TangoOscarMike

Gibbo, I've been meaning to email you, but, you know how it is.... SInce we last spoke on the topic I've assembled my first etched bass kit (the Brassmasters Cleminson underframe) so I'm more familiar with the medium now. If you were to send me drawings I could probably render them into a suitable electronic form. As for the bogies: our last interaction was that you tested a set with NEM coupling pockets on stalks, and suggested that the stalks could be beefed up a little. Since then I've done nothing (but I've always been planning to make a new version tomorrow). So maybe I'll do it soon (especially if someone in this forum asks me to!). You and I were pretty happy with the running of the wheel in the plastic socket (the plastic is pretty hard) but I've been toying with the idea of making a set with cylindrical holes for metal bearings. Cheers Tom

It's like alchemy, or a conjuring trick. You chop up toys and models, add bits and pieces, and then reassemble them into far, far better models. Although you post lots of pictures, so we can (metaphorically) see your hands at all times, it still isn't entirely clear how you do it. There's plenty I don't know about railways, so it's no surprise that I've never seen an out-through-the-window brake handle before. But I see that it's perfectly prototypical.

Thanks Tiptonian - I've only just noticed your reply (maybe I should pay more attention to my own threads). I didn't get any takers for the low-resolution "white strong and flexible" prints. Now, after a hiatus, I'm going to revisit this project and make a 3-compartment version for the Dapol 10' wagon chassis. I think this will produce 5'10" compartments, which are more in line with what you have said. The length, width and number of compartments are all adjustable parameters in my design, so in principle I can adapt it to any chassis. The devil is in the details, specifically (a) the attachment to the chassis and (b) the running boards. I also plan to do my next experiment with a higher resolution print, and to take advantage of that I must first refine the details somewhat. Above all, thank you for bringing the Vintage Carriage Trust to my attention!

