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KeithMacdonald

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  1. KeithMacdonald

    The Hebridean Light Railway Company

    By KeithMacdonald,


    The Hebridean Light Railway Company
    Yet another PBNB (proposed-but-never-built railway).
     
    In six parts
    1 – Introduction 
    2 – Isleornsay
    3 – Isleornsay to Broadford
    4 – Broadford to Portree
    5 – Portree to Uig
    6 – Branch to Dunvegan
     
    Part 1 - the Introduction
     
    In 1898 it was:
     
    Ref : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebridean_Light_Railway_Company
     
    The main stations would have been at Isleornsay, Broadford, Portree and Uig. With various halts in between, and a branch to Dunvegan.
     
    The following details were published in the Northern Weekly on Thursday the 21st April 1898.
     
    RAILWAY No. 1.
    Commencing on a Pier to be constructed in Isle Ornsay Habour in the Parish of Sleat, Isle of Skye, Inverness-shire, on the foreshore and bed of said harbour in or ex adverso of said Parish at a point 766 yards or thereabouts south-eastwards from Druisdale House, and proceeding from that point, northwestwards along the west shore of Loch-n-Dal passing to the east of the head waters of Loch Eishort into the Parish of Strath and the vallev of the river Airidh-na-Suiridhe passing to the south of the Village of Broadford, keeping to the west and south side of the main road from to Broadford to Portree as far as Skolamus, from whence following the west side of Loch-na-Cairidh, the south-east, south-west and north-west shores of Loch Ainort into the Parish of Portree and thence round the coast to the southern side of Loch Sligachan and across the glen and river of that name. into the Parish of Bracadale through which it passes to the south-west oi Sligachan Inn and to the west of Loch Mor na Caiplaich to the valley of the Varragill river when again entering the Parish of Portree it follows the west side of said river and Portree Loch to the Town of Portree,
    whence turning to the north-west along the valley of the Leasgarv river and passing to the south of Drumuie into the Parish of Snizort and proceeding in a north north-westerly direction to tbe Village of Kensaleyre, whence it follows the east Shore of Loch Eyre and Loch Snizort Beag to Kingsburgh, thence north to Uig Bay and round the eastern and northern sides of same to Uig Pier upon which it terminates at a point about 66 yards from the eastern end of said Pier.
     
    That's quite a verbose mouthful, so let’s start breaking that down into sections…
     
  2. KeithMacdonald

    The Totnes to Dartmouth Extension

    By KeithMacdonald,


    The Totnes to Dartmouth Extension
    Based on a “what-if” scenario, if the GWR had built a line to Dartmouth, putting the GWR “station” building in Dartmouth on a real platform.
     
    Starting in Totnes and proceeding south…
     
    Totnes Station
     
    As was, c.1910. Bottom right is the start of the branch to Totnes Riverside, and the route to Dartmouth. Clearly that would need some enhancement, to provide a better route from Dartmouth back into Totnes.
     

     
    Next, as it should be, c.19xx. The first task is to add an extra curve to provide direct access. The goods shed will have to be moved, but that’s a minor detail.
     

     
    Crossing the existing curve and then rejoining it allows the new curve to be on a larger radius, therefore less severe, on the way to Totnes Riverside.
     
    Totnes Riverside
     
    For a small river dockside siding, with space to exchange cargo with barges or small freighters that can dry out alongside the quay.
     

     
    Perhaps a little like Newham Quay near Truro?
     

     
    Sharpham
     
    To gain favour with the titled (and entitled) occupants of Sharpham House, it was agreed that a short tunnel under the estate was appropriate. Then another one to save climbing a steep hill or a very tight curve around Ashprington Point. Followed by a bridge across Tuckenhay Creek.
     

     
     
    From Tuckenhay Creek bridge ...
     

     
     
    .. alongside the River Dart to another bridge across Dittisham Creek.
     
    To be continued....
     
     
     
  3. KeithMacdonald

    Calne to Hungerford – a missing link in Eastern Wiltshire

    By KeithMacdonald,


    Calne to Hungerford – a missing link in Eastern Wiltshire
    Calne to Hungerford – a missing link in Eastern Wiltshire
     
    By invitation only.
    Summons to Briefing
    Briefing location : Marlborough College, Combined Cadet Force Hut
    Date and time : 30th February, 1940, 09:00
    Normal "Top Secret" rules apply.
    RSVP
     
    Briefing Introduction
     
    Right chaps, glad you all got the invitations, you all know each other, so stand easy and gather round.
     
    Firstly, a hearty “thank you” to the Headmaster, Francis Melville Heywood, whom I’m sure several are already familiar with, from your time here with the Combined Cadet Force, before joining the Army. We are most grateful for the loan of this CCF hut as a planning HQ.
     
