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The North & South Wiltshire Railway – N&SWR - (Swindon to Salisbury)


The North & South Wiltshire Railway – N&SWR - (Swindon to Salisbury)

 

Preamble

 

My interest in this was sparked during the development of the Calne & Hungerford Railway by a question from @Northroader

 

Quote

One thing that will have to be established is the crossing point with Mikkel’s “Farthing” line:

 

Praise where it's due, @Mikkel's Farthing line is excellent in its own right. Please do have a look, it’s worth it.

 

 

That crossing point is (I believe) near Avebury Trusloe. But (opening a can of worms) I wondered where the rest of the M&SWR went? And where was Mikkel’s Farthing station?

 

And so it begins...

 

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Introduction

 

The title implies a journey from the north of Wiltshire (in Swindon) to the south (in Salisbury),

 

Sections

  • Swindon to Avebury
  • Avebury to Upavon (via Woodborough)
  • Upavon to Salisbury

However:

When I came to study the proposed scheme, and potential routes, I realised it would need to climb steeply out of the Pewsey Vale and then northwards over the highest land in Wiltshire. That limits where and how it climbs out of the Pewsey Vale. Which limits how it gets into the Pewsey Vale. But, as there’s only one way, up the Avon valley, I decided to tackle the route “upside-down”, starting in Salisbury and heading north. That is:

 

  • Section 1 - Salisbury to Upavon (via Amesbury)
  • Section 2 - Upavon to Avebury (via Woodborough)
  • Section 3 - Avebury to Swindon

 

How I chose Woodborough will be explained.

 

Section 1 (Salisbury to Upavon) will include

  • Salisbury terminus
  • The Old Sarum bypass
  • The Woodford slalom
  • The approach to Amesbury
  • Amesbury Junction
  • Woodhenge and Durrington
  • Figeldean and Netheravon
  • Upavon

 

Section 2 (Upavon to Avebury) will include

  • Route options (A B C and D)
  • Upavon
  • Manningford
  • Woodborough Junction
  • All Cannings
  • Bishop Cannings

 

Section 3 (Avebury to Swindon) will include

  • Avebury Junction
  • Berwick Bassett
  • Broad Hinton
  • Wroughton
  • Swindon

More soon...

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Section 1 of the N&SWR (Salisbury to Upavon)

 

Extension from Salisbury Terminus station

 

As this was a GWR scheme, the very first job is altering the existing GWR Terminus and starting to extend the line.

 

Here’s a much-simplified version of the tracks. GWR in yellow, and for contrast, their arch-rivals the L&SWR / SR in green. I have assumed GWR would avoid a huge change to the terminus building by using what was the goods yards to add-on a through-station with a passing loop.

 

image.png.eb0d529e1d696d37f8013712a54905f4.png

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16.6&lat=51.07193&lon=-1.80436&layers=178&b=1

 

A new GWR line would first need to cross Fisherton Street. Then run roughly parallel to the existing L&WSR lines, for about a mile on a new raised embankment, across the low lying valley (liable to floods). Before turning left and heading north towards Old Sarum. How far east that would go might depend on how tight a curve they wanted in and out of the station before heading north up the Avon valley, past Old Sarum. Plus a decision: which side of the river should they try and stay on?

 

image.png.6fc86cb9c3cec18c470bcfe93d95701c.png

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=14.6&lat=51.08200&lon=-1.80972&layers=10&b=1

 

I’ve assumed they would not want a tight curve, and would go up the middle. As Old Sarum is a good tourist atraction, perhaps a small station at Straford sub Castle?

 

The Woodford Slalom

 

The preferred side of the river could change several times, depending on which side had the steepest ground i.e. that would usually be the side to avoid. A “Heavy Railway” could go right up the middle, in a fairly straight line, with bridges all over the place. But we’re building it as a Light Railway, to minimise the engineering of bridges and tunnels.

 

image.png.5d29419086397fd910402fd5c1d324ec.png

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=13.9&lat=51.12934&lon=-1.82862&layers=10&b=1

 

Sometimes the steep sides are hard to avoid. The area around the Woodford villages is a good example, with several sharp turns in the river. Great Durnsford – great in name, but not in size.

