Will Crompton

Some particularly vivid memories of smells from the 1970s spring to mind. 4-Sub interiors. The smell of oily between sleeper clag at Old Oak Common in summer when we used to bunk OOC er, erm legitimately visit the facility. Diesel fumes under the overall roofs at Paddington, St Pancras and King's Cross. Also the smell of the Tate and Lyle refinery on the Thames which if the wind was in the right direction could reach Earlsfield/Southfields/Wimbledon.

If you wanted to go for a railblue/nuclear flask combo Southminster provides inspiration. https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5639427 The linked photo (credited to Walter Dendy), dated 1978, shows the flask gantry behind the goods shed. Intriguingly the yard seems to show non nuclear wagons present so maybe it was still in use for other traffic as well. The line through the shed appears in use (though I assume the shed itself wasn't) so that makes a nice 'prototype for everything scenario.' 'Diesels in the Capital' by Brian Beer has a wonderful picture from 1985 taken from a bit closer to the good shed. In this one can just see a gate protecting the gantry siding. also there is a Gronk in front of the shed and a 116 DMU arriving past a rather nice signal box.

That makes sense. I think I saw the U and my brain went into autopilot mode!

I found a 'doors open' picture in the Key, 'Modelling British Railways: Parcels and Mail Trains' bookazine on P10. It is of a Southern PMV or CCT at Golspie station in 1968. The open doors are a quite striking red (bauxite red?) on the inside but the exterior is filthy so it is difficult to tell the livery.

In 'Aspects of Modelling: Signalling', by Nigel Digby, there is a trackplan/map of Cromer Beach M and GN station in 1914 which shows a siding marked 'private siding', running off the goods yard headshunt. I had a quick look at O.S. maps at the National Library of Scotland and the siding can also be seen on the larger scale maps, for example this one: https://maps.nls.uk/view/120846956 On this map the siding appears to serve a 'U.D.C. Storeyard' which I'm guessing belonged to the local council (i.e. Unitary District Council). On all the maps some sort of fence/border is shown crossing the siding so I think it would have been gated. One of the O.S. maps also shows a trap point within the fenced off part. I haven't manage to track down any pictures of the siding alas.

That is a very tantalising picture indeed.

Fascinating stuff. I can see myself wading through pictures of Southern vans now trying to find those with doors open!

Following the link I found it was in a Flickr gallery entitled 'British Railway Rarities - the early years'. There is a second picture of 10001 at Beaconsfield and a date is given of April 24th 1965. The gallery is by the way wonderful and contains some stunning pictures of various early prototypes and some of the less successful designs, none of which I recall having seen before. Well worth sitting down with the beverage of ones choice and perusing. Many thanks for posting this link. I should warn those of a sensitive disposition that the gallery does contain pictures of the Fell.

Thanks everyone for the interesting and helpful responses to date. I am going to have to track down the Larkin book with the Stove-R. I would agree with the idea that perhaps maroon was meant instead of crimson. Oh dash it all, let's be honest I'm going to buy a maroon one to go with my blue one aren't I. 1970 and all that!😄

Many thanks, that looks like a must have.

I was going to keep that question for a separate question thread at some later date, but I would also be interested in any SR parcels stock in BR(S) green post 1970.

Many thanks. That's really helpful. Please dont go ladder climbing post op!😰 I am definitely going to have to track down the relevant Larkin book/s. A Stove-R in crimson in 1974! Brilliant. I have a blue one now I have an excuse for a red'un too!

I would like to know which, if any, parcels vans made it into the 1970s still bearing BR maroon. Scouring Flickr the latest I've found are a couple of examples from 1971. 1) A BR mk1 CCT with the double arrow and 'Rail Express Parcel's' branding and at Bristol Temple Meads 2) an ex GWR Collett full brake at Reading, albeit marked 'cond'. I've seen a number of pictures of parcels stock in BR maroon from 1969/70 on Flickr and also in the recent Key publication on modelling parcels trains. Also the (rather wonderful) thread in the 'miscellany' section here on 'Modelling a Traditional Parcels train has proved fascinating but I haven't spotted any maroon later than70/71. I am of course bearing in mind it might be difficult to tell if the vehicle has gained the layer of grot typical for parcels stock. I have a medium term ambition to develop an n-gauge layout set in the 1970s depicting a parcels depot or dock and have started collecting some relevant parcels stock with this in mind (RTR, second hand RTR, plus I hope to try my hand at some kits in due course). Hence the interest. If it turns out maroon parcels stock was as rare as hen's teeth after 1970 one possibility would be to have two sets of rolling stock, one for 1970 with a few maroon stragglers and one set for later in the 70s all blue. I do recall seeing maroon mk1 passenger coaches in the first half of the 70s (as has been discussed in at least one thread at RMweb), mainly odd ones or twos in rakes at Kings Cross but I do not remember seeing any parcels stock in maroon. Many thanks in advance for any info.