    I don’t need to tell you, Britain is in a state of high alert. Besides the many new RAF airfields rapidly being constructed, many new training stations and supplies depots are needed. The Americans have yet to teach us the word “logistics”, so we’re keeping calm and carrying on with “supplies” and “distribution”.
     
    Officially, the M&SWJR here in Marlborough is already an important line for military supplies from the Midlands and further north, via Cheltenham and Tidworth to southern ports. An urgent order has been sent to us from the War Cabinet, to close the gap between Calne and Marlborough. Just as a precautionary measure, you understand, and to enable a diversionary route from Chippenham for supplies and troop movements from the West of England.
     
    Unofficially (and allegedly) the Home Office is also very worried by the high volume of C & T Harris’ sausages and pork pies that are (cough) “disappearing” between Calne and Chippenham. It is felt that a new line, under military supervision will safeguard this vital national asset.
     
    We now have a little slide show, to show you the proposed route.
     
    Lights? Slide one please?
     

     
    Thank you.
     
    The route will be constructed in four sections:
    Calne to Yatesbury
    Yatesbury to Avebury
    Avebury to Lockeridge
    Lockeridge to Marlborough
     
    Next slide please.
     
    Section 1 : Calne to Yatesbury
     
    The newly-built RAF station closest to Calne is RAF Compton Bassett, for top-secret radar and ground wireless training.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Compton_Bassett
     

     
    On higher ground further east is RAF Yatesbury, an operational airfield for pilot training as well as airbourne wireless training.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Yatesbury
     

     
    The main engineering challenge on this section is the steepness of the escarpment, from the lower ground around Calne, climbing up to the higher ground around Yatesbury. Our engineering team, however, has already carefully surveyed the route, and - this is most important – they assure us that the ruling gradient will be no steeper that that already in situ on Caen Hill and the similar ascent from Seend towards Devizes.
     
    Here is the first section of the proposed route, as an extension from the existing Calne Station.
     

     
    To optimise the handling of military traffic, two stations with passing loops will be provided at Compton Bassett and Yatesbury, with additional sidings as circumstances will demand and permit.
     
    (Noises off)
    What's that? Ah, excellent, it's Mrs Miggins with her tea trolley. A short tea break gentlemen?
     
    @The Johnster  commended
    Whilst sipping my cup of Mrs. Miggins' excellent tea, it occurred to me that the War Cabinet may also be considering extending the proposed new line along the Kennet Valley east of Marlborough to make a junction with the West of England main line at Hungerford, with passing stations at Axford and Ramsbury, and have not made this known to us at this time, but that we should prepare ourselves for this eventuality. The passing loops will need to be capable of handling 'full length' 60-wagon trains for war traffic, and the route, though single line, will need to be contructed for the GWR's 'red' route availability.
    Such a route will have useful diversionary capabilities for both the GWML and the WoEML, further reason to make it capable of handling the heaviest locomotives, such as KIngs and 47xx.  I would suggest arranging for the passing loops to be signalled for use bi-directionally, and one loop laid out in each case for fast through running with automatic token exchange equipment. I would strongly reccomend building the formation to be capable of carrying double track throughout should this be required in future.  It will be the first new railway constructed to main line standards in this country for nearly twenty years, and we are honoured to be asked to assist in it's planning.
    Mrs Miggins has asked me to request that you put your empty cups on the tray by the door for her to collect later.
    Carry on and Don't Panic...
     
    I mustn't forget to talk to our colleagues in the Royal Ordnance. Mrs Miggins's recipe for rock cakes might be useful as emergency replacements for hand grenades. Talking of rocks, it's now time for section two.
     
    Section 2 : Yatesbury to Avebury
     
    Engineering-wise, gentlemen, this appears to be a fairly simple section, with no significantly steep gradients. Our main concern is one of Ancient Rights. The brethren of the Ancient Order of Druids (GWR Chapter) have already approved a suggested route that avoids Avebury itself, and also Silbury Hill. Instead, it will go through Avebury Trusloe. For their blessings and goodwill, we will also provide sufficient space for a station for the eagerly-anticipated Druidic University of Avebury (so mote it be).
     

     
    Important Note:
    The actual position of the station in Avebury Trusloe may need reviewing or revising, as we have just been asked to make provision for the North & South Wiltshire Railway (N&SWR) between Swindon and Salisbury.
     
    Section 3 : Avebury to Lockeridge.
     
    This section is the only one that requires the construction of any bridges and cuttings.
     
    In order, from Avebury towards Lockeridge:
    500 yards east of Silbury, a bridge to cross the River Kennett and the A4 road.
    Two bridges near East Kennett, also to cross the River Kennett.
    Two bridges, one north-west and one north-east of Lockeridge, again to cross the River Kennett.
     

