WisTramwayMan

I'd like 66746, partly as I took a photo of it leaving Middleton Towers on a sand train just over a couple of years ago, but will hang fire a month or so until feedback on this second batch reaches rm web...

Totally agree. Just hope Heljan can make it - or perhaps get it made would be more accurate - with better attention to assembly and quality control than 2 major retailers' recent high profile commissions. If they can do that, then it has every chance of being a superb loco.

It's not just the Leader I'm looking at, it's the Fell as well, where KR are asking you to sign up to the payment plans at the moment. I confess that, without checking, I'm not sure of the deadline though. Re the livery debate, what KR could do with the liveries for the Leader (Grey/Black/Green) are not dissimilar to what Hornby are doing with the forthcoming model of 10000, with versions in Battleship Grey (which it actually wore), Battleship Grey with "British Enterprise" nameplates (which although cast, were never carried in public) and LNER Apple Green (which I believe was only applied for a publicity shoot). Personally, I see no issue with the alternatives being offered, and indeed I've got 2 different ones on pre-order. Likewise, I see no issue with what KR are likely proposing for the Leader; guess I'd have a 36001 in aluminium/grey (as per actually trialled) and then consider a.n.other livery for a second, preferably either lined black or lined green with early crests (numbered 36002 and 36003). I guess you could argue that neither is historically accurate; 36002 was virtually complete, but never ran, and 36003 I'm not totally sure, but frames only ? Anyway, I wouldn't mind, I'd be perfectly happy to run them as a "what if" alongside Bulleid Pacifics etc, etc. I think what I CAN say though is that were these being retailed in a traditional manner - place order, maybe a deposit of say £30 per loco (as per the Rails/Locomotion Dapol commissions) with balance payable when the models are in stock and ready to despatch, AND with a track record of a successful GT3 behind it, then I'd be highly tempted by a Fell + a fleet of 3 Leaders (in different numbers/liveries).

I would love a Leader - but am cautious of going via the crowd-funding route. For two reasons - the sustainability of the company involved (although I hasten to add that, as far as I know, there is no reason why this company should follow the fate of a previous well-known one), the second I would actually like to see deliveries to customers and subsequent reviews of GT3 before people are forced to part for their money on staged payments for a subsequent model. I think I've seen a post somewhere by KRM that the pay-by-instalment route is popular as it allows people to spread payments out. My answer would be no, certainly not with me, or anyone else I know, not in advance of even engineering prototypes of the model they're paying towards, and no previous delivered models to point to as the proof of their ability. Nothing's better than actually seeing a model, and reading the reviews, if not of that model, then of a manufacturer's previous efforts, before financially committing. Even established manufacturers can produce a dog. I think what I'd ideally like to see is the deadline to commit for The Fell extended until after the first production models of GT3 are received by customers, and various reviews no doubt left, either on RM Web or, as an example, YouTube. If GT3 then arrives and gets the thumbs-up from all concerned, then certainly, from a personal viewpoint, a Fell and a Leader it is. If this venture is as well funded as it is supposed to be, and the proprietor has confidence in what he's offering, then why not produce to the amount of pre-orders received, plus, for example, 250 ? If necessary at a higher price (+10/20% ?) for the stock models. Thus the crowd funders will, all being well, be happy, and receive a discount for having committed at the outset. The manufacturer will have a showcase for his abilities. And those sceptical or cautious can then wait in the knowledge that there will at least be SOME (hopefully) available once the first production models have been tested and reviewed. And at that point, they will hopefully have a track record that they are proud to point to.

Agreed ! I've just done exactly the same.....

Update - the steps eventually turned up late on Monday afternoon, and were affixed, so he now, at last, has a second complete Dapol/Rails Terrier to go with the predominantly Hornby litter....

If it helps, a couple of weeks ago some Rails staff themselves were asking people with missing detail that, if they sent the replacement parts out, would they be prepared to fit them themselves (which itself implies that they're not confident about the ones they have in stock). I myself would say you've got to make an assessment - if it's something you are 100% confident you can do yourself, and indeed it has been suggested by Rails themselves, then do - protecting yourself with a covering letter to Rails - but if not 100% then back it goes. Re the next batch, one of them is "Brighton", where both Rails and Hornby have versions releasing in due course. I know which one I'd order if I was ordering from scratch....

Also in the operating instructions that come with the model it shows it as an 8-pin socket.

My 6145 arrived a day ago, courtesy of Derails. Superb service, checked by retailer, well packed, 24hr delivery by DPD, loco A1. No bits detached, broken or missing (unlike a friend's recent experiences with a large retailer's canine commission). How a purchase SHOULD be. Looking forward to giving it a good run now...

Update on my friend's Terrier saga: The replacement for the original 643 (which had missing detail) got returned as well due to broken smokebox dart, the third one ( ! ) I'm told appears A1 in all respects and runs well. On Bodiam, however, which has the cab steps missing, he agreed with Rails that a set of replacement steps he could affix himself were sent ASAP. Over two weeks, and several e-mails and phone calls with various staff later, these still haven't materialised. Whether Rails or Royal Mail, don't 100% know, but given the initial issues with both models he is far from impressed. I understand they've now promised to despatched them first class, within 24 hours; it'll be interesting to see if this happens or whether the "issues" with this locomotive continues. Update to follow. He is also giving serious thought to cancelling his remaining 2 (both due in the second batch) due to the list of issues he's had so far.