 

You might (I hope) have noticed by now that this route has lots of small villages to pass by, but not many big towns. How many villages would have demanded or needed a station? Sounds much like a M&SWJR route.

 

The approach to Amesbury

 

Amesbury already has two railway operators, it’s about to get a third.

 

The existing ones are

  • L&SWR on the branch that terminates at Amesbury.
  • Bulford Military Railway, from Amesbury to Bulford barracks.

Would the GWR have negotiated access to Amesbury station, to avoid building a new one? Let’s assume so … top right is the existing Amesbury station and the L&SWR line in green.

 

image.png.a022214dd00167fffd345890adcbb001.png

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=13.9&lat=51.16402&lon=-1.80624&layers=10&b=1

 

Amesbury Station (and another scheme)

 

You might be wondering (I hope you are) – Why did the L&SWR have a branch that terminates at Amesbury?

 

The answer – It wasn’t meant to be a terminus, the original scheme (a few years earlier) had been for a line across Salisbury Plain (via Shrewton and Imber) and then all the way to Bristol – right across prime GWR territory!

 

The scheme must have sounded definite enough for Bartholomew to put it on their Half-Inch map (c.1902) – with a line from Amesbury (bottom right) – then running across Durrington Down, north of The Cursus, then west to “Shrewton Station” (top-left).

 

image.png.accb26117b23f9706dad814d3fdce252.png

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=13.5&lat=51.18881&lon=-1.82395&layers=156&b=1

 

Then again – Bartholomew’s 1902 map also showed a railway tunnel to the Isle of Wight, near Hurst Castle. But that, as they say, is another story.

 

image.png.f82b7917ab3a8011af0de7d43f89d819.png

 

 

Woodhenge and Durrington

 

I’m assuming not even the almighty GWR would mess with a couple of the biggest Ancient Monuments in Britain. Or would they? For now, I’m “playing nice” and assuming a route on the east of the river. That continues the theme of a Light Railway avoiding river crossings which would need bridges. Is Durrington big enough for a station? Or at least some sidings for supplies.

 

image.png.182e9864760aecd2feb3600d672cafca.png

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=13.9&lat=51.19969&lon=-1.77863&layers=10&b=1

 

Netheravon

 

With a siding for the Netheravon camp and supplies for the airfield.

 

image.png.c96a298587762f2c5024c70ebd7cadd1.png

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=13.9&lat=51.23767&lon=-1.78311&layers=10&b=1

 

Upavon is a hub for a lot of agricultural activity. Beside growing a lot of wheat and barley, it has flour mills. So a station with some sidings and cattle docks required here?

 

image.png.f49f9e8b081f4a08d99750556a2596d9.png

 

End of Section One.

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Fantastic stuff, Keith, a whole new world has opened up.

 

The Station Master at Farthing is particularly grateful. For years now he's been sending trains in all directions without being quite sure how they actually reached their destinations 🙂

 

He does worry a bit about the light railway designation, but that's not for him to decide and he is not one to rock the boat.

 

 

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The GWR did plan a light railway approximating to your plan, between Salisbury and Pewsey. (Presume this faced west from Salisbury terminus,  diverging soon after at Bemerton, then swinging North)

 

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amesbury_and_Military_Camp_Light_Railway

 

For my money, I would take it west of Amesbury, keeping clear of the LSWR, also bringing tourists much closer to Stonehenge. Then after Upavon swing further west away from Pewsey, as for a through route the Tan Hill Alps would be impassable. I can visualise an 850 class 0-6-0ST with some clapped out four wheelers at Amesbury (for Stonehenge) GWR station now.

Edited by Northroader
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Section Two : Upavon to Avebury - Choosing the route options (A B C and D)

 

More regarding the possible location of Farthing on the "North & South Railway" line from Swindon to Salisbury. The southern part of the route (Salisbury to Upavon) is the easiest to decide, as it would be in the Avon valley, and fairly flat. When I first looked, I was unsure how they would have dealt with the northern part (Upavon to Swindon). The floor of Pewsey Vale is on or about the 400 feet contour. To climb out of the Vale directly, within one mile, it ascends to nearly 800 feet, to skirt past the highest points in Wiltshire (Tan Hill, Milk Hill, Knap Hill, c.900 feet).

