Tallpaul69

Thanks for everyone's input, but as the wires in my set up are not going to be moved once installed, except if necessary to resolve any faults that occur, I am not going to start on a massif exercise to replace them. This would probably cause more problems than it would cure!

However, this thread is not about telephone systems, so I am not sure of the relevance? Or are you disagreeing with the contributor that thought the wire on my relay boards was CCA?

In my original posting I was trying to avoid the discussion getting side tracked into a discussion on the whole system, and focused on the particular relay board mounting problem. In this I was not successful, but to answer your question as simply as possible:- The layout runs in two time periods, early 1960s with semaphores and mechanical ground signals, and modern with colour light signals and ground signals. I will do a changeover of periods say every three months. The signals "plug" into the baseboards, semaphores and colour lights having identical bases that fit the same holes. I will be able to change over say from semaphore to colour light by disconnecting from the servo under the baseboard , swapping each signal, and connecting the colour light to the appropriate wiring under the baseboard. Some signals will only operate in one time period. So taking as an example the control of a single arm semaphore signal, this starts at a DCC interface board, which is connected to a particular relay. This relay then connects either via a Megapoint Servo controller and a servo to the rod controlling the semaphore version of the signal, or directly to the wiring harness for the two aspect colour light version. I don't really want here to get further into a technical discussion of the details of the system here, that is not the purpose of this thread. I will post further once I have gathered the suggested materials re the mounting of the relay boards and done some trials of the alternatives. Many thanks to all for their input, Paul

Hi Phil, They are latching relays in the circuits for control of signals. Cheers Paul

I can't comment on the flux used on the PCBs as I did not make or assemble them, same goes for the wire used. I will take these points up with the signal maker, who is a reputable signal and signal control system maker, so should know what he is doing!

I have had a number of thoughts around @5barVT suggested foam tape:- The options seem to be:- 1) Use the plastic bulldog clips to hold the relay boards and tape them either directly to the main board, or fix the bulldog clips with tape to a daughter board which will then mount to the main board using bolts and pillars. or:- 2) Dispense with the plastic bulldog clips and tape the relay boards either directly to the main board, or fix them with tape to a daughter board which will then mount to the main board using bolts and pillars. Using a daughter board has the advantage that once I am happy with the mounting of the relay boards to the daughter board, I can fix it in one go to the main board and then proceed with the wiring up, rather than fixing then wiring one at a time. Also the route betwen the daughter board and the main board might provide better cable routing from the relay boards to other items on the main board. I am not yet sure of the pros and cons of the bulldog clips, so will do some experiments with the tape. There should be plenty on a reel to do some experiments and still have enough for the actual installation. Watch this space.......

Thanks Andy, Unfortunately, I don't have the time, skills, or funds (I would have to expect to replace all the relays?), to rebuild the boards! I think the problem with mounting the existing boards on larger cards for mounting in a card cage are the same as my original problem? I do agree with you about the benefits of card guides. However, I think for them to be successful the boards need to be designed for this from the outset. It has been suggested to me that outdoor (i.e.:- tougher than indoor) double sided tape might be a way forward? I think I will invest in a reel and have a play. It is not expensive, I think a couple of pounds for a reel, and its useful stuff even if it doesn't do this job! Cheers Paul

