Tramshed

On 05/03/2019 at 08:51, Bernard Lamb said:

https://www.hattons.co.uk/NewsDetail.aspx?id=449&utm_campaign=Project Update - Oxford J27 CADs - 010319 (LFRnfk)&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Project Update Oxford J27 040319&_ke=eyJrbF9lbWFpbCI6ICJwLmxvdmdyZWVuQGJ0aW50ZXJuZXQuY29tIiwgImtsX2NvbXBhbnlfaWQiOiAiSkdRZVhoIn0%3D

Try this version with numbers included.

Looks good so far.

Bernard

V.helpful link. The dome height issue aside, Oxford appear to have matched the boilers to the intended livery in each case. 65817 carried the 57A boiler between 7/46 and 9/52 when it reverted to the P3/57 type until 1/60 when fitted with the 57A again until withdrawal on 1/5/67 and thus good for a late crest livery. They could have got away with offering P3/57 boilers all round and assumed 65817 ran with late crest prior to 1960 but to their credit they have made the effort and offered a wider modelling window

Whether you like this loco or not, there have been variations on this and the 'twin' 10000 released before as special commissions for both 'Hattons' and 'Rails' so it is a popular subject. So popular that a 1:1 scale 'new build' is on the cards (see 'Modern Railways' this month). I suspect this will spark even more interest in model form and the delay in its release may prove advantageous. Albeit that the other twin is the subject.

The front coupling looks like it sticks out quite far.

The coupling and NEM pocket assembly is 'push fitted' into its slot at the front of the loco and lifts out very easily with no need for tools. It can always be pushed back into place if running bunker first in which case it is hidden behind the leading vehicle of the train. No big deal for me anyway.

There's a nice pic of 1002 in unlined grey with GER on the sidetanks in 1921 on p55 of Yeadon's Register vol 27. Interestingly, there is a note which states, 'nos 1001 and 1002 to 1011 remained in grey after their first LNER repair'. It goes on to say that a small LNER number plate was substituted for the large GER one, which was one quite visible change.

 

Edited to remove references to details already discussed above.

Indeed a nice photo and one that shows the use of drop shading on the GER lettering to make it visible against a very light grey background. Over the page we see 2 photos, of 1003 and 1011, showing the 1921 'train control' numbers without drop shading. These stand out quite well against their grey background. This evidence supports the RCTS reference to a darker shade of grey being applied in 1921, perhaps in anticipation of 'train control'. If this is the case then it appears that Oxford have applied 1921 numbers on 1914 light grey. I am not complaining and I admire Oxford for venturing into the pre-grouping era before the widespread use of colour photography upon which to base accurate research.

I agree that it would have been nice to see 1002 with GER lettering and maybe a future release with Train Control numbering. However, given that 1002 was built in 1921 and Train Control was implemented the same year, I doubt the GER lettering stayed long and thus the version of 1002 modelled covers a wider time window (year and a half vs a few months).

 

Intrigued that Oxford's website suggests other versions may be tooled in the future (probably depending on the success of these initial releases) - perhaps a chance then to see 1001 in GER blue, if the correct cab is modelled?

Not just the cab I'm afraid. Oxford have said they will not release either of the first 2 locos as they would need to tool for a different boiler with the dome set further back.

I have come across some further information on the livery for this period from the RCTS volume 9A (so don't shoot the messenger!) it states:- "No. 1000 was turned out painted in light grey with black panelling and red lining. It had standard G.E.R. transfer lettering in gold with red shading. No 1001 however, received ultramarine blue livery with black edging and red lining. No. 1000 was never painted blue and worked throughout the 1914-18 war in the light grey colour until 1921 when it received a coat of shop lead grey. The ten engines built during 1921 were all finished in this shop lead colour. The cab fronts and boiler bands were black and the lettering was yellow, shaded black. At this time the quality of the blue paint could not be guaranteed and was four times the pre-war price. Cast brass numberplates were fitted. Later in 1921 train control was introduced on the GER and the lettering on the side tanks was painted out and replaced by the engine's number in 19in. high figures in middle chrome yellow. This was the livery in which Nos. 1000-11 entered L.N.E.R. stock"

The grey on the Oxford model is a rather light shade and I wonder if it should have been a darker 'lead' shade! One has sympathy for the manufacturers trying to work off photographs when everything was grey and the light would play tricks on the researcher. Certainly the yellow lettering would stand better contrast against a darker grey (perhaps something closer to the GWR wagon colour). Time was when a model was supplied with a loco crew. I can see the day when it comes with a set of platform figures of 2 people arguing about the colour scheme on the loco!

 

I do think it's slightly peculiar that there are no re-liveries of the H1/H2, from what I gathered they were very popular!

Not only are there no re-liveries, there are no Atlantics at all in the new catalogue! Not even the GN/LNER ones !

Fantastic news! I'm so pleased someone has finally bitten onto making the J27! Can't like this enough.

 

Only slight regret is that they haven't done 65894, but either its tucked back as a special edition, or I renumber one of the offerings. 

 

So happy! 

 

Paul. 