Many thanks. Looks like I should renumber it at least.

Many thanks for the link. It's interesting as it has the plywood sides as per my Dapol model but an S rather than an M number prefix. I likewise remember the 'dirt' livery very well from my spotting days in the 70s. I was always fascinated by the sheer variety of van types one could see on longer parcels trains.

A few years back, as a result of rummaging through a second hand box in a model shop I impulse bought a Dapol n gauge SR CCT in BR maroon livery, numbered M527467. A comment in an archived thread (see below) suggests that both the number and livery are non-prototypical. I have not been able to find any evidence of these vehicles in BR maroon either via a (brief) search on the web and also consulting the recent Key Publications modellers guide to parcels and mail rolling stock. I would be grateful for any information regarding the authenticity or otherwise of the appearance of this model.

I have really enjoyed following your Peasevern Yard thread here. It's a wonderful layout. If I can ever produce something a tenth as good I would be more than happy!

Many thanks Andy and team. Your hard work is much appreciated.👍

Many thanks once again Mike, really fascinating and helpful info. I was dead set on setting my proposed layout 'oop north' but the WR practices outlined make an imaginary WR setting a possibility as well. It would be appropriate as I spent many happy spotting hours here in the early 70s at the platform ends at Paddington and at Old Oak Common depot.

It's just struck me that Avon Street Sidings above were almost certainly inspired by Rob Owst's wonderful 7mm Peasevern Yard layout!

Many thanks for this info Mike, it's really helpful. I have a couple of follow up questions if that's OK. 1) Can I assume there were similar arrangements on other BR regions? 2) If there was a 'STOP telephone for instructions' board would the train crew phone for instructions on both entering and exiting the C2 section?

Many thanks, Rivercider, for the Avonside Wharf photos. They are fascinating on a number of levels. Also your comments on propelling moves.

I have changed the thread title as 'limit of shunt' is clearly what scientist's call 'wrong'. Here's an updated diagram.

Thanks for that photo Ian. BTW the gradient of that branch looks a bit fearsome! A gated exit before the road crossing was my thinking for scenario 3 but I can see that using your idea one could have the gate before the 'main line' with maybe a catch point for added versimil......versimlll.....realism. This would give one a bit more space to play with as one would not have to model a road (although I like the scenic possibilities of that). The gated exit could be combined with Chimers idea of modelling a teensy weensy bit of the main line. Hmmm, this and the stop and await instructions idea are giving me plenty of food for thought. I forgot to mention that i was interested in this question in the context of shunting puzzle layouts in general but chose the Inglenook for illustrative purposes and because it's on my shortlist as a potential track plan.

Thanks everyone for the answers and info so far. Clearly 'limit of shunt' is a poorly chosen term in this context. I like Wheatley's suggestion of a 'stop and await instructions' point with an appropriate signal and notice board. Would this be appropriate for scenarios 1, 2 and 5 above? Chimers suggestion of a teeny bit of the mainline would be an excise for some additional scenic work as 'practice'. Although regarding the bus on the bridge I have been working my way through Graham T's Chuffnell Regis thread this afternoon and one of his respondees points out that the bus on the bridge is compulsory and is in fact Rule 2. I also like Flying Pig's idea about propelling the brake van as well for added shunting complications. Thanks to Gordon A for mentioning Avon Street. I just found a track plan here. http://bristol-rail.co.uk/wiki/File:Avon_Wharf_Track_Plan_1902.jpg This looks like a fascinating rabbit hole. Must resist, must resist..............