue gel as it gives a few more seconds to position stuff. If the bogie fouls against the back of the hanger then some material can be removed from the front of the bogie frame and/or the front base of the hanger. In my case, the coach is not destined for tighter radius curves so although the bogie movement is slightly less, it’s not a problem for me. Now we refer to stage 3.3 (m) and still fig.13 to fit the correct (A28 or A30) in my case A30 cross shaft. The cross shaft is a cast part and will need a bit of filing prep work before fitting into the hanger. Take note of the crank positions when fitting. Next, fit the auto coupling which is another cast part. There are 2 of them and I couldn’t identify if they were the same or do they differ slightly for each end? Any way, I fitted one of them after some prep filing. The angled part fits over the front of the solebar, I did my best to get the correct position by referring to fig.13 & 14 of the instructions. For the real prototypical modeller, I would recommend referring to images of the real thing. The final confusing item to fit to complete this stage is a linkage represented by item 7 from fret 2. I bent it at the etch line and you can refer to image below to see my interpretation of how I think it should go. I should mention that for the loco end I am leaving the steam and vacuum hoses off for now. As I intend the coach and 14XX to be permanently coupled I am working on a solution for these hoses to be connected to the loco in a flexible way. So here are the images for the loco end underframe detailing.

Much appreciated on the measurements and taking the time to sketch it out. I’m going to see if I can finish assembling the brass steps and compare finished dimensions. More importantly, see if they would foul against the platform edging. If they do, I guess I will just fit to one side of the coach seeing as only one side will be in view.

Really depends on the species of tree your modelling, for example If you look back to pg 7 of this thread and my October 2nd 2022 posting there is detail there on the Oak Tree. For the silver birch, I used a different scatter material, details on pg 5 and my posting dated 21st July 2021 provides more detail. I haven't had much success with the foliage netting stuff, apart from cutting it up and using it for sprawling weeds, climbing ivy etc. I need to experiment more on that front. Try getting hold of Gordon Gravatt's book on modelling trees Part 1, covers deciduous trees. Hope that helps.

That looks like excellent work, I hope my commentary was helpful, even though it’s a bit long winded in places. It’s hard to get the balance right to suit all. I’m writing this with me in mind as a novice and if I had to follow the necessary steps myself. Remember to put your screw link couplings in, they need to be fitted before you can proceed any further with the underframe detailing. Glad you mentioned the glazing as I will be replacing it with the below flush glazing kit from SE Finecast, the instructions say that the A30 had flusher fitting windows than the glazing fitted to the model. I’m intending to paint the interior of the coach like you, add some passengers and attempt some lighting. I’m going for late 1930’s vibe to fit in with Tyteford Halte. Do you have any info on GWR coach interior colour schemes for this time period? Thankfully, you can clearly see the plastic passenger steps on your model as mine went in the bin after chopping them off. Its good that others will now be able to see what I was describing in the previous post. Which leads me onto my second question; Would you be able to measure and let me know how far the plastic steps protrude out from the side of the underframe. Thanks and much appreciated.