     
    Otherwise the route follows the contour of the land, with one cutting required between West Overton and Lockeridge. Drainage close to the river is not a significant problem, as these chalk valleys drain relatively quickly. It is now several thousand years since Neolithic times, when (it is suggested) water levels were much higher and the Kennett was a navigable river all the way to Avebury.
    We are fortunate that there is at hand in the Kennett valley a plentiful supply of Sarcen stones. These are deemed of little value by local farmers and landowners; they are largely an impediment to the application of mechanised agriculture, and the farmers would welcome their removal. Some may be used for bridge foundations, likewise some may be used for the foundations of the Druidic University. The Druids themselves have advised us they are not planning any extensions to Avebury or Stonehenge that would make a claim on these materials.
     
    @The Johnster commended
    This is welcome news. Trust me, you don't want to mess with the Druids, any Welshman will tell you that. The route is bound to impinge on some ancient sites, though; impossible not to in this locality! A point not yet addressed is general mechandise goods facilities at the passing stations. These, if provided, need to be separate from any siding facilities in connection with the war traffic, and will probably need end-loading docks to cater for probably future military traffic 'for the duration'.
     
    Section 4 : Lockeridge to Marlborough
     
    As before, the route follows the line of the Kennett valley, with a gentle rise from Clatford, past Manton, to join the existing M&SWJR railway at Marlborough station. The existing line is shown in red.
     

     
    Regarding Major Johnsters comments (above):
     
    Our esteemed colleague is astonishingly foresightful, as additional orders have indeed just been received from the War Cabinet. We have instructed the surveying team to proceed east along the Kennett Valley, and to prepare proposals for a suitable route. As time is of the essense, Mrs Miggins will equip them with packed meals, including some of her most excellent pork pies.
     
    Comment from @Northroader
     
    One thing that will have to be established is the crossing point with Mikkel’s “Farthing” line:
     

     
    Ref: How to eat an elephant
     
    We will now pause for luncheon, also provided by Mrs Miggins.
     
  4. KeithMacdonald

    The North & South Wiltshire Railway – N&SWR - (Swindon to Salisbury)

    By KeithMacdonald,


    The North & South Wiltshire Railway – N&SWR - (Swindon to Salisbury)
    The North & South Wiltshire Railway – N&SWR - (Swindon to Salisbury)
     
    Preamble
     
    My interest in this was sparked during the development of the Calne & Hungerford Railway by a question from @Northroader
     
     
    Praise where it's due, @Mikkel's Farthing line is excellent in its own right. Please do have a look, it’s worth it.
     
     
    That crossing point is (I believe) near Avebury Trusloe. But (opening a can of worms) I wondered where the rest of the M&SWR went? And where was Mikkel’s Farthing station?
     
    And so it begins...
     
  5. KeithMacdonald

    Lyme Regis stations, with the Funicular Railway

    By KeithMacdonald,


    Lyme Regis stations, with the Funicular Railway
    Lyme Regis stations, with the funicular railway
     
    By way of two reports in the Lyme Regis Gazette and Herald.
     
    Report in the Lyme Regis Gazette and Herald (1st April, 1899)
    By our staff reporter Ronald Waffle.
     
    Grand Opening of The Bridport, Lyme Regis and Axminster Railway (BLR&A)
     
    Today I was privileged to witness a great day in the rich history of our great town of Lyme Regis. A veritable throng of citizens gathered for the grand opening of our newest railway. The newly completed station buildings, and the first train to arrive, were all gaily decorated with ribbons and festooned with the flags of our great nations and Empire Territories.
     
    At the entrance to the station platform, the ribbon was elegantly cut by Lady Bickersydke, the most gracious wife of Lord Bickersydke, the chairman of the BLR&A. The gathered dignitaries then enjoyed a buffet lunch of Mulligatawny Soup, the main course of Jellied Eels, Chips and Gravy, followed by Spotted Dick and Custard, with copious volumes of local cider, During which, Lord Bickersydke made a lengthy speech. During which he announced the plans for many exciting new tourist attractions, including the Northmoor Funicular Railway which will provide a high-speed link between the two railway stations.
     
    Press release of the new railway line (in green), the Northmoor Funicular Railway (in red), linking to the old station and line (in yellow).
     

     
     
    Lyme Regis Gazette and Herald (30th February, 1905)
    By our staff reporter John Caramel.
     
    The Northmoor Funicular Railway, recently opened by Mr Northmoor himself, has indeed proved to be as popular as Mr Northmoor promised, if not more so. Our resident artist has painstakingly created a highly authentic colourised engraving of the funicular in action.
     

     
    Some nervous citizens had expressed their concerns about the safety provisions provided on the funicular. Namely, the very steepness of the descent, and the termination of the descent in case of any unforeseen mechanical malfunction. I was reassured all these issues have been considered; the brakes have been carefully designed to utilise the very latest technology with asbestos linings.
     