After many months in development my outside cylinder and inside cylinder 0-4-0 tender engine bodies are available for sale from my Shapeways shop, together with a matching tender. Thank you to everyone on RMweb who provided advice and feedback. The Shapeways pages have a little information about assembly and painting, and (with permission) I'm going to give some more detail here. The Parts These are the parts. In addition to the two 3D prints, you will need an outside cylinder Holden or Caledonian Pug chassis (for the outside cylinder variant) or one of the inside cylinder tank engines. For the tender you will also need 12mm wheels with pinpoint axles and the coupling of your choice. You must separate the body and the chassis of the donor locomotive. Removing the body: Outside Cylinder For the outside cylinder engine I do this by sliding thin plastic wedges (guitar picks are ideal) between the cylinders and the valve chests, then twisting them. It's best not to use screwdrivers or any other metal implements, because these are likely to damage the plastic. Removing the body: Inside Cylinder To free the inside cylinder body from the chassis, undo the screw at the front. Removing the body reveals a metal block at the back that is also held in by a screw. Once the screw is removed, it is necessary to gently twist the block in order to get it out of the chassis. The Motor Retention Spring The motor is held into the chassis by a wire spring and the ends of this spring are formed into little loops. These loops may well stick up (in some cases they stick down) and interfere with the body. So you must either bend them out of the way or snip them off with wire cutters. The rear coupling hook must also come out. The tender is hollow, and it's worth adding weight by filling it with something. I've used plaster - not Plaster of Paris, but a stronger resin-impregnated plaster from a craft shop. Painting The remarks here about painting apply to both the tender and the locomotive. You can apply modellers' acrylic paint directly to the plastic. The plastic finish is rather grainy and you might want, before starting, to fill and sand the surface. But I find that the normal application of paint results in a reasonably smooth surface. You will often hear that you should apply several thin coats of paint. And it's true. The first and second coats will look awful, but by the third or fourth coat you will start to get a nice even finish. If you try to apply a single coat of un-thinned paint then you risk getting a lumpy finish. When I was ten years old I had never encountered modellers' acrylics, only enamels. Obtaining clean white spirit or turpentine required the help of adults, and storing several colours of thinned paint was beyond me. Also I didn't have the patience to apply multiple coats. These days, with acrylics, it's much easier. You can mix the paint a little bit at a time with tap water (sometimes I add a tiny drop of washing up liquid). And if you're in a hurry you can apply a second coat after half an hour. Painting in Progress This picture shows a single coat each of green, grey and red. Some grey paint from the cab walls has splashed onto the floor and back-head. This doesn't matter - they will be painted black anyway. The grey on the funnel cap, dome and safety valve (a single coat) is a base for the gold paint which is coming later, because this doesn't cover the white plastic so well. After three coats it's starting to look better. Four coats of the colours is enough, and now I've added masking tape before applying black. Note that some paint will leak under the masking tape, but it should be possible to touch up afterwards. This was the penultimate coat of black. The dull gold colour on the exposed brass is from a "Molotov" acrylic pen. Later, I added gold acrylic paint unthinned from a paint pot. This kept its shine a little better. The cab roof is glued on with PVA wood glue, which works well on this porous plastic. The gloss finish is a protective coat of varnish from a spray can. The beading around the cab sides and windows has been picked out in gold. The lining is a home-made waterslide transfer (more on this later) which should be applied to the glossy finish. After applying the lining, I used masking tape (this is 6mm Revell tape) and the Molotov acrylic pen for painted boiler bands. Again, it was necessary to touch up the green paint after removing the masking tape. Alternatively, you could use waterslide transfers for boiler bands (see below). Finally, I sprayed on a coat of semi-gloss varnish to take away the shine. But since I wanted the exposed brass to remain shiny, I masked it with tape first. Lining Transfer After trying several other techniques, I settled on using waterslide transfers for lining. Many model shops (online and real-world) sell paper for this, either transparent or with a white background. The transparent paper will only work if your background colour is pale, which meant that for this dark green I used the white-background paper, which meant in turn that I needed to include a good match for the background colour. This is the latest version of the the lining transfer image, suitable for both the inside- and outside-cylinder engines (and the tender): You need to have basic knowledge of image manipulation (I use the GIMP) and you should: Replace the red with the best match you can achieve for the colour of your locomotive. Change the lining to the colours of your choice. Add locomotive names and numbers or railway names as appropriate. Print the image at a resolution of 20 pixels per mm (otherwise it will be the wrong size). Use the best colour settings that your software and printer offer: telling the printer that it is printing on glossy photo paper will probably help. It's a good idea to print multiple copies on one sheet, to provide some spares and to avoid wasting the paper. At all times you should follow the instructions that came with your transfer paper. These will probably tell you to let the paper dry after printing, then spray on varnish. You should cut the transfers out leaving a coloured border (but no white) around the lining. Nevertheless, after applying the transfers there may well be a white fringe, which must be touched up with paint (which is why you need the best colour match you can achieve). The three strips are intended to be used as boiler bands. You must cut them to length yourself if you use them. Selecting a colour match To choose a suitable green for the outside cylinder engine, I printed grids of candidate greens (example below - the numbers are red, green and blue values) and then selected the one that seemed to be the best match to the painted engine. It's hard to make this selection, because changes in lighting conditions will make you change your mind. It helps if you put a blob of your colour on each square, but it's still difficult because the paint will have a different texture, and will thus look different in different lighting conditions. When printing a grid of candidate colours, you should use glossy photo paper and the same software/printer settings that you will later use for the transfer. How to make the grid of colours is outside the scope of this very long post, but if you contact me I can give you a hand (whether or not you're using it for one of my products). And if enough people contact me then I'll put details in a separate post. Painting the locomotive black is of course much simpler - you don't have to hunt for a colour match. Next I'm going to try an overall black with a coloured boiler and coloured panels within the lining. This should work even if the colour match isn't good.

Meanwhile (thinking I would have to wait for the Axleboxes) I made a start on the next experiment. I've chopped out parts of opposite sides of Clarabel, with the intention of swapping them round. This should produce a coach that has one passenger compartment, and one guard/luggage compartment with double doors. I've taken the cuts well into the floor in order to (a) reduce the amount of reconstruction required and (b) produce a good strong join. We'll see.