Preparation of the underframe – Removal of passenger steps, vacuum cylinders and battery boxes First decide which version you are modelling, diagram A28 or A30. Differences between the two are briefly explained in the instructions. I have decided upon the A30 as the original Airfix model is more suited to diagram A30. Next, decide if you want to retain the plastic moulded passenger steps located each side of the underframe. The detailing kit includes a brass fret containing all the parts for more detailed steps but I found them very fiddly to assemble. Another point to consider, which I am unable to confirm at this stage: would the brass steps foul on any platform edges as I think they may protrude out a little more than the moulded plastic steps. I will not be able to confirm either way until I fit the brass steps to the underside of the underframe and test for clearances. Unfortunately, me being me, I chopped the plastic steps off first and discarded them before attempting to assemble the brass step replacements. Learning from my mistake, I would recommend attempting the brass steps first and if you are unable to assemble them, then you still have the option of retaining the plastic steps. I will be able to report later in the build if I am able to attach the brass steps and if they clear the platform edge. Having explained the above we shall continue with the removal of the plastic moulded steps and the procedure is covered under item 2 (b) and with reference to figure 1 of the supplied instructions. The only tricky element is that you will have to cut through where the steps meet the truss rod as they are moulded together at this point. I managed to achieve this with a new cutting blade in my Swann Morton, also a new chisel blade, a graving tool, a razor saw and a degree of care and attention. Slow and steady is the aim here as you are at risk of breaking the truss rod if your too heavy handed. Don’t give yourself a pat on the back just yet, as you need to adopt the same procedure for removal of the two battery boxes, item 2(a), (note the prototype had three battery boxes which are included in the kit) but even more care and attention is required here, as they are also moulded to the truss rods and the rods are very vulnerable to breakages. It is possible to remove the batteries though without breakages, as I managed it. However, don’t despair if you manage to break a truss rod as they can be repaired with a splint made from a thin strip of plasticard glued to the non-viewed side of the truss rod, when painted black it would be unnoticeable. Tip supplied by Phil Parker when he covered this detailing kit as mentioned earlier in the thread. Next, we move onto removal of the two plastic moulded vacuum cylinders, still covered under item 2(a). For this, I made several cuts with a razor saw across the top of the dome going downwards towards the underframe and then removed the material bit by bit with side cutters. All remaining rough edges were cleaned up with a file afterwards. The instructions also state that under item 2(a) the moulded ‘V’ hangers need to be removed. I chose to ignore this and have left them in place. My reasoning for this as follows; Under item 3.3(f) the instructions quote “On the prototype the outer ‘V’ hanger of each pair of vacuum brake cross shafts ‘V’ hangers was located outside the truss rod….” As the original moulded ‘V’ hangers are part of the truss rod, they already appear or could be passed off to be the outside hanger of each pair. Confused? I thought so, don’t worry it will make more sense later, for now trust me and leave the moulded V hangers in place. Important Please Note Ignore the above paragraph, you only need to remove the 'V' hanger at the drivers End. The Loco end can remain in place. For reason why, please refer to @MrWolfpost of 27th March pg19. After all that you should have something resembling the image below. If that’s the case, well done, take a break, have a lie down and when we return, things will start to get interesting.

Time to blow the cobwebs off then and release the auto coach from the bucket of doom. Good that you enjoy a challenge as this will have some, nothing impossible though I feel. I will aim to post tomorrow how I went about preparing the underframe.

Nice one, big thumbs up from me 👍

Guilty as charged, when I heard the news I thought typical 😄 Anyway, mine will be better and perhaps it will even be completed before Dapol release their version 😄

Right let’s talk you through how far I got first time around. I first dismantled the auto coach by following the instructions in the detailing kit. There is some preparation work required to the underframe before you can start adding the detailing parts. At this stage it’s a good idea to identify one end of the coach from the other (see first image) I marked a ‘D’ for driving end on the underside of the underframe. The other end is where the loco is coupled up and referred to as the loco end in the instructions. Another way of identification, is by the step boards at each end of the coach. The shorter length steps are at the driving end and the longer at the loco end. The Wheels / Bogies I had the coach before I purchased the detailing kit and as I was converting to P4 gauge, I should have first tested to see if a set of P4 gauged wheels would fit within the bogie frames before buying the kit. I performed this test after buying the detailing kit and it was only by sheer chance that I was able to fit P4 wheels within the bogie frames without having to remove any material to make them wider. The original wheels were not fitted with any bearings and the clearance would have been too tight for me to fit any, so I left them out. It was a tight squeeze getting the P4 wheels in but they rotate freely without binding and there is still about 1/2mm side play.I tested it on the Tyteford Halte track and it ran smoothly along. However, there were no curves to negotiate, only the gentlest of S bends. Its difficult to comment at this early stage at to what would be the minimum radius that the auto coach could comfortably negotiate after all the detailing parts are fitted as they may/may not restrict the existing rotation of the bogies. In which case some additional side play of the wheels maybe of benefit to avoid derailment. If this is a concern for anyone with tighter radius curves then there is the option to omit or modify some of the detailing parts (particularly at the driving end) or perhaps for the more experienced modeller to build new bogie housings as Dart Castings also sell cosmetic side frames of which part numbers are listed in the instructions. I’m opting for the ‘suck it and see’ approach and using the original bogies. The only downside is, would it be acceptable for the more prototypical modeller? As the plastic moulded representations of the brake hangers and shoes are set far forward from the alignment of the wheels (see image) this would still be the case if you retained the original wheels. I’m OK with this for now, I may change my mind at some time in the future. The final step here is to remove the coupling pockets which are moulded as part of the bogie. I used a disc cutter in a mini drill to perform this task. Just to clarify that you would not be able to retain the existing tension lock couplings as they would foul up against all the underside detailing parts, which is why I opted for screw link couplings. My afterthoughts and comments on the above stage In hindsight, I wish that I had painted the bogies before adding the wheels, so whatever gauge your working to, I would recommend proceeding as follows after first removing the bogies from the underframe; 1. Remove the wheels. 2. Cut off the coupling pockets from both bogies. 3. Give the bogies a wash in mild detergent and use an old toothbrush or similar to get rid of any surface grease or oils, rinse and then dry thoroughly. 4. Spray the bogies with something like Halfords grey car primer, make sure you first mask off the insides of the wheel frames to prevent any paint clogging up the holes where the axle pivots locate. 5. Paint or spray paint the Bogies with something like ‘weathered black’ from Railmatch, leave the masking in place. 6. Then add the detail painting and weathering for the springs, brake shoes etc. 7. Finally, give everything a final spray of matt varnish to seal everything. 8. Remove masking and replace the wheels of your choice, I used P4 14mm diameter Mansell carriage wheels 18804 from Wizard Models. 9. Install couplings, I used screw link. 10. Replace bogie sets to underframe and give it a test run on a length of track. The next post will be covering the further preparation necessary of the underframe prior to fitting the detailing parts.

