MAP66

Guess what I did yesterday? Here’s a clue…

Yes, I visited the ‘Tivvy Bumper’ which is a static exhibit at the Tiverton Museum of Mid Devon Life, who knew that a class 14XX was so close. I certainly didn’t, until I came across it doing some research.

It became an invaluable visit and enabled me to get a few photos and measurements of the cab interior and some other areas of the loco as well. Unfortunately, 1442 was not fitted for auto workings but there was a wealth of other details which I was able to look at in close detail. I was ably assisted by my better half who was in charge of Vernier callipers, tape measure and clip board, while I was chief photographer. I’ll leave you today with a few images of the Tivvy Bumper…

There is a raised mezzanine walkway all around the the loco, museum staff kindly allowed me down to the track level to take some photos. I had to crouch down below the raised walkway to get this shot. In my keenness to get the next shot, I promptly forgot about the structure immediately above my noggin and stood up. Ouch!!! F*** It. That really hurt, and I was seeing stars. Luckily, nobody witnessed and I managed to style it out 🤕

An overall side view of 1442.

These are some of the interior cab details which I was after, at least I can make a start on that bunker wall now.

The firebox glow led has arrived and I have spent the last couple of days experimenting on how best to mount it to the non-viewed side of the backhead. For housing the led, I settled on using an etched box from a brass fret of accessory parts intended for a garden shed interior. I drilled a hole through the back of this for passing the 2 wire through and then glued the led in place within the box with some insulation to prevent the solder pads touching the brass surround.

The enclosure assembly was then glued in place to the reverse side of the backhead and wired up for a test (remembering to add the resistor which came with the led). Good, we get a nice orange glow which is what I was after. However, after inserting the backhead back into the cab, still more clearance was required to prevent the back of the enclosure fouling against the motor shaft during its range of up and down movement.

The enclosure box is only about 3mm deep and I can’t get it any shallower and I daren’t attempt to grind more off the motor shaft. The only alternative, to bring the backhead even further forward into the cab. I think I can get away with another 2mm at max before it will look odd.

So, I’m going to be spending a bit more time tweaking this until it looks right and when fitted there is no fouling of the motor shaft, wish me luck 🙂

In case your all wondering, I haven’t completely ruled out openable cab doors as yet. I have to crack this first, as I can only deal with one dilemma at a time 🤪

The reverse side side showing the brass enclosure glued on the back. Note also, the wedge of plastrut glued to the top of the backhead, its purpose to bring it forward into the cab.

How it all looks from the front. I painted everything inside the enclosure black, but not the led of course. The left hand gauge came off (due to all the handling) I have it safe in my special place for 'small parts which fall off which have not been lost to the carpet and are waiting to be stuck back on again when I get around to it' box.

Is it me or is it getting warm in here? I'm using a nano led (orange firebox glow) from Youchoos and all going well, I will be able to adjust the brightness once it is decoder driven as opposed to my set up here which is direct from the test track via crocodile clips. There is also a bit more detailing, as the linkage bar is now attached to the regulator handle and some 0.1mm copper wire has appeared to the right of the steam brake.

A tease of what will be visible through the side of the cab. I like the glow effect and I think this will be the viewing side.

Well, there's some ideas to mull over then. As I reach for my thinking cap, and while we are talking about cab interiors, does anyone have an idea of the detailing at the rear of the cab (the bunker end) I can't find any images online or in the books I have. Even if I only model the opening for the coal in the bunker wall, it would be good to get the detail right.

13 minutes ago, longchap said:

 

It sounds as if you're trying to open up as much of the cab as is practical to help interior visibility, so could you open the cab doors? Of note is that that the Hattons/DJM 14/48/58XX came with posable cab doors to help show off the interior.

 

 

 

That is something I was considering Bill, but haven't explored that possibility any further as yet. I would only actually need to model one side to have an openable cab door, as if and when I get the auto train running, it will only ever be viewed from one side only. At some point I will give it some further thought, a convincing working hinge arrangement would need to be devised first which might require a bit of head scratching. 

out of interest, would you know if cab doors would ever be open when GWR loco's where in motion? If not, I think that If I decide on a working cab door and manage to get it working, I would only have the cab door open for static cameo shots. I think the glow from the firebox should still be visible with cab doors closed, I'm looking forward to getting that working but haven't even ordered the flicker glow led yet. 