    Local entrepeneurs have been quick to respond to potential demand in case of over-excited persons of a nervous disposition, alarmed at the rate of descent, who may have an unfortunate accident of nature. The local haberdashery will be offering a most cost-effective and discrete service, exchanging stained undergarments for new ones, at the very reasonable price of tuppance ha’penny. For impecunious members of the public, the local wash-house will offer a “scrub it yourself” facility.
     
    The route of the funicular railway line has also been carefully chosen.
     

     
    In the unlikely event of a brakes failure, the resident funicular railway engineer assured me that the funicular carriage would come gracefully and safely to a stop on the upward slope from Jericho up to the local cemetery.
     
    I had the temerity to enquire further: “What would happen if it was a high-speed brakes failure?”
     
    The resident funicular railway engineer grimly assured me that there would be such an almighty noise that the walls of Jericho would come tumbling down, and the occupants of the funicular carriage would reach a high-speed terminal end in the cemetery itself.
     
    Footnote
     
    I've been asked : Are Ronald Waffle and John Caramel real names?
     
    Well, I have to confess I borrowed the names from Bob Mortimer, and one of his legendary appearances on "Would I Lie To You". They featured in his tale, apparently true(!), of when he burnt down the family home in Middlesbrough, by (mis)using Standard Fireworks.
     
    Go to YouTube and search for "bob mortimer fireworks".
     
  6. KeithMacdonald

    Ocean Quay and the Mount Wise Dock

    By KeithMacdonald,


    Ocean Quay and the Mount Wise Dock
    Why?
     
    I fancied Ocean Quay as a modelling opportunity. I've not seen it modelled by anyone else (yet?), and I'd been wondering where to find any pictures of the quayside station. There's a few pics of the Stonehouse branch from Devonport station here on this Cornwall Railway Society page.
    http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/millbay-friary--stonehouse-branch.html
     
    But no pics there of the station or quay themselves. The only pic I've found of the station so far is very grainy and small / far away (Father Ted).
    https://wiki2.org/en/Ocean_Quay_railway_station+Newton#Ocean_Quay
     

     
    Anyone found anything better?
     
    The known history
     
    It was originally built by the LSWR to compete with GWR for ocean liner passenger traffic.
     
     
    Ref : https://wiki2.org/en/Ocean_Quay_railway_station+Newton#Ocean_Quay
     
    Firstly, here's what the original LSWR Stonehouse Pool Branch looked like.
     
    The branch starts in Devonport station, and goes under the Goods Shed, to descend towards Stonehouse Bridge. I’ve coloured that part in red to make it more visible.
     

     
    Ref : https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17.7&lat=50.36740&lon=-4.16729&layers=168&b=1&marker=50.673715,-4.613276
     
    When the branch was first built, Stonehouse Pool north of the bridge was still a tidal inlet, with a pier beside the Royal Naval Hospital at the head of the inlet. The whole of that has since been filled-in and is now playing fields.
     
    Here's the branch descending to Stonehouse Bridge.
     

     
    It went under the road through a small tunnel that is still there today and now used as a pedestrian underpass. South of the bridge, the inlet still exists. Here’s the original Richmond Walk section, from Stonehouse Bridge to the quay station.
     

     
    Here’s an enlargement of the station area, as it actually existed. The track is shown here in green. At the point where it crossed the Richmond Walk road, it is still visible to this day in the road surface. Just covered in tarmac and never removed?
     

     
    A copy of Bernard Mill"s "Backtracking around Millbay, Saltash and the Tamar" arrived, and pages 135 to 147 cover the Stonehouse branch, or what remained of it when Bernard got there with his camera in 1965. The rusting track was still in place, but very little else. Page 146-147 just about show the edge of what was the passenger platform.
    Perhaps that means I should use some "creative interpretation" and use some SR-style station platforms, buildings and canopies?
     
    I've just read the small print on that Wiki image, and as it says "This work is in the public domain", I'm taking the liberty of reposting a copy here ;-)
    (with acknowledgements to the original sources. Railway Magazine, May 1904)
     
    Very grainy picture I know, but has anyone seen any model buildings or kits that look similar? The best I've found so far is Scale Scenes new Island Platform.
    https://scalescenes.com/product/r004a-island-platform-building/
     

     
    I've had an idea!
     
    Just suppose, c.1930, that the Richmond Walk Quarry was active long after other quarries in and around Plymouth were being exhausted. And while they were quarrying out the hillside above Richmond Walk, they found an incredibly rare and valuable form of granite. Known, err, as Dumnonian, after the earliest known inhabitants of Devon. They built a few quarry sidings and kept quarrying by tunnelling into the hillside (tunnels in brown). At the same time, the station was expanded to allow access for longer passenger trains.
     