Well done for finding the kit, hopefully we can compare notes. I must confess that I first attempted this kit some years ago and promptly abandoned it after only spending a couple of hours on it, far too confusing for me at the time. I was prompted by an article in BRM (Oct 2018 pg 64-67) where Phil Parker took on the very same detailing kit. This feature had some step by step photographs but Phil sensibly opted to omit some of the detailing parts. I’m hoping to include all of them, if possible. Anyway, this is why the auto coach is already dismantled with screw link couplings fitted, coz that’s as far as I got last time 😖 This time around, I plan to provide a blow by blow account with images (perhaps with arrows pointing at things) to get this auto coach detailed as per the instructions. I may fail, but I will go down fighting never the less. So, with that in mind, my normal modelling service will resume shortly. I am still experiencing some technical issues!

Your right about some of those old kits, the auto coach detailing kit is quite a few years old now I think and in my opinion in dire need of a re-write on the instruction/diagram side. The white metal casts are quite good though with not too much flash. More importantly, they’re mostly identifiable, where to locate them is another matter. I watched Hornby A model World last night and in particular took interest in what’s involved with the relaunch of the Airfix Mark IX Spitfire 1/24th scale. Airfix staff test build the kits to see if they assemble correctly and that instructions make sense and are easy to follow. I see no reason why even the smallest model railway manufacturer shouldn’t follow this practice in their kits and photograph the various stages to include as part of the instructions. Some kit manufacturers for some reason still use very dated and badly printed line drawings – I note Keith’s recent experience with the fax number still on the instructions!

Thank you Mr Wolf kind Sir for your encouraging comments. I'm starting with the auto coach to diagram A30 as it has more in common with the Airfix model than the A28. I got that info from the detailing kit instructions. Speaking of which, I have now read for the umpteenth time and am still confused on various items. The instructions are fairly well written but the illustrations are a little unclear to me, especially the isometric with positions of all the rod hangers hmmm. I will approach with caution and very much look forward to numerous silly question exchanges 😄 Cheers Mark

Well, its about time I got back to Tyteford Halte and I thought that sticking something else on the track instead of the railcar would be a way to get back into the modelling, as all the scenery was completed months ago. Some time ago, I got hold of an old Airfix GWR auto-coach and a non-working class 14XX which I planned to modify and convert to P4 gauge. They had both sat patiently in a cupboard ever since, until now. At around the same time, I also purchased the High Level chassis kit for the 14XX and the DK1 auto coach detailing kit from Dart Castings. I am a complete novice when it comes to rolling stock and loco re-builds or detailing them, I’m more at home with scenery or building a kit with clear diagrams and step by step instructions. My kit building experience to date on the rolling stock front totals 2 plastic wagon kits built to P4 standards and with loco’s, zero. I therefore, declare myself a novice in this particular area of railway modelling. With that in mind, I thought it would be good to document the re-builds here and if all goes well they will feature on Tyteford Halte. For this to be a success, I will need help and I offer my advanced apologies for the quality of questions that I inevitably will subject you all to. I have no idea what these questions will be at this stage, only that I can hazard a guess that many will fall nicely into the Stupid Category, me being a novice an all. There will be several occasions I’m sure whereby the saying “there’s no such thing as a stupid question“ will be put to the test. That’s enough waffle for now and I leave you with images of the 2 donor vehicles prior to me destroying improving them. Get ready for those questions! 😖 The auto coach, shown already dismantled and with screw link couplings fitted at both ends. The non-running 14XX, looking a bit sorry for itself - thankfully, I only need the bodyshell.