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=13.8&lat=51.36035&lon=-1.84374&layers=10&b=1

 

By way of contrast, west of Devizes at Caen Hill, the line climbed about 200 feet in 1.5 miles. The alternatives, to avoid a steep climb, means going further east or west.

 

I have two ways to respond.

 

1) apply "careful ignoral" and artfully claim their northern section (Woodborough to Swindon) "must" have gone from near Pewsey and joined the M&SWJR near Savernake. Based on no evidence at all and wishful thinking.

or

2) acknowledge the possibility of another route out of the Pewsey Vale to Swindon, probably via Avebury.

 

Which option would you go for? 🤔

Option 2 sounds more interesting to me. 🙂

 

After emerging from the Avon Valley, into the Manningford Bruce area, how many route options were there? Manningford Bruce is at the bottom of this map. The existing GWR east-west line (Pewsey-Devizes) is in yellow. Four potential routes are in green.

 

image.png.af281a30371debdbefefc115195a194e.png

 

 

From left to right:

A: connect to the existing line at Woodborough, use the existing line to Devizes, then head north-east to Avebury

B: connect to the existing line at Woodborough, north-west to cut the corner through the Cannings, then head north-east

C: full-frontal assault, directly up the ridge towards Alton Priors

D: connect to the existing line near Pewsey, then go east to a new junction with the M&SWJR

 

Option A - West to Devizes

 

This has some appeal, because Devizes already has a station doesn't it? Which could become a Devizes Junction station for both the existing line, and the new line to Avebury. Here’s the existing Devizes with the addition of a new line curving away to the north, crossing the Kennett and Avon canal, plus a bay platform (in green).

 

image.png.a5842abf9360add8ee284d20ec691682.png

 

Suddenly, with the addition of the bay platform to a substantial station building, I’m wondering (roll of drums please) - could Devizes be the hidden location of Farthing?

 

From Flickr, here’s one grainy picture of Devizes Station with 5542 Collett 2-6-2T (allocated to Westbury shed 1957-61) and a pair of coaches - perhaps a Suburban B-Set?

 

5542, filthy in the snow at Devizes station

 

Zooming out a bit, we can see the potential route up through Roundway and past Devizes Barracks.

 

image.png.4293394aeae1fc16905c694a598b154d.png

 

A halt station and sidings at the barracks could be useful. It would have been useful in 1945, when Devizes Barracks was a host for an example of a strange phenomena – there were more German troops in Britain than British troops. Granted the Germans were all POW, but still a strange situation.

 

Option B - North-West to All Cannings

 

Here in red is Option B as the Upavon-to-Avebury part of the "North & South Railway" line. It emerges from the Avon river valley in the south. Then it forms a new junction with the GWR line at Woodborough. That would surely demand an enlarged station there, could that be Farthing?

 

After that, going north west the climb diagonally up the escarpment on the north side of Pewsey Vale, to loop around Bishops Cannings. Then north-east to run parallel to the Devizes road into Beckhampton and then into Avebury Trusloe.

 

image.png.4f534929e7eadd8a876f03fcce94a41a.png

 

With acknowledgements to RailMapOnline.

 

Option C - directly up the ridge towards Alton Priors

 

What can we say? A 400 feet climb in just one mile would put off even the hardiest of railway engineers, so probably the least likely option, unless we fancy a rack-and-pinion track?

 

Alton Priors main claim to fame nowadays is being the Centre Of The Universe for crop circles. Many people would make a pilgrimage every year to the Crop Circle Conference in Marlborough.

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=13.8&lat=51.36770&lon=-1.91254&layers=10&b=1

 

Option D - East to Wootten Rivers

 

The eastward option, to somewhere like Wootton Rivers, almost as far as Savernake. At which point, it can hardly avoid joining the M&WJR? Does it "ring true" to you?

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=13.8&lat=51.37442&lon=-1.72883&layers=10&b=1


Which route would you choose?

 

If we decide options C and D are not appropriate, that leaves us with options A and B, both of which need a junction at Woodborough.

 

So the route now goes:

  • Upavon
  • Manningford
  • Woodborough Junction
  • Devizes and/or All Cannings & Bishop Cannings
  • Avebury

 

See above for Devizes. Details on the other individual stations to follow.