With a bit of perseverance, I managed to wrestle the two gauges and the bit which looks like a thermostat from their whitemetal home and have transferred them onto my backhead. I quite like how it turned out and I think all that filing was worth it in the end. Next on the list of things to do, will be to form an enclosure at the back of the fire box opening to house the flame flicker led. I have already ground down the motor spindle to create the space required and the backhead itself will be fitted slightly further into the cab space. This means the cab floor will be re-measured and version 2 will be constructed with Ibuprofen chequer plate!

Almost there now! Note to myself; hurry up and get that billy can painted up.

13 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

I spent ages painting the backhead for my 517, then fitted the miniscule full cab as per number 530.

 

Once the crew are in, you can barely see it, but I know it's there....😆

That's going to be the case with this as well. I plan to model the roof vent open, but even with that and the glimpse you get over the top of the cab doors you won't be able to see much at all. It was all in the challenge really and to see if I was up to it and it's true for me too, I'll know it's there and it puts a grin on my face 😁

I'm finally getting close to completing this stage of the cab interior. For the two gauges, I managed to remove one of the gauges from the white cast metal backhead which I think can be cleaned up and used. Hopefully, I can get the other one off as well without causing any damage to it. If this works, then I can drill a 0.4mm hole at the base of the gauges and push them onto the two wires sticking up at the top of the manifold. I stuck the water gauge back and gave it all a coat of smut. All that remains, apart from the gauges, are a funny looking thing which fits on top of the steam brake (could be a thermostat?) and lastly two linkage bars (left and right). The right hand one will be attached to the regulator handle and the left hand one remains bolted to the boiler front.

That's coming along very nicely Neal and thanks for the mention in your excellent blog re. my adventures in scratch building a backhead for the 14/48XX. Looking at that printed version of your backhead from your blog it looks far superior than the cast whitemetal one available for the 14XX, which is why I made the choice to have a go at making one myself using plastic and brass scraps. 

Cheers Rob, 

Yep, the tools look really impressive, amazing detail for such tiny objects. This is definitely a case of keeping them on the sprue for painting and only releasing them when I'm ready to stick them in place. 

52 minutes ago, longchap said:

Oh and don't forget the dented billy can on the shelf above the firebox door for the crew cuppas. 

You know me by now, I already have it on order along with the fireman 😄

Well, I'm still in the land of sillyness by continuing to entertain the idea of modelling the backhead. I'm not quite at the stage of inserting pencils up my nostrils and wearing my underpants on my head but todays modelling stint has brought me dangerously close and I feel that the men in white coats are getting closer to dragging me away!

That's the silly bit over and below is how the backhead looks at the moment, as you can see my sanity was tested by attempting to model the water gauge and the steam brake. I'm still smiling though and that's the main thing.

The water gauge was filled with Glue n Glaze which has dried clear and before this, all the insides where given a coat of brass colour paint. For the steam brake, I enlisted the help of a couple of very small signal pully wheels. I found a better and faster technique for making the tapered handles using Glue n Glaze instead of attempting to file to shape. 

I am now working out how much further I can go before I add the black paint, then some pipes and then pick out all the copper and brass work...

The water gauge is a bit crude, but still better than the cast whitemetal one. It's not glued to the boiler front as yet as some more bits need to be added. I had a quick count up and so far there are about 58 separate pieces to the backhead which all required some sort of fettling before fitting. There's probably at least another 30 separate bits to go and then of course, the rest of the cab interior.

Starting the water gauge by carving out the sight glass space on two pieces of plastrut angle. Just out of shot to the right are my underpants and 2 pencils on standby.

9 hours ago, MrWolf said:

hanks again to @MAP66 for the tip about tea dust, it certainly adds to the trunk and can be lightly sanded if t looks too coarse.