     
    Ocean Quay Station, first stage of improvements, with more track round the Jetty area.
     

     
    Of course, all the spoil from the quarrying had to go somewhere. So they widened Richmond Walk northwards alongside the Tamar, below Mount Wise. What was Blagdons Yard slipway was filled-in, and deep-water docks were made to export the valuable granite, with one of the tunnels emerging there as well.
     

     
    Come 1940-1945, the dock and the extra tunnels under the hillside were much used, and the area was known as Mount Wise Dock, or HMS Hades - but that’s another story.
     
    After 1945, a bit of a decline, but then (hurrah!) the Mount Wise Dock was converted into a small container port for the Royal Fleet Auxiliary and Ro-Ro Sealift operations. After 2000-ish, security was relaxed and there's small civilian container ships there now as well.
     

    https://scalescenes.com/product/t030c-modern-cargo-ship/
     
    Good news chaps!
     
    Ocean Quay Station is still active and attracts many Heritage Steam Specials, GWR Railcars, etc, with unusual ships (for the area) like one of the Clyde Puffers that became resident.
     

    https://scalescenes.com/product/t030b-clyde-puffer/
     
    Lots of unusual freight passes through on its way to Mount Wise Docks. Much of it still waiting its turn in the old quarry sidings.
     
    Some say that there is another still-secret railway tunnel into Devonport. Rumours of another GWR Strategic Steam Reserve in the Dumnonian Tunnels (like Box Tunnel) are still being denied, despite the late-night arrivals of best Welsh Anthracite (under cover of darkness), and strange puffing noises from the old tunnels ... 😲
     
  7. KeithMacdonald

    The Dawlish Avoiding Line

    By KeithMacdonald,


    The Dawlish Avoiding Line
    Introduction
     
    This relates to the Dawlish Avoiding Line as proposed in 1933. Not to be confused with the Dawlish Avoiding Line re-proposed 2012 and onwards
    I'd dithered about where to put this topic.
     
    Option 1 : Imaginary Railways?
    Well, no, because it was granted approval and land was acquired, route surveying started in Spring 1939, with poles along the proposed route. So it was no longer imaginary or just proposed.
    Option 2: Disused Railways?
    Well, no, because when World War II started, all work stopped. So it never got as far as being a Used Railway that became Disused.
    Option 3: Railways of Devon? (here)
    Well yes, because it really was started but then abandoned, and it was entirely in Devon. So here it is.😉
     
    What was the scheme?
     
    This description on Wikipedia is confusing, because it conflates several of the route options.
     
     
    Ref : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawlish_Avoiding_Line
     
    Later on, the shorter route is mentioned.
     
     
    Which is as clear as mud. What route did they actually start building?
     
    The evidence comes from the land acquired by the GWR, and the actual surveying work done.
     
     

     
    Ref: https://www.bishopsteigntonheritage.co.uk/environment/rails-through-bishopsteignton/
     
     
    Using the OS One Inch map from 1957, which shows the contours, we can get a pretty good idea of a route the GWR Engineers might have chosen (a) to maximise the use of what valleys and flat ground was available and (b) to minimise the tunnelling. 
     
    Green is above ground, brown is underground through the sedimentary Devonian Sandstone.
    https://www.devon.gov.uk/geology/devons-rocks-a-geological-guide/
     
    Have we got any geologists in the house who can advise us on the relative difficulty or ease of tunnelling through Devonian Sandstone?
     

     
    Starting at Easdon, south of Cockwood harbour and the existing Starcross station. From there, running roughly south-west, parallel to Shutterton Stream, to Shutterton Bridge. At that point, turning slightly further to south-south-west to get into the Dawlish Water valley. Then in the Aller valley towards Southwood Farm, before the longest tunnel under Holcombe Down towards Bishopsteignton. Crossing a couple of small valleys and two spurs with smaller tunnels before reaching the old route near Luxton's Steps.
     
    @Cowley 47521 asked:
    So if the scheme had gone ahead, would the coastal route have remained in place to continue to serve Dawlish and Teignmouth, or would that have been done away with in the long term?
     
    Excellent questions!
    In Dawlish, it might depend whether the proposed route, with a "nine arch red sandstone viaduct bridging a valley" would have left enough space for a "New Dawlish" station. If it crossed Dawlish Water somewhere close to Stonelands Bridge, there might have been. Which could have made the seafront station redundant.
     

     
    Teignmouth is more complicated. The docks had their own sidings, and were well-used, exporting ball clay, etc, and importing coal, etc.
    Teignmouth Gas Works .. had been built in 1840 therefore pre-dates the railway. The coal to make the gas (it was cooked in large ovens called retorts) was brought into Teignmouth Docks from South Wales and brought round from the docks in barges or lighters.
     

     
    Would the existing line have become a branch from Bishopsteignton? We can only guess.
     