 

Edited by KeithMacdonald
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Section Two : Upavon to Avebury - the other stations.

 

With the route emerging from the Avon valley into the Vale of Pewsey.

 

image.png.88d5768ed4601218b0b2fcc690a73b25.png

 

Perhaps a station at Manningford Bohune? It would need a name to distinguish it from Manningford Halt on the main line.

 

Manningford to Woodborough Junction

 

A gently curving segment, merging with the existing track at Woodborough, which now becomes a junction station.

 

image.png.9381cdc0761299a002842d5f93b51b1e.png

 

Woodborough Junction

 

Here’s the original layout of the GWR line from Pewsey, before the N&SWR arrived.

 

image.png.a9dda29c4fc34b7513093ea695b00a88.png

 

Now with an additional siding and a crossing so that the N&SWR (in green) could run through from the north or south. Along with a signal box, a bay platform and a passing loop. Could Woodborough now have been an important enough station to have a full station with canopies?

 

image.png.9af0e348d7d59d58b91c175908f020d6.png

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=12.9&lat=50.73011&lon=-1.54339&layers=156&b=1

 

Breaking news!

When we excavated land on the south of the old Woodborough station to make room for the N&SWR, we were digging through some unusually soft and crumbly chalk layers. I've just been told by the GWR surveyors that we will need to build a long retaining arch wall, the whole length of the bay platform, to stop the soft chalk cliff falling onto the track and platform. The architects at Ratio have already given us a drawing; it will look something like this:

 

image.png.fd9067be3be65716fe6c45d68b6017b7.png

 

Can we change that grey for a red brick?

 

Woodborough Junction to All Cannings Station

 

With a gradual climb from Woodborough Junction (bottom right) to All Cannings (top left) – with a small Halt platform perhaps? To reduce costs, it could be a simple timber-frame construction, using wood from the nearby Honey Street saw mill.

 

image.png.464162224672c40df652441637bd0c98.png

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=13.9&lat=51.35479&lon=-1.87822&layers=10&b=1

 

All Cannings to Bishop Cannings

 

Bishop Cannings to also have a wooden Halt station?

 

image.png.ffc0c7dc89338ee240af7b58c43245df.png

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=13.9&lat=51.37560&lon=-1.93950&layers=10&b=1

 

Bishop Cannings to Avebury

 

Here's the last leg of this section. Bishop Cannings is bottom-left, Avebury is top-right, with a junction station, showing a small part of the Calne-to-Hungerford railway, which is expected to start construction very soon.

 

image.png.a857b873af3f22029de5a63572fe3cc0.png

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=13.6&lat=51.40349&lon=-1.91489&layers=10&b=1

 

We have been given an advance copy of the track layout of the expected Avebury Junction station.

 

image.png.5d8dd5836120542a0b8ec2dde37925cb.png

 

After amicable negotiations with the trustees of the Calne & Hungerford scheme, a mutually-acceptable solution has been found to avoid the two lines crossing at 90 degrees to each other, with all the complications and potential conflicts that implied. The Calne & Hungerford line is shown in green. When built, the C&H will include an extra loop around the north of Windmill Hill. This will only add a few hundred yards to the length of their line. The cost of which is more than offset by the benefits (and savings) of sharing an existing N&SWR station in Avebury Trusloe. Space will be reserved on the Avebury Trusloe station site for bay platforms and exchange sidings.

 

End of Section Two.

Edited by KeithMacdonald
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4 hours ago, Northroader said:

I can visualise an 850 class 0-6-0ST with some clapped out four wheelers at Amesbury (for Stonehenge) GWR station now.

 

Yes indeed. Exactly as with the M&SWJR, built through sparsely-populated rural areas, the N&SWR always struggled to reach worthwhile volumes of passengers. Those passengers that did use the N&SWR were quick to notice that in typical GWR fashion, all the oldest locos and coaches had been relegated to the struggling N&SWR, clanking loudly and rattling horribly as they chugged along. It quickly became known as the "Noisy and Slow".