Calling all you electronics experts, especially those experienced in hardware for tidy placement of sub boards on main boards:- I am currently designing a control board to give me a tidy arrangement of a number of electronic boards in a signal control network. All of the items have been manufactured for the circumstances of my layout, but as envisaged by the designer/manufacturer, they will, I fear in time lead to problems in locating and correcting faults as they will be strung out between the signal and the dedicated power supplies and not be in a logical and tidy arrangement under the baseboards. A problem that I am struggling with relates to a number of small circuit boards each with one relay on and as shown in the second photo below, and fixing them to the edge of the main board. In explanation of the above statement, I offer the attached photos:- This first one shows (I hope!) what I am trying to achieve. I have used a piece of plain card in substitution for the MDF or ply that the control panel will be made of. The upper, yellow bulldog clip is clipped to one of my small relay boards and on the face of it is fine, I can attach it to the board with an arrangement of washers on a screw through the lower metal loop. However these clips are made of metal, and while the blades are painted, I worry that this might not be good enough in the long term to prevent shorting of the circuits on the reverse of the relay board through pressure of the clip on the solder joints wearing away the clip's paint. The lower pink bulldog clip is good as its blades are plastic, but the arms have no way of fixing to the main board unless I can make a hole through the arm. The relay boards are too small to use pillars which is how I am tackling larger sub boards. The second photo shows the underside of a relay board and i hope you can see that the runs of circuit are close together and that the mounds of solder on the joints are relatively large. I have sourced some clips on the internet which are plastic, have a hole in the arm, and are narrower than the pink plastic example in my photo 1 above, but they are relatively expensive at c85 pence each. I think my way forward is:- 1) attempt to glue card to one blade of a yellow clip to insulate the blade from the circuits on the underside of the relay board. 2) try drilling a hole through one of arms of a pink type clip, to attach it to the main board. If none of these are satisfactory, then:- 3) Cough up the best part of a tenner for a bag of 10 of the internet clips, and take the chance they do the job! I really need 14 of them but 4 are for some larger boards that have 2 or 3 relays on them, but no fixing holes. I will have to see if i can make the yellow or pink clips suitable for them where the spacing of the circuit joints is wider. Any suggestions welcome! Cheers Paul

In explanation of the above statement in my last posting, I offer the attached photos:- This first one shows (I hope!) what I am trying to achieve. I have used a piece of plain card in substitution for the MDF or ply that the control panel will be made of. The upper, yellow bulldog clip is clipped to one of my small relay boards and is fine, I can attach it to the board with an arrangement of washers on a screw through the lower metal loop. However these clips are made of metal, and while the blades are painted, I worry that this might not be good enough in the long term to prevent shorting of the circuits on the reverse of the relay board through pressure of the clip on the solder joints wearing away the clip's paint. The lower pink bulldog clip is good as its blades are plastic, but the arms have no way of fixing to the main board unless I can make a hole through the arm. The second photo shows the underside of a relay board and i hope you can see that the runs of circuit are close together and that the mounds of solder on the joints are relatively large. I have sourced some clips on the internet which are plastic, have a hole in the arm, and are narrower than the pink plastic example in my photo 1 above, but they are relatively expensive at c85 pence each. I think my way forward is:- 1) attempt to glue card to one blade of a yellow clip to insulate the blade from the circuits on the underside of the relay board. 2) try drilling a hole through one of arms of a pink type clip, to attach it to the main board. If none of these are satisfactory, then:- 3) Cough up a tenner for a bag of 10 of the internet clips. I really need 14 of them but 4 are for some larger boards that have 2 or 3 relays on them, but no fixing holes. I will have to see if i can make the yellow or pink clips suitable for them where the spacing of the circuit joints is wider. Any suggestions welcome! Cheers Paul

Unfortunately, this saga is not quite over as, curtesy of the Post Office, I am still waiting for the missing exhaust! I know it was put in a post box last Sunday, but has still to arrive! I understand from talking to a postie who delivered a parcel to me Friday afternoon that the LB DO is decimated by illness and vehicle failures. This parcel was sent to me on a 48 hour service on Monday and arrived Friday! Said postie was fed up as he had been waiting around from late morning for a van and then was given one of the smallest of their vans to deliver 96 parcels. Meanwhile for a variety of reasons modelling has not progressed in the last week or so. Even design work on the signal control panel has been slow. One problem has been working out how to attach a number of small one relay sub panels to the main panel. larger sub panels have holes in the corners, but the small ones are around one inch by half an inch in surface with no provision for or space for attachment holes. I an currently testing and sourcing a number of "clips" to hold them. Small bulldog clips seemed ideal, but the smallest ones are metal and while they are painted I am concerned about shorting out of the circuit board strips on the underside of the board. More on this and other aspects of the control board, in my next post, including some long promised photos! Take care all, and enjoy your modelling! Events in eastern Europe, make me more appreciative of my hobbies, and also make me realise that I should not get too concerned about any lack of progress in some aspects. After all, How fortunate I am to be able to follow hobbies and not need to be concerned about the security of the country, where the next meal is coming from, or dodging bombs and bullets! I also hope you are all supporting efforts in your areas to provide help to the Ukrainians?