For the majority of shops, hopefully, true. Bit more of a problem for the Rails Terrier, though, in that it's only with Rails of Sheffield (except of course for the Locomotion model) so for the vast majority mail order will be the order of the day. I agree, though, that given the apparent number of faults, if I lived near the shop and wanted one I'd definitely go to the shop in person and sort through the stock until I found a good one.

Or even if they did, they've been/are prevented from going there due to the lockdown / social distancing rules. The shop's probably shut, mind you, for the same reason. So mail order's the only game in town.

One wonders if it is coincidental that the second batch due at the end of May appears to be running late - 100% sort at Dapol in Chirk possibly ?

I confess I've had issues with Hornby buffers before, but nothing on the Terriers. Last issue I had with a Hornby item was one of their Peckett 0-6-0s arriving with the cab steps missing, both sides - I contacted the retailer and asked if they had component spares (they didn't), ditto Hornby, so a return and exchange it was. A shame, as the loco appeared otherwise perfect.

I was musing further on the issues with the Rails Terrier overnight, and comparing comments on this forum with my own personal experience of a previous retailer's issue. I've got several of the P class tank engines produced under the Hattons brand. All were delivered intact, no bits fallen off, all run perfectly. About the worst I can say about them was that the plastic clamshell packaging used seemed a little cheap and nasty, BUT it got the locos to me in one piece undamaged. On the Hornby new Terriers, I've got several of those. All were delivered intact, no bits fallen off, although on the first one holes had been cut in the clamshell around the guard irons, so potential problems had obviously been identified, on early versions, in this respect. But again, all OK, all ran OK. Experiences with the above make the Dapol model even more frustrating, and I'm absolutely certain it has the POTENTIAL to be the best of the bunch, but poor build quality and appalling QA is scuppering that. If I was Mr.Barber I'd be giving Dapol an absolute roasting over this. If I was Dapol I'd be taking it extremely seriously. They've got further steam locos - including the D class - coming down the track in the not too far distant, and many, like me, who were considering placing orders will review the litany of apparent problems on the Terrier with dismay.

I have yet to personally get my hands on a Rails/Dapol Terrier, but I have friends who have (and in one instance have seen the issues) and they range from out of line running plates / missing steps to broken detailing (lamp irons and smoke box darts - I haven't seen a wonky chimney). It's not acceptable for the simple reason that this was marketed as a premium product - and was priced as such - but it would appear that Dapol doesn't have the quality procedures to match. This on a product that can cost over 50% more than you can actually pick up the Hornby versions for. I've no doubt a 100% correct one is a gem, but at their price point this should be the rule rather than the exception.

And the lamp iron/bracket above the smokebox door gone missing.

Agree totally. Rather like Royal Mail - they're probably people short, have had to implement social distancing measures, different working practices - and in those circumstances what would quite possibly resemble a well-oiled machine takes a knock. In the current situation, we should, like with Royal Mail, be grateful that they're carrying on at all and cut them some slack. I don't mind if my orders are delayed a few days, as long as they do arrive.

Several different orders. I wonder if they're doing them model by model.

It looks as though Rails have started processing orders, at least one of mine has had the payment taken for it. Re the BR versions, unless the images on the Rails website are still of the pre-production versions, still very disappointed with the BR versions - on the "face" on the locomotive, possibly the most noticeable part of any locomotive, the smokebox number plate is mounted noticeably too high. Yes, I realise that at least one of the preserved locos is so afflicted, but a quick look at Middleton Press's "Branch Line to Hayling" confirms the fact that the current pictures on the website show the smokebox number on 32661 to be mounted too high, and by a noticeable margin. I HOPE that the production versions have been amended.

Now, that's a model I would love to see, 36001, the Leader. As well as the one that ran, if I remember right number 36002 was almost ready to trial when the project was scrapped, and 36003 substantially completed too, so at least three different numbers to go at. Hope you're listening, KR Models !

I was never intending (particularly) to get involved with foreign locos and then whilst looking on Ebay for Mallets I can across the Rivarossi GT2 4/4 - fascinating German tank loco with the first batch built immediately prior to WW1 with an 0-8-8-0 T wheel arrangement (with a further batch in the early 20s) for use on heavily graded branch lines. I must confess, I couldn't resist, and now have a couple of them..

The Hornby website now says Spring 2020 for delivery of R3810. Which would indeed encompass May. At the current time, with current serious issues, there could be many reasons for that delay. I think it's just a case of being patient now, it should arrive eventually.

Just to add another slant - I too have now seen the Hattons R3810 e-mail and it does indeed state May. This, however, does not tie in with what I was told earlier today by Hornby customer services, that the R3810 Rocket is coming in as one delivery by the end of this week but then has to go through Hornby QA. This is as far as they went. Assuming it's correct, I would then expect it to be late next week, possibly the week after, before Hornby agents started getting their stock. The alternative slant is that it is only the Hattons extra stock they say they have got coming in to cover the extra R3810 orders is subject to delivery to them in May. Which given what Hornby said regarding all the delivery is coming in in one go gives rise to the question where Hattons' extra stock is coming from. There's probably multiple possibilities, but I certainly don't know the answer. Guess we'll all have to wait and see just what happens. Fingers crossed.

Update on Rocketgate - I'm told that Hattons will be offering customers who had preordered, but missed out, on R3809 the opportunity to order a R3810 at RRP (I believe £179.99), so keep an eye on your inboxes. It may not be the ideal solution, but given what's happened it's probably about as good as solution as it'll get and at least allows those collectors caught up the chance to obtain a loco that in both forms (3809 and 3810) seems pretty much sold out elsewhere.