    For those interested in the 21st century proposed routes, Devon Live has a good article from 2020 with maps of the three main options.
    Reopen the old Southern route via Okehampton and Tavistock
    Reopen the old GWR Teign Valley Line.
    Build a new diversionary route that bypasses Dawlish and Teignmouth
    See : https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/dawlish-avoiding-train-line-south-3746866
     
    For the diversionary route, there were also five sub-options, of varying lengths, complexity and cost. The much-more expensive options C1 to C4 were probably "stalking horses" for option C5, which was the shortest route and the cheapest option (relatively speaking) at "only" £1.49 billion. Coincidently option C5 is the closest to one of the GWR routes chosen in 1935, costed back then at £3 million.
     
    In Bishopsteignton, depending on which scheme/route one looks at, the new line would have joined the old line somewhere around Luxton's Steps or Flow Point.
    Would there have been a Bishopsteignton Junction station, and if so, where?
     

     
    I'm assuming the GWR Engineers would also have a lot of tunnelling spoil to dispose of. Flow Point (also known as Floor Point) had more space, and historically had been a place to import thousands of tons of coal, culm, and timber every year. So, depending on how and where the GWR intended to dispose of the spoil, perhaps there would have been a Bishopsteignton Junction station near Luxton's Steps and a siding at Flow Point for spoil to be removed by barge?
     
    Another option occurred to me - i.e. the GWR could have just dumped the spoil in the river. This, of course, wasn't an era when they would have to do Environmental Risk Assessments (or anything like that). But fishermen may have complained about the pollution and damage to mussels and oyster fishing grounds. Plus Teignmouth Docks might have complained about the River Teign silting up even more that it already had thanks to centuries of mining spoil washing downstream from mining on Dartmoor.
     
    Some second thoughts on the potential route. I'm imagining that the GWR engineers would have been very keen on minimising the length of any tunnels, because of the effort. Plus GWR accountants would want the same, because of cost. So after a spell with my divining rods (and map measuring tools), here's a second option. Go further up the Aller valley to Lidwell. 
     

     
    Coincidently, that route would take it under Little Haldon Hill. In the 1930s, the area marked as "Golf Course" on the map was Haldon Aerodrome, used by GWR Air Service, with a GWR air mail service.
    https://www.bfdc.co.uk/1973/souvenir_covers/gwr_air_service.html
     
    Haldon Aerodrome was the first airfield in Devon. Established in the 1920s as a private flying field, it developed into an airport with scheduled airline service, and was used by the Navy during World War II. The airport has also been known as Teignmouth Airport, Little Haldon Airfield and, in its military days, RNAS Haldon and HMS Heron II.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haldon_Aerodrome
     

     
    Where a few fascinating characters (like Air Commodore Whitney straight) learned to fly.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitney_Straight
     
    @Ramblin Rich commented
     
    This is in the "Proposed GWR electrification in the 1930s/1940s?" thread, which I know Keith posted in and probably prompted this thread! Using a mobile so can't get quotes to work.
    On 15/11/2022 at 14:34, The Stationmaster said:
    The usual - not very good  - diversion route was the Teign Valley line.  But the electrification proposal was still around at the time of the new GWR inland main line route avoiding Dawlish and Teignmouth which, in its final (1937 iteration) left the existing line just east of Exminster station (5 miles nearer to Exeter than the 1936 proposal, and therefore also east of the 1936 breach of the route near the mouth of the  River Kenn) and rejoined the existing line immediately east of Hackney Canal bridge  which lay at the east end of Hackney Yard at Newton Abbot.  Although some land had been purchased and various works, including marking out some of the route, were carried out due to financial reasons the GWR agreed with Govt in 1937 that the some work would be suspended and the intended opening date would be pushed back from 1941 to 1945.,  The war of course further changed things but post-war the completion date was rescheduled for 1949 before the scheme was finally cancelled.
    The final, 1937, version had a maximum gradient of 1 in 150 and involved a number of tunnels, with no intermediate stations although it is quite likely that one might well have been added to serve Dawlish and/or Teignmouth.   The existing route would not have been closed.
    Note the last sentence, the existing  line would remain open. I would have thought the traffic potential of Dawlish and Teignmouth would have demanded the coast line be kept, even if downgraded to locals and occasional through expresses. I love the idea of GWR's equivalent of a Swiss Crocodile in Brunswick green humming over a viaduct inland of Dawlish with the Torbay Express, while a Prarie and B-set chuff along the seawall with a connecting local...

     
    On the Dawlish website
    https://dawlish.com/thread/details/33613
     
    I've just seen this comment:
    All plans and information can be seen in 'Exeter -- Newton Abbot; A Railway History' by Peter Kay and published by Platform 5 1991
     
    Just to recap the story so far.
     