Glad you are enjoying your first exhibition in ages. Sad though is the loss of Warnie! Why do such good guys die young? Yes, I hated him when he was regularly demolishing the England team, but you had to admire his skill, and since retiring he has been brilliant as part of the commentary teams. On an entirely different sporting subject, it is great to see Ukraine being successful at the winter Paralympics, while Russia is thrown out! So getting back to modelling, those points do look good.

I am pleased to report that this problem has gone away as the chap I bought the bubble car from has found the missing exhaust stack in the box of another bubble car that he is getting ready to sell!

My good news from yesterday, which pales into insignificance against 08221's bad news, is that the chap who sold me the bubblecar has found the missing exhaust. He had put it in the wrong single car unit box! So that's a tenner, or a few hours fettling effort saved! It means this thread can be closed. My thanks to all readers and participants. Take care Paul

08221, I am sorry to hear of your bad news this last week. Such events prompt us all to do things or make mistakes that we would not normally do, so I apologise if my reply seemed uncalled for, it was meant to be light hearted! Take care, and don't give up on making comments! Cheers, Paul

Hi Paul, Good idea! There are a lot of leads that Stephen Freeman has connected to a number of the boards, all colour coded to a sensible scheme, but I am looking to put outer sheaths on a lot of them for neatness. More details on the wiring will follow when I get to putting up sketches of the control panels I am currently designing!

I'm hoping they were allowing for a double track in the future. The line needs more loops to run a more intense service!

If you look back through my thread you will find further pictures and comments on the line. I am currently working out how to get to the new bridge, as the road that runs broadly parallel to the railway in that area is currently closed for some mile either side of the bridge!

News extra - Breaking News! I am pleased to relate some news from Leighton Buzzard Narrow Gauge Railway:- Firstly, the NGR will start the 2022 Season on 13th March. This will witness the first passenger carrying trains through the new Tunnel (Bridge?) through the new eastern ring road. Secondly on 30th April the extension beyond Stonehenge Works to Munday's Hill will open. This will not initially be a station, trains will arrive from Pages Park via Stonehenge and reverse. There will be a run round facility at Munday's Hill, and after a 5 minutes break for this manoeuvre trains will return to Stonehenge. At Stonehenge the trains will halt for 25 minutes then return directly to Pages Park. Because the only passing loops are at Leedon and Stonehenge, near to the ends of the line, the two train timetable will run at 70 minute intervals rather than the current 60 minutes interval. While the line has sufficient engines to run a three train timetable, currently, I think lack of carriages prevents this. Never mind, the future looks good for the line! Cheers All, Paul

Planning of the signal controls board continues. An important decision now made is to have two boards, one for each Megapoint board, rather than one large board. The main reason for this is that one board worked out just too large. The two boards will each be around 10-12inches by 10 inches. I have also given up the idea of edge clips as the input and output wires to most of the boards are not suitable for this, being positioned all round the boards. Another factor I had not initially taken into account is the discovery from an exchange of e mails with Stephen Freeman that the DCC interface boards require a 12/15 volt supply. This means that I need to be careful in the layout of the control board to ensure there is no danger of the DC and AC low voltage supplies being confused. Two boards should also minimise the potential problem with interference to the Servo cables mentioned in my last post. So I am not yet in a position to share a sketch of the boards, but this may get done this coming week. On the "proper" modelling front, an annoying snag I am wrestling with, is that a Hornby Class 121 bubble car that I bought on the Bay because it was in NSE livery with an Oxford destination display, lost one exhaust stack in transit. Replacing it seems to come down to the best part of a tenner in cost and postage from Peter's Spares, or fashioning something out of wire, if I can find some that is thick enough! I hope everyone is making progress in their modelling, Best regards Paul