 

That's looking excellent , I knew you had it in yer Rob, just needed rooting out 😁

If your done with the wire, I would now suggest adding the sea foam next before the washes as the stalks will need grafting onto the wire using superglue gel and an accelerator. The join is then disguised by smoothing over with more gloop (filler). When all that's done give the white filler areas and all the florets of seafoam a dusting of grey primer. For my Oak, I then used a combination of rattle can chaos black (Citadel) and a very dark matt green and matt brown and sprayed the seafoam and some of the finer branches.

Then, For the washes as dark as you can get them. I use 2 colours german black brown and a very dark grey (almost black) and dilute them to consistency of milk and then load your brush and let the paint flow down the trunk and thicker branches starting from the top and working downwards. You may need several coats, the idea being to reach a stage where you can see all the bark detail nicely detailed with the paint in all the crevices. It's fine to use the brush to work the paint in as well if any parts are getting missed. For the finer branches you can just paint them starting from the tips and working back towards the trunk using the same colours straight from the pot or only slightly thinned down. 

Whatever method you adopt, when it's all dry you can see if you want to add any further detail in places on the trunk or larger branches buy adding small blobs of filler, good for broken branch stumps, larger cracks, crevices etc or more root detail. I try to have a good colour reference photo of the tree I am modelling to refer to.

If your happy with how it looks after the washes, then you can start adding in the various colours using paints working mainly on the raised areas, try and keep the recesses darker where the washes have collected. I used dry brushing, normal painting and weathering powders to get the desired effect I was after.

Moving on from the last post, Ibuprofen could be the answer, not just for aches and pains but also for modelling chequer plate. You are also more likely to have a packet of these in the bathroom cabinet. Grateful for your opinions, I think I prefer the foil pattern on the Ibuprofen tablet strips over the previous lot.

You get 3 strips in a pack, the red section highlights the useable bit which is about 72 x 14mm, so quite a bit.

For comparison, the first version above and the Ibuprofen version below. I have experimented with a sooty look.

Going back to the cab interior and continuing with detailing of the back head. I have been adorning it with further embellishments, mainly old bits of plastic sprue filed to shape. We now have the manifoldy bit which sits atop the boiler front, complete with valves but still minus the gauges. There are a couple of important assemblies still to attempt, that being the water gauge to the left of the  regulator and steam brake to the right. Both are mounted on the front of the boiler and then the various pipes can be added. I will need to paint it all first though before I add the pipes.

Slowly getting there!

30 minutes ago, phil_sutters said:

The ones with the spaces are usually those with a week's supply on the strip - so 7 tablets 1 space.

I thought this deserved further investigation, so I took a rummage through the medical supplies and found that there are subtle differences in the relief on the foil strips. Obviously differs through manufacturer and type of tablet. I found a potential candidate for the chequer plate, that being Irbersartan 150mg tablets. You can get a couple of a 3cm square pieces of foil from each strip which is more than enough for the chequer plate sections of the cab interior.

I was intending to make the floor again anyway, the first version was really just a trial piece to see how it would all fit together within the body shell. I will definitely need to grind more off the motor spindle to allow some room to install the flame effect led. I intend to build a tiny enclosure on the back of the fire box opening to house the led and deflect the glow into the cab.

Anyway, below is the foil painted up to look a bit rusty, I think it can definitely work as chequer plate in a cab interior and possibly other applications as well. When I use it for the cab, it will be a coal black colour with some gun metal dry brushed over the top. 

Thanks again to @phil_sutters for the idea.

17 minutes ago, phil_sutters said:

Would the foil packaging from pills /tablets work I wonder? Some of the tablets, my wife and I have to take, have blank sections in the strips, where there are nice squares of diamond pattern foil. How they scale out I am not sure. Different tablets have slightly different patterns. If you are fortunate enough to not need medication, maybe a friend or relative has something useable.

Thanks for the idea Phil, we have tablets in the house' I'll check tomorrow to see if any of the foil can be used. If it can then that's a great tip.