    At the northern end of the Avoiding Line, there were (at least) three options - i.e. for where the new line would have diverged from the existing line.
    Exminster
    Kenton
    Easton (Starcross)




    One might have assumed they all then went by separate routes towards Newton Abbot. Mention of joining "the existing line immediately east of Hackney Canal bridge" can easily cause confusion, as one might assume it went directly in that direction. Actually, all three routes converged in the "Old Dawlish" area, and then headed towards Bishopsteignton, but didn't rejoin the old line there. The new line would have run roughly parallel to the old line, before joining east of Hackney Canal bridge. The reason being to minimise the gradient.
     

     
    Note: I was sent this map, but the sender didn't mention where it came from. The footnote on the map makes me think it might be that book 'Exeter -- Newton Abbot; A Railway History' by Peter Kay. If so, all acknowledgements and copyright etc.


    New Schemes

    People still come up with new schemes. Here's one from a Mark Townend, who describes it thus:
     
    I live in Torquay and prevously worked for many years in the rail industry and related consultancies in London, the South East and Midlands. I have come up with an alternative Dawlish Avoiding Line suggestion that cuts around five miles from the Exeter to Newton Abbot route by taking a new direct route tunnelling under the Haldon hills, and connects to existing routes near Heathfield and Alphington. Although partly reusing the right of way of the old Teign Valley route at its extremities this would actually be entirely new double track construction cutting off the 'Heathfield corner' through the ball clay pits and avoiding the slow winding progression along the valley via Dunsford. Interestingly at around 14 miles this is no greater in length than the longer variants of the GWR 1930s inspired options and goes through less populated country, some of it 'brownfield' (the clay pits) and some following an existing busy transport corridor (the A38).
    Map, gradient profile, etc on his own website:
    http://www.townend.me/files/southdevon.pdf
     
    Dawlish website
     
    Just noticed some more comments about DAL from 2014 on the Dawlish website:
     
    Firstly, on properties the GWR acquired:
     
    In the 1930s the GWR bought at least some properties that it would have to demolished in Dawlish.  One notable example was the vicarage on Weech Rd.  This was right on the alignment of the line from Exminster / Powderham.  Ever frugal, the GWR made this large building into the residence for the Dawlish Stationmaster.  It stayed thus into at least the 1950s and I remember the stationmaster as having one of the best houses in town!  This building has now been demolished except for the white stone perimeter wall on the south side of Weech Rd.
     
    Then on the routes from the north into Dawlish:
     
    The shorter route, starting just north of Dawlish Warren station (Eastdon) would have cut across the top end of Dawlish, partly in a tunnel and with bridges over (or under?) Badlake Hill and Weech Rd. near their junction.  There would then have been a massive embankment across the western end of The Newhay and loss of about half of this park area.  After that the line then have skirted the mill pond (for the mills in Church St. and Brunswick Place) which is still there at the top end of The Newhay but which is now more of a marsh than a pond. The route beside the mill pond and the adjacent Luscombe Estate lake would have been on a viaduct.  After that it would have joined the alignment of the other two proposed routes from Exminster and Powderham.
     
    And the one route heading south:
     
    The route would then have followed the Aller Valley road for a bit crossing over Aller Brook roughly where the current ford is on the lane that goes up towards Holcombe.  Finally, it would have disappeared into a long tunnel on the south side of the Aller Valley emerging on Exeter Road in Teignmouth somewhere up behind Teignmouth College near the junction of Exeter Rd. and New Rd.  The last bit to Hackney  was a gradual descent paralleling the current line but at a higher elevation till the old and new routes rejoined at Hackney.
     
    Ref https://dawlish.com/thread/details/33613
     
    All of the above helps us with exact positions and references to pinpoint the route(s) would have taken through Old Dawlish.
     
    I've colour-coded some of the sections.
    Brown = tunnels
    Cyan = cuttings
    Dark blue = embankments
    Violet = viaducts
     
    I'm assuming they wouldn't have built a new station on the viaduct, and from the shape and positions of the northern-most cuttings and embankments they don't seem a likely choice either. Does the likeliest position seem to be on the south side, south-west of the Mill Pond?

    @Cowley 47521 commented
    This has answered so many questions I’ve had for a really long time.
    Really good work Keith.

    @Ramblin Rich commented
    Those line drawn maps are very interesting! The 'Powderham route' would cut through the southern end of Powderham castle grounds and also looks like it cuts off the 'wiggle' past the current yacht club, presumably to increase the line speed through there.
    There's currently a lot of house building around Dawlish, including around Shutterton - right in the path of the Dawlish Warren route 🙄
     
    Yes, looks like that, just where the map says "old line to be abandoned". Perhaps that was to raise the line on an embankment, away from the river, and above the flood plain in the Kenton area?