Suggest you wait and see if it is a later release. Whatever you do don't renumber one of the offerings. There are traps aplenty with this class. All 4 of the first round of releases could have the same type 57 boiler rather than the later 57A carried by the preserved example. The 57A had the dome positioned further away from the smokebox. Even the 'late crest' version which carried the 57A reverted to a '57' during the 'late crest' period so it is possible that Oxford are trying to represent all eras with a common set of tooling. They are also likely to have tooled for the 57A but may release this later. Their N7 has 2 types of firebox in the first round of releases but the cab is of the early 'GE series' type. Oxford have tooling for the later N7 cab for later release so it is likely the J27 will appear with other variations in future.  

Assuming 15t tons  maximum on all ten axles then a total of up to 150 tons.

 

I would be interested to see how the linkage/coupling transferring weight to the relieving bogies worked.

if you type 'stokes patent relieving bogies' into your browser you will find plenty of 'images' as well as a link to the 'breakdown crane association' (yes there is an association for just about everything it seems!) which is pretty good at describing how it works. It also gives information on axle weights. Hope this helps.

The weight of the crane and jib was carried on six axles as far as I can see and apparently complied with a 15 ton maximum axle load requirement. So 90 tons plus the other two "trucks" so  about 110 - 120 tons. Add another 40 to 60 for vans, etc. and so probably still under 200 tons. That would put it within the capability of an 0-6-0 goods loco or similar.

My understanding is that, while not increasing the overall weight of the train, the weight of crane and jib was carried on 10 axles. The 2 4-wheeled vehicles either side of the crane were 'relieving bogies'. The crane itself would be quite heavy even on 4 axles and since they presumably had to be 'go anywhere' vehicles there were issues of weak bridges etc that came into play while the consist was in transit from depot to work site.

The linkage between the crane and the bogies was arranged such that the bogies carried some of the weight of the crane. The situation could be likened to an injured footballer walking off the pitch on the shoulders of 2 companions to avoid putting too much weight on an injured leg! (I suppose). When on site the bogies could be detached. The bogies were patented by Wilfred S Stokes of the Ransome and Rapier company but adopted by other makers later.

C class in full SECR colours. Now that was a surprise after all the hear say of the diificulties doing it first time.

 

A second rake of SECR coloured birdcages too.

 

The OO-9 looks good too and an area they can do really well in.

 

No more Atlantics - that is a surprise.

Agree its good that the C has made a return in full lined livery. I managed to get one first time round but delighted that others may now get a chance. Since J Spencer's post, Andy Y posted the pictures of the SECR livery 'Birdcages'. These are listed as 'Wellington Brown' rather than 'Dark Lake' and look to be a simpler (cheaper?) livery to produce so not just the same again with alternate numbers. Doubtless there are a few learned scholars out there with reference books at the ready who can tell us which livery came first, roughly what span of years applied to each and which is correct to run with locos in lined green or grey.

A car ferry might be useful!

 

Gerry

What in time for Brexit.

And pick up a fat cheque from the government to get you out of you financial worries.....Margate too

And a random cut-out on the mechanism.

Or better still, DCC operation with sound chip!

The only tankie you list with more than ten members was the W - and ( ignoring occasional posting of a Z in Kent ) that's the one with the widest geographical coverage ..... so that's my guess - though I feel a 4-4-0 or U Boat is far more likely to appear from Hornby someone.

According to 'Maunsell Locomotives' by Brian Haresnape, the Z class made it as far as....................wait for it......................Scotland! Numbers 951/5/6 were loaned in 1942/3 and seen at war department depots at Cairnryan and Stranraer. Still not worth an r-t-r model though as mainly a depot shunter. Looking back over the Hornby product history I think only the L1 and D49 are still awaiting an upgrade. All others have had a re-issue by Hornby or someone else. 

No it cannot!

WHat, not even the chassis and motor housing. Leading dimension of wheel spacing appear identical between K1 and K4. Hornby have good form in preparing variant tooling for the bodywork. e.g. alternative boilers for the B17, Alternative running plates for the L1 tank (open and curved) as well as alternative frames for the Piston and Slide valve variants of the D16 so we can but hope. Agree that it would need different boiler, cab and cylinders.

The (Ransomes & Rapier built) swing bridge over the new entrance lock to Ipswich Wet Dock - constructed in 1903. I believe it was being weight tested, hence the two locos.

I'd already answered that one on the Dimmerspam post on the National Preservation Forum!!!   One of the others appears to be Gt Yarmouth - the one with the Lacons brewery store in the background.

 

Edit - The same bridge, 87 years later......

 

90-004.JPG

This is a bit of a puzzle. Lets start with what we can agree on. The engines in the B&W photo are not Y6 but J70 as YS never carried numbers 136 & 135 and only 126 of the class was ever based in Ipswich but was renumbered 07126 on 29/2/24.