 

 

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14 hours ago, Mikkel said:

The Station Master at Farthing is particularly grateful. For years now he's been sending trains in all directions without being quite sure how they actually reached their destinations 🙂

He does worry a bit about the light railway designation, but that's not for him to decide and he is not one to rock the boat.

 

Please can you pass on my thanks to the Station Master at Farthing?

 

Re the light railway designation - I've just checked the classification on the authorisation from the Board Of Trade, and it seems they've put us in a new and little-known "Middleweight" category. Who knew such a thing exists? It was news to me! That's good news, as it means everything at Farthing can travel anywhere on the N&SWR. I'm told the proposed Calne & Hungerford Railway will be built to the same standard.

 

Can you ask the Station Master if the N&SWR construction crew can borrow Farthing's three-plank GWR wagons? That's just what we need for the wood from Honey Street Saw Mill, for the wooden platforms at All Cannings and Bishop Cannings.

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Invitation to the First Meeting of the Board of Trustees of the N&SWR

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

The Directors of the N&SWR have graciously instructed me to forward your nomination to join the Board of Trustees of the N&SWR. You have been nominated as a trustworthy and reliable person with knowledge of Wiltshire (and other) rural branch line railways. 

 

Your duties would simply be to suggest whatever improvements and/or alterations to the N&SWR that you may see fit to mention.

 

Your earliest advice is sought on which locomotives, coaches, horse boxes, cattle wagons and general rolling stock will be appropriate for the N&SWR.

 

Yours sincerely

Wilkins Micawber

Assistant Secretary of the N&SWR

RSVP

 

Copy to  @CME and Bottlewasher, @Northmoor, @The Johnster, @Ramblin Rich, @Miss Prism, @Mikkel, @Oldddudders, @Compound2632, @Northroader,


 

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4 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

Invitation to the First Meeting of the Board of Trustees of the N&SWR

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

The Directors of the N&SWR have graciously instructed me to forward your nomination to join the Board of Trustees of the N&SWR. You have been nominated as a trustworthy and reliable person with knowledge of Wiltshire (and other) rural branch line railways. 

 

Your duties would simply be to suggest whatever improvements and/or alterations to the N&SWR that you may see fit to mention.

 

Your earliest advice is sought on which locomotives, coaches, horse boxes, cattle wagons and general rolling stock will be appropriate for the N&SWR.

 

Yours sincerely

Wilkins Micawber

Assistant Secretary of the N&SWR

RSVP

 

Copy to  @CME and Bottlewasher, @Northmoor, @The Johnster, @Ramblin Rich, @Miss Prism, @Mikkel, @Oldddudders, @Compound2632, @Northroader,


 

 

I am highly honoured to be able to accept this nomination, especially as I will be amongst such august and respected company.  I will refrain from suggesting specific improvements until I have familiarised myself futher with the details of the scheme, but would take this opportunity to repeat my comments regarding length and bi-directional signalling of passing loops on the Calne & Hungerford, and suggest that 'double red' route availability is possibly overkill for this scheme, as it is doubtfull that the sort of diverted traffic I envisioned on the C & H, involving Kings and 47xx, will be needed here.  The joint station will have to be constructed to this specification, though, and it seems only fair that the C & H is responsible for paying for the formation and any bridges that need to be capable of carrying such locomotives; AFAICS only a culvert towards the southern end of the proposed joint station passing loop on the N&SWR is concerned.

 

 

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9 hours ago, The Johnster said:

my comments regarding length and bi-directional signalling of passing loops on the Calne & Hungerford

 

Thanks for the reminder. I must give the C&H surveying teams a nudge. They promised to send us the plans for each station, but those plans haven't arrived yet. I'll give them a phone call now.

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I just phoned the Chief Surveyor. Our telephone exchange operator put me through to Avebury Trusloe 6896. Apparently the surveyors have requisitioned rooms in the Red Lion public house. Who can we send to inspect that?

 

I must say, the poor old chap sounded rather agitated. He said "Station plans? What station plans?". It seems the message didn’t get through - these station plans are a priority! They'd been working night and day just to finish the plans for Section Three (Avebury to Swindon). He says the Section Three plans were send by Signals Motorcycle Despatch Rider last night, and they've made a start on the station plans.