    @Peter Kazmierczak commented
    Peter Kay's book (mentioned above) is the one to go to for full details of the varying route options. Also for various proposals at Teignmouth over the years, to provide increased capacity and passing loops there.

    @DCB commented
    I don't see any problem with the cut off route not having any stations.   The local service tended and continues to be principally Exeter to Paignton, It is / was pretty frequent and long distance travelers would have to change at Newton or Exeter as they do at present.   The gradients are less than up Whiteball so the train loads on Newton to Taunton trains wouldn't have been affected though Newton to Exeter loads over the short route would have needed to be reduced compared to the 80 wagons behind a 2-6-2T of the Edwardian era.    I just see Exeter taking over from Newton as engine changing point on Torbay services especially dated summer services, Big winners would have been Ocean Liner trains, a big deal pre 1960 and the Jet Era and timekeeping on Plymouth and Penzance expresses.  I can't think many people travelled from Dawlish and Teignmouth to Totnes /Plymouth / Penzance etc.  It would be like the Weston Super Mare  cut off,  athough whether it would have survived Beeching is another matter.
     
    @Cowley 47521 commented
    That latter point is an interesting one. Perhaps a Dawlish and Teignmouth Parkway on the new line (shudder) and the original route turned into a walkway/cycle route through the tunnels eventually? I wonder what the time saving on the new faster route would have been with no stops between Exeter and Newton Abbot?
     
    The map gives a clue i.e. the mileposts. Two miles shorter on the new DAL. I'm not sure if my memory is playing tricks, but IIRC there was a speed limit through Dawlish and Teignmouth. Did the old coastal line have speed restrictions?

    @Ramblin Rich commented
    Fairly sharp corners at Powderham, Starcross, Langstone, past Dawlish and into Teignmouth. Fairly sure the line speed is 90 mph from St Thomas but then 75 at most from Powderham onwards. You could imagine a nice new line built in the 1930s being at least 90 mph all along and that also being the reason for the short cutoff at the start of the Powderham route.

    @Mike_Walker commented
    The current maximum permitted speeds are:
    100mph  Alphington 195m 40c to Powderham 200m 60c
    75mph    Powderham to Cockwood 203m 00c
    80mph    Cockwood to Dawlish Warren 204m 60c
    70mph    Dawlish Warren to 205m 10c
    75mph    205m 10c to Dawlish 206m 00c
    60mph    Dawlish to Parsons Tnl (W. End) 207m 55c
    75mph    Parsons Tnl to approaching Teignmouth 208m 45c
    60mph    Teignmouth to 209m 65c (just west of Shaldon bridge)
    80mph    209m 65c to 210m 20c
    90mph    210m 20c to 212m 60c approaching Hackney Yard
    There is a 60mph limit throughout for trains running "Bang Road" between Dawlish Warren and Teignmouth - that is in the the Down direction on the Up Main.
    The permissible speeds would have probably been lower in the steam and early diesel eras.

     
    Correspondence with Dawlish Museum
     
    I sent Dawlish Museum an email:
     
    Dear Dawlish Museum
    I wonder if, in your collection, you still have any plans or maps for the Dawlish Avoiding Railway Line as planned by the old GWR in the 1930s? In particular, the route the line might have taken through Dawlish.
     
    Andrew Wright, a volunteer at Dawlish Museum, has kindly just replied, quoting from Peter Kay's book, and confirming that as the source of those maps above. They have the book in the museum.
     
    Hi, I have taken a quick look in Peter Kays book and there is a chapter 18 pages 239 to 233 covering the Dawlish avoiding line.
     
    He also quoted one crucial item from the book.
    Between November 1935 and April 29136 contracts were let for the sinking of
    exploratory boreholes for the tunnels and at Hackney. But even before the 1936 Act was passed, the GWR had decided against the Dawlish Warren route (although this had not been publicly divulged).
     
    Acknowledgements and copyright Peter Kay
     
    To paraphrase the part of the book on the section of the DAL through Dawlish:-
    NIMBY citizens of Dawlish raised a lot of opposition. The existing seafront line was already an eyesore and a blot on the landscape. Folk feared the DAL would ruin the old part of the town as well (parklands and meadows). Dawlish UDC initially opposed the Bill, and then got a protection clause in the Act specifying a 130 yard long viaduct in Newhay, to be made of red sandstone or similar, and a bridge over Dawlish Water.
     
    (I've now got a song by Simon and Garfunkel going through my mind)
     
    The Dawlish Gazette carried articles complaining; which incidently has been its modus operandi for decades. Not for nothing was it known to some locals as the Dawlish Guts Ache. 
     
    @Michael Hodgson commented
    There's a different song comes to my mind ....
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvuQJNVDJYk
    Devon is slightly further from Westminster than Hull.  Perhaps you just have to wait slightly longer ?
     
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