I managed a little more on the cab interior today, not a lot as it was high concentration stuff and I chose to stop on a high after fitting the regulator handle. Yes. it was good to give the brain a rest after todays stint, oh for a mini lathe and all the filling it would save. It wasn't all modelling though, half the time spent was hunting for stuff which I could use to resemble pipes, handles, dials and all the other gizmos and gadgets found in the cab. 

So in summary, at the end of todays mini session, I managed to extend the handle to the fire box lever mechanism, add a representation of the shelf above the fire box opening (the one the billy can sits on) and of course the regulator with handle. I made the regulator by filing down to shape a scrap piece of brass fret onto which was glued a shaped piece of plastic micro rod for the handle section. 

Regulator fitted, the rounded hump on the regulator shaft has a hole through it on the prototype as this is where the linkage bar is attached which then connects the regulator to all the rods and gubbings below deck and eventually back to the cab in the auto coach. I will be attempting my version of the linkage bar 🤪

18 minutes ago, longchap said:

I know exactly how your feel Mark and well done for your honest humour. Your posts always make me smile 😀

Thanks Bill,

I try and keep it light humoured where possible and its good to know that my wit puts a smile on your face (hopefully others too) 😄

Thanks Rob, that's a nice message to read first thing in the morning, You know, my first train was a painted block of wood  with cotton reels for wheels, I'm smiling while typing this, I like to think that my interpretation of realism has moved on since then 😄 

I’ve been carrying on with the cab interior and have now made a start on the back head, using plasticard and other bits. I do have the ‘Mainly Trains’ backhead MT325 which is a cast white metal part. However, the fire box doors are shut on this and I wanted them open to show the flame flicker! This maybe another foolish endeavour but so far, its proving to be way more enjoyable than fitting wipers to wheels. I’m also banking on a good coating of paint to disguise a multitude of bodges within the confines of the cab.

The first WIP image of my attempt of modelling the backhead with fire box doors open. The Mainly Trains cast part is shown on the left for comparison. I have adapted some MSE point rodding cranks to resemble the lever mechanism for opening and closing the fire box doors. This still needs extending upwards on the left for the handle. Still lots more bits and bobs to fabricate and add on.

To follow on from the last post (which means I’m back in 2024 for another year of modelling – Happy New Year folks) but alas, it was not a good start for the electricals.

I found that the wipers for the front drivers where not a success. This was due to the pb wire being too short, meaning I could not get the required contact tension with the wheel rims. So, scrap that and turn to Plan B. Which would involve going top side again and finding a solution for attaching the wipers for the front drivers similar to that used for the rear drivers.

Between the drivers, I glued a small piece of pcb strip onto the outside of the side frame. Onto this, I soldered a length of pb wire with its end providing a bit of contact tension onto the top of the front drivers. From the pcb strip I then soldered on a length of wire cable back to the first pcb strip. This would now allow electrical pick up from wheels on all three axles.

Went to test it, more disappointment! The rear driver is now suffering from wheel slip and loss of traction. The culprit seemed to be the electrical wire connecting the two pcb strips which was preventing the driving wheels on the motor axle from being in full contact with the track. Somehow, the middle axle bushes were no longer dropping to the correct level within the horn block guides. I put this down to the tension introduced by the electrical wire either pushing or being in contact with the free vertical travel of the gearbox.

I was fed up fathing about with trying to resolve this, so instead I removed the front driver wipers and electrical wires and the traction improved. There is no Plan C! as this one has beaten me, so electrical pick up will be confined to the rear driver and trailing wheels and unfortunately not the front drivers as originally planned.

I decided to take my mind of this disappointment by tackling the bodyshell instead. A change of scenery and where better to start than the cab interior. It was about time I started to look at where and how to fit a sound decoder anyway and the only two space options available seem to be within the bunker or under a false cab floor.

Testing the false floor option first, I quickly made up a cab floor from embossed styrene sheet and trial fitted within the cab. This eliminated the under the floor option as there was not adequate room for the decoder. So, the decoder will be destined for the bunker then!

Start of the cab floor, the closer edge is the fire box end and the wall at the back forms one side of the bunker. The other side of the bunker is the body shell itself and when fitted together there is a void for the sound decoder.