I've added brake details to the other truck and to the central one, throroughly immobilising the delicate breakable parts. I must put some track on the living room floor and take it for a test run before I go much further. I don't yet have a layout, and in any case track clipped together on the living room floor is the very essence of Christmas, as far as I'm concerned! Meanwhile, I took your advice (I mean youse's advice, y'all's advice) and ordered these Axleboxes/Springs from Wizard models. These arrived rather quickly (and with the shipping cost adjusted down to something sensible), just when I was thinking the project would have to go on-hold. They are awfully small and delicate. And at the correct-ish height the J-hangers only just touch the solebars. So I am going to fashion brackets of some sort out of brass. I'm just off to the model shop now to get material for this and for step boards.

Thank you! I have lots of experience at soldering electronics badly, but this is the first time I've tried to construct something by soldering metal. It's been very difficult, but at the same time surprisingly successful. The main lessons learned are things I already knew: metal must be clean before soldering, and arrangements must be made to hold the parts in position. The Brassmasters kit went together much more easily than I expected, although a few of the holes were a little too small and had to be drilled out. Cheers Tom

In case anyone is considering repeating what I've done, I took some pictures while adding a NEM-esque (not fully standards compliant!) pocket to the other truck: The raw ingredients, from left to right: The Cleminson truck. A piece of 3mm x 4mm brass channel 6mm long. A piece of of the same brass channel, filed down to approximately 2mm x 4mm. This is 7mm long. A piece of 1.5mm x 4mm brass strip, several cm long. First, file down the end "wall" of the truck to a bit less than 3mm. Second, solder the 6mm length of channel about 0.5mm away from the end: I've got it a little wonky, but that doesn't matter. Third, attach the 7mm piece of channel near one end of the long strip. In my case it is 13mm from the end - I think the generic formula would be ((length-over-buffers - wheelbase) / 2)) - 18 All in mm, and don't take my word for it! I wanted a secure join without any solder inside the pocket, so I soldered a strap of leftover etch on both sides. Fourth, trim away the excess strap. Fifth, solder the beam-and-pocket onto the 6mm platform. I made a support by soldering some more of the brass channel onto a leftover "plate" of the photoetch brass. This allowed me to keep the plane of the beam parallel to the base of the truck. But I didn't take any pictures of the actual soldering arrangements (because I'm too ashamed!): Sixth and Seventh, trim away the excess beam (tidy with a file) and add a coupling. I have a big Hornby coupling on the other end, but since I couldn't find my bag of these things I've used a skinny Bachmann coupling here instead. It will give me an opportunity to compare them in use. The Hornby coupling was a perfect fit, but my pocket is slightly too narrow for the Bachmann one, so I shaved a tiny bit of plastic off both sides. Cheers Tom

Aye, boat duly floated! In real life, are rail mounted cranes exclusively for breakdowns? Or do they sometimes get used for other things (construction? moving freight in exceptional curcumstances? (moving freight in normal circumstances?)...)? Cheers Tom

Good morning everyone I see a selection of excellent crane models. Clearly it's far easier to achieve realistic operations of a passenger train than realistic hands-off operations of a crane. Has anybody here managed to motorise the moving parts and have their crane actually lift something? I can see many obstacles.

I've linked the brake shoes with brass rod, as per instructions (leaving plenty of room - the brakes will never come anywhere near the wheels!). It was becoming rather urgent to immobilise the brakes because they were getting pretty chewed up and liable to fall off. So to further fix the outer brakes I added a brass rod which goes up and forwards (hopefully out of sight) and is soldered to the frame. The inner brakes are connected to a crude representation of brake gear made out of brass rod and surplus etch. I don't mind incorporating all this into the pivoting truck because it doesn't really represent a full-size Cleminson mechanism. In any case, when I have springs, axle-boxes and step-boards in place, this should all just contribute to a general impression of busyness underneath. Hopefully I've learned enough to make the modifications of the other truck go a bit more smoothly.

I have come full circle with the couplings. Or maybe I'm going round in circles - it's hard to tell. I've removed the nasty prongs (visible in the last sets of pictures) and fashioned a NEM pocket out of brass. But instead of attaching it to the main chassis, as originally planned, I've attached it to one of the outer trucks (if that's the right term) of the Cleminson mechanism, so that it points round corners a little bit. There have been several false starts but I'm happy with the end result. I'm less happy that each botched attempt has damaged the truck a little bit more (the brakes are bent all over the place). Hopefully when I do the other truck it will all go much more smoothly. If anyone's interested I could post more details and dimensions of the parts.