Hi everyone, I am looking for one of the vertical exhaust stacks from a Hornby Class 121 Unit, to replace one lost in transit! I need the Left hand one(looking at the front of the unit. I guess a Lima unit would do as i don't think Hornby changed the 121 bodyshell, they just updated the chassis. I know they are available from Peter's Spares, but £3.99 plus £5 postage for a pair, when I only need one is a tad expensive! If you have one (or a pair!) please PM me the details? No idea if a Dapol or Bachmann exhaust would fit, but if any one has one (or a pair!), please PM me the details? Also please post here if you have any other suggestions as to a solution to this problem? Many thanks for any help, Best regards Paul

Hi Dave, A couple of points on the shed, although I am no expert on Victorian Goods Sheds! :- 1) How does the "road" side of the shed work? As it stands , the only way even a short horse drawn wagon could be loaded from the platform would be sideways on rather than the more normal end on loading through an opening in the side of the shed? Also the platform as shown is very narrow and would not hold very many items. 2) Is the only way to access the "office" on the end appears to be from inside the shed? Apart from the above, this latest item looks very good! Cheers Paul

Hi All, I have available semaphore signals operated by servos with latching relays from Megapoints servo controllers with Merg DCC interfaces. My question is how do I connect from my NCE Powercab and its System Power Panel to the DCC interfaces? Also, do I control the signals from the Select Accessory button on the Powercab, or should they be set up as a separate cab with a separate controller? Many thanks Paul

How time flies when you are enjoying yourself!? Where have the days since my last Friday's posting gone? Apart from sorting storm damage at mine and my eldest sons homes (nothing serious, just fence panels and plant supports); celebrating same son's Birthday; and commiserating with/supporting from afar youngest son whose daughter, wife and self have all failed Covid tests(!); not a lot seems to have been achieved. However, having spent some time thinking through the installation of my signals, I have decided it would be a good idea to centralise the electrics/electronics for them on what I am calling a “control panel”. This is not a control panel in the sense of having knobs and switches on it but a panel with all the relay boards, Megapoint Servo Controller boards, and DCC interfaces mounted on it. It will be mounted vertically off of the side frame of one of the baseboards. I mention this to Stephen Freeman before doing too much planning of it so that he could tell me anything to take into account in the design which might not be apparent to me from the other documentation. He has raised some valid points which I will take into account about the positioning of the Servo Control boards and servo cables relative to the tracks and also indicated that I might need to shield the cables from interference from the locos. It is a long while since I did anything like this, but I think it will pay dividends in terms of future access and fault finding. It is also a job that I can tackle mostly away from the layout, so can be done when the weather is keeps me out off the Railway Room. So, on with the design. I first need to get an idea of the size in order to decide where it fits best to the base board and legs, probably best done by laying out all the boards on a table to decide on orientation, cable routes etc. although probably the first key decision is how to mount the pcbs to the panel:- The options that occur to me are a) flat on pillars using the screw holes in each corner of the boards, which would be very secure, but the disadvantage is the room needed and therefore the large size of the base panel, or b) on edge using clips along one board edge, which will save a lot of space, but will be less secure, unless I complicate construction by having another panel at right angles to the main one so that clips can be on two edges of the pcbs. Clip location could be an issue as they will need to miss any components on or near the pcb edges, both the physical components and their soldered tails on the underside of the pcbs. Hopefully, the above makes sense, more to follow in a day or two, and maybe a few sketches to explain things! Cheers for now, Paul

Are you going to treat the watermill in the same way?

Fast? A Freight? and on Little Muddle?? Surely not! Or do you mean the passenger train? Regarding the latter, I do have to say the illusion is a little spoilt by the slightly askew rear lamp and the lack of detail on the rear buffer beam! - I'll gloss over the very visible coupling! Seriously, nice composition Kevin, although another variation might be a train waiting on the branch. Three trains in one photo on LM is going some. Keep up the good work! Paul