Cab floor inserted, showing the bunker space available. I didn't have any proper chequer plate for the cab floor sections near the doors, so I used a couple of drain covers .

From this angle you can see that the motor spindle almost encroaches into the cab and a little more may need to be ground off to allow the backhead to fit. The motor is at its lowest position and the spindle still clears the floor, so that's all good.

Happy New Year Rob and Miss R and all the best for 2024!

Happy New Year Chris and all the best for 2024!

Hello folks, I trust you all had a good Christmas day and are still enjoying the festive Season?

I popped back to the workbench today as I wanted to crack the electrical pick up problem with a satisfactory solution for the wipers and where best to site them on the chassis. While looking at the chassis again, I took the opportunity to touch up the chipped paintwork around the wheels and parts of the chassis and to glue on the wheel balance weights.

Now here’s a thing to ponder while munching on yet another mince pie. Does anyone out there have an effective solution to prevent the paint from chipping off, which they wouldn’t mind sharing? Especially from around the wheel rims where it’s particularly vulnerable to chipping. I also found that just general handling of the chassis was enough for any raised areas of paintwork to rub off very easily. Before any painting, I had previously prepared all NS and brass surfaces by giving them a thorough wash and rinse and when dry a coat of etch primer. Still didn’t help though, the paint still comes off, even after a coat of matt varnish. I have used acrylic paints, should I be using enamel paints on metals instead?

Going back to the electricals, I found some pcb board, copper clad sleepers and a few lengths of phosper bronze wire 0.35mm diameter and I got to work. I found that I could glue a strip of pcb board vertically to the side frames in the gap behind the rear sandboxes. I dealt with the trailing rear wheels first and soldered a length of PB wire to the pcb strip which had a slight bend introduced to provide a little resistive tension against the tops of the rear wheels.

Next, the rear drivers. Another length of PB wire was soldered to the same pcb strip above the previous length and slightly below the top of the rear driver wheel. The other end of this length of wire then rests on the top of the rear driver wheels with enough resistive tension to remain in contact with the wheels through its vertical movement.

A different approach was required for the front drivers and I decided to fit the pick ups from the underside of the chassis. Two pieces of copper clad sleeper were glued to the underside of the front spacer, onto which was previously soldered an angled piece of pb wire. The pb wire acts on the inside edge of the inner rim of the wheel. Next, I will need to test each wheel pick up separately to see if they all perform without any issue, progress pics below…

Balance weights glued on and crankpin nuts  have had a drop of blue threadlock applied. Note the pcb strip glued in place behind rear sandbox.

PB wire soldered to pcb strip. This takes care of electrical pick up for the trailing wheels and rear drivers.

Closer view of underside showing pick ups for front drivers using a combination of cut down copper clad sleepers and short lengths of angled pb wire. The lower assembly is still being clamped down until glue cures.

2 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

 

Thats interesting Bill, I was looking at those the other day.... my thoughts were to order them as HO, rather than OO - in a similar way to Mark @MAP66 at Tylteford Halte with his recent Autocoach.

 

To get a good loading, you will need a few packs.... the Pendon people would be good to mix into the carriage as well.

Seasons Greetings to all,

Certainly, for the autocoach, the HO 1/87 passengers are a better fit for the interior seating and for the standing driver. I had already ordered seated 1/76 scale passengers before I decided to try the smaller 1/87 scale, they will now be saved and used later for platform seating etc.

ModelU are quite expensive and I found a few appropriate seated figures from the following site  https://www.scale3d.co.uk/ which are considerably cheaper, some of the figures are also available in 1/87 scale and 1/76. Here's a link to a couple of them but there are a few others, but mostly male figures https://www.scale3d.co.uk/products/dsp178-male-sitting https://www.scale3d.co.uk/products/dsp188-older-female-with-basket-sitting .

I find the print quality to be pretty good as well for the price. I hope you don't mind but I have included a couple of images below from a modern era park diorama showing their figures. Judge the print quality for yourself, I think its pretty good. The female in the first image is even wearing glasses, amazing really!  I have no affiliation with Scale3D, just a happy customer who has saved a few quid.