Now we come to the question of when the bridge was constructed. It does not feature in the 1904 maps of Ipswich even though these show what appears to be a 'pit' next to the dock ready for it's later addition. The Act authorising teh construction of the bridge over the lock was passed in 1913 with a 10 year expiry limit (to 1923). Due to the outbreak of WW! this act was amended in 1918 by which time it would have been apparent that the 1913 act deadline would not be met so the expiry moved to (say) 1928. I am indebted to the Ipswich maritime trust for a photograph dated 17/2/25 showing the line over the lock under construction. What we can also be sure about is that the bridge constructed at this time was NOT the one shown in the colour photo since this was constructed in 1947, possibly stronger than the original and 1947 was about the time that Cliff Quay power station was built.

The locos are a bit of a mystery though as searching the Yeadon registers reveals that 135 and 136 were never allocated to the same shed. only 135, 139 and 129 were allocated to Ipswich before they would have lost their GE number plates in 1926 and even then 129 was moved elsewhere between 13/5 and 20/11 1925.

Having waded through most of this thread I would agree with those who suggested the V4 2-6-2 might be released though I suspect it will be further into the future than 2019 and probably timed to coincide with the new build. The K4 would require a new tender but much of the K1 tooling could be used.

Based on previous announcements about the SR MN and LMS 8P I think it is likely that we will see the 'middle third' (21C11-20) produced in SR and BR colours and surely 8P Sir William Stanier in LMS black.

Coaching stock should certainly offer a GWR catering car for reasons stated elsewhere and the recent Maunsell car (c/w open 3rd) could appear in post-war Malachite

On the modern image front no one seems to have spotted the obvious (unless I have failed to spot the post) that this year sees the introduction to the UK of the Stadler 'Flirt' trains. Given the response to the GWR Hitachi trains the 'Flirts' would be a good project. Hornby would not have to offer a full 12-car inter-city but could release the 3 or 4 car 'bi-mode' units since all 3 passenger cars and the power car in the 3-car version are included in the 4-car so simplifying the tooling options.

Nice vid. The only comments I have are that Beachy Head was an H2. While only 3 H1s saw BR days (withdrawn by 1951), all the H2s made it.

Beachy Head, the last H2 went in 1956, the Bluebell commitee was formed in 1959. So I doubt they would have had plans to save Beachy Head.

Bluebell's replica is of course of an H2, not an H1 and I'm glad they chose Beachy Head rather than doing the next number in a sequence.

Although 3 of the H1 class made it to BR days only 2 of these could be said to be original H1's since the former 39 'La France', by then 2039 and named 'Hartland Point', was rebuilt by Bulleid in 1947 with sleeve valves as an experimental test bed for the Leader project. Doubtless just a matter of time before someone offers a sleeve valve mod though not something I would attempt myself!

Don’t worry it’s not been forgotten... Work is in progress...

Graham,

I have 3 of these on order but noticed a missing component on the CAD images. The photographs show that, in addition to the full length running board mounted at axle height, there is a foot step at the veranda end. This does not appear in the CAD images that just show the running board. I posted this observation to Kernow but thought it prudent to mention to you in case it had been overlooked and before it is too late to correct. Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere on the thread. Looking forward to their release and happy that time is taken to get everything right.

Having a read Rapido trains UK's almost, sort off...Not really monthly magazine...Further photo's of the J70's have appeared: 

 

 

unnamed.jpg

 

Boiler Asembly.jpg

 

Again the photo's are not mine and if there was a piece of blurb saying these photos are not allowed to be copied and shared, I'm sorry and I will take down. 

Copywrite...Has to be done 

Excellent photos and excellent models. The BR one appears to have the upper part the wrong way round (cylinders not at the same end as the chimney). I accept that these are decorated samples and hopefully QC will ensure the final shipped models will be correct. Mind you, if it is easy to assemble incorrectly at the factory then presumably it is easy for the consumer to fix when they take delivery without resorting to a lot of fuss on this forum.

Today's the Day UPS Arrive with the Package, Typically the wife is not working today and will greet the driver. The Bulleid excuse was I ordered this 6 years ago. I Cant really come up with anything good for this one or use something similar!! Hopefully it is one piece and wont need Assembling.

 

Sorry to hear about all you guys trouble though, Looks like things have been pared down as in a lot of places the Staff are getting overwhemeled with work tasks. Emails can be a massive drag though to trawl through and answer.

Plenty of evidence on here that it was intended for someone else and delivered to you in error! Hope you just get the one. Some have had to explain why they got two or more!

I'd return that one, the chimney has clearly come off, assume it was damaged during delivery?

I would keep it if I were you. You can always glue the chimney back on but there are some on this forum that would pay good money for the version with the 'Sturrock style' tender!

I have never posted on this forum before but wanted to reassure Ian McCann, who I have never met and may not even be a reader of this forum, that I received 2 Stirling singles with my address on this morning but only one with my name, the other his. I returned his to the local depot for them to return to Locomotion who I am sure will sort it all out in due course. The fact that I only had one letter today with the spare chains, invoice and the good news about GNR rolling stock suggests that good old Royal Mail must be working from a reliable list of names and addresses so hopefully Locomotion will be able to identify the intended recipients. At least I was only charged once which seems to be bothering some on this thread. I had been sent 2 emails but it was too late to stop the delivery.