A bit of progress with the underframe. I wanted to raise the height to match the Hornby 4 wheel coaches (although I know it would be better to lower the 4 wheelers). Also, I found the mechanism somewhat unreliable - especially the sideways movement of the centre W-iron unit - perhaps with time I will learn to assemble these more neatly. So I made this contrivance of plasticard to act as a separator and a smooth bearing surface for the moving parts. In position it looks like this: And with the rest of the underframe in place I get this: It works very well (although over time it might grind the plastic to dust). I can make it go around my tight curves with a gentle push. It's still a whisker lower than the 4 wheel coach, but if I try to raise it any higher the moving parts will be below the solebars. So I'm leaving it like this and moving on.

Well now, I'm sure we can all agree that 4-4-0 is the second most elegant wheel arrangement (and there are some lovely examples on this very forum). But nothing is more elegant than 2-2-2.

Thanks Alan, I'll try again this evening.

Thank you both, Gentlemen. I confess that I could spend quite a while browsing through the Wizard Models website. But if I needed model railway parts for an emergency (cat stuck up a tree or somesuch) then I would find it a little maddening. Nevertheless, I found some castings that I liked (at an excellent price) and some pinpoint bearings to make it up to a sensible order. But then, alas, I told the website that I live in Germany and it quoted me a shipping price large enough to pay for a handcrafted full-size replica 6 wheel coach (I exaggerate a little). So I'll meditate a bit more. Perhaps I'll find something else on the website to make a bigger order. Or maybe I'll get the order sent to my parents. I'm toying with the idea of making my own whitemetal springs and axleboxes. I have some experience (from making toy knights and princesses) of making silicone moulds for casting metal. I could make a master out of plastic.... But the process is a terrible rigamarole, and I'm not always successful. Whatever else happens, I will take your advice and use glue. I have plenty of experience at being bad at soldering - I know my limits. This project is helping me to improve, but I don't want to run before I can walk. Thanks Tom

Thanks Jon. I'd like to pick your brains a little more, if that's OK. Firstly, is there any particular casting that you'd suggest? My internet search has led me here, but I'm sure there are other possibilities. Secondly, would you solder or glue the castings to the brass solebar? If I understand correctly, soldering is possible but it calls for quite a bit of skill because it's easy to melt the casting. As for 3D CAD, I use OpenSCAD, which isn't conventional CAD software but suits my way of working. And I don't have a 3D printer - I use Shapeways. They aren't cheap, but I find it a little magical that I can design something on the computer and receive it in the post a week later. Cheers Tom

Yes indeed! But it's not quite ready for public posting yet. Cheers Tom

Thank you. That's the penultimate design. The final design is nearly there!

Time, cost, energy, space,... but also the nagging fear that it would be a non-stop source of complex derailments and stalling problems! Tempting all the same...

Hello. I've just blundered into this thread as I roam around RMWeb. But I think it's worth mentioning that the Tillig range includes three-rail dual-gauge HO / HOe track, which I assume works fine as 00 / 009. I find the idea very tempting, but for me now is not the time. Cheers Tom

I must also give some thought to springs and axleboxes. Since it's not supposed to represent a "real" Cleminson mechanism, I want to attach these directly to the solebars. I don't really know, but I suppose that options include: Fabricate them out of brass: nope - that's beyond my skill. Solder a whitemetal casting in place melt a whitemetal casting into a little puddle. Glue a whitemetal casting in place. Fabricate them out of plastic. Get them 3D printed. Although I was hoping for a completely metal chassis, 3D printing might give the best results - I could design something that would fit exactly. And as usual I would be grateful for any suggestions! Cheers Tom

This weekend I took a run-up and assembled a Brassmasters Cleminson underframe. It's not the best quality work, but it's not as bad as this picture makes it look: Apart from my eyes and hands, the main problem has been the Hornby wheels. I suspect that these underframes are not normally used with wheels that have such hugeous flanges. However, it all seems OK, though it will need some filing, adjustment and shims. And it seems to be OK (but at its limit) on my tight Fleischmann curves. This should give a rough idea of what I'm aiming for (and a clear idea that I shouldn't switch to a career in phtography). Cheers Tom

That looks good, thanks. I'll try it on a future locomotive.