 

Clearly he's not heard of Mr.Churchill's "Action This Day" instruction. He'll probably have a complete meltdown when Mr.Churchill's Ministry Of Ungentlemanly Warfare  starts making demands. Like that hush-hush railway extension from Highworth to the "Last Ditch" HQ at Coleshill. Is @CME and Bottlewasher on the committee for that one? But like I said, hush-hush.

 

But what's happened to the Section Three plans? The Chief Surveyor said "Haven't you received them yet?"  Oh well, I better go to Reception and see what's in the In Tray ... ah, what's this? ....

 

Edited by KeithMacdonald
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Section 3 : Avebury to Swindon

 

Avebury to Berwick Bassett

 

Departing from Avebury Junction, the route goes almost due north, a little over a mile to Winterbourne Monkton and about two miles to Berwick Bassett. That’s close enough to Avebury to excuse them from needing stations.

 

image.png.8ec50d75d52d1d9517af2c243cea0908.png

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=13.9&lat=51.44646&lon=-1.87363&layers=10&b=1

 

Berwick Bassett to Broad Hinton

 

There are no major challenges in this segment, but the direction of the line starts to be dictated by the chosen path down the escarpment on the northern edge of the Downs, and the descent towards Wroughton (next item). Perhaps just a Halt here, not a full station?

 

image.png.ed5fb767606d1fa19ac8dd7c738e355e.png

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=13.9&lat=51.48186&lon=-1.86158&layers=10&b=1

 

Broad Hinton to Wroughton

 

What goes up, must come down. Having climbed up from the Vale of Pewsey, we now have to go down into the Vale of White Horse, heading for Wroughton town. The gradient here is similar to the M&SWJR's descent from Chiseldon down through Burderop Wood to Broome Manor.

 

image.png.51b47ab79c29baf3f0ea78ad00c0a401.png

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=14.2&lat=51.51081&lon=-1.83051&layers=10&b=1

 

Wroughton to Swindon

 

Any suggestions for a station at Wroughton?

 

The N&SWR merges with the M&SWJR at Rushey Platt and the junction with the GWR main line.

 

image.png.ac9de0ca3f5bcf5f0775efcae67aa694.png

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=14.1&lat=51.53784&lon=-1.81038&layers=10&b=1

 

End of Section Three.

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For Section 2, really only options A and B make sense - climbing over the pass at Baltic Farm Summit.  I prefer B as it preserves independence better (also an argument against D).

 

For section 3, you could ease the gradient out of Wroughton by moving the route north a little and crossing onto the plateau above Bincknoll.

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32 minutes ago, Flying Pig said:

ease the gradient out of Wroughton by moving the route north a little and crossing onto the plateau above Bincknoll.

 

Good suggestion!

 

Here's a new version, zoomed-in on the Bincknoll area. Perhaps with a cutting through the corner of Quidhampton Wood, and the spoil from that used to backfill the top-end of the Bincknoll Dip?

 

image.png.29abe63cff2c84cb0083c736862d9f24.png

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=14.9&lat=51.51515&lon=-1.83085&layers=10&b=1

 

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On 09/09/2023 at 14:31, Northroader said:

For my money, I would take it west of Amesbury, keeping clear of the LSWR, also bringing tourists much closer to Stonehenge.

 

I do like the idea of that.  Re the link you mentioned - you've hit the nail on the head.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amesbury_and_Military_Camp_Light_Railway

 

Quote

Bristol and London & South Western Junction Railway ~ This was a proposal by the London and South Western Railway which was designed, essentially, to poach traffic from the Great Western Railway. A Bill was deposited in Parliament in November 1882, for a line to branch away from the LSWR between Salisbury and Basingstoke at a point around two miles west of Grateley railway station. It would cross the plain via Amesbury and Shrewton to Westbury and then on to Bristol via either the Somerset and Dorset Joint Railway or the North Somerset Railway. The Great Western Railway was bitterly opposed to this plan and succeeded in defeating it in 1883.

 

That was the very scheme I had in mind when I mentioned that Amesbury was not meant to be a terminus.

 

Re Stonehenge - did you notice the military camp railway also went to a Stonehenge airfield?

 

Quote

Further extensions were constructed during World War I, consisting of lines from Amesbury to Larkhill Military Camp, and then westward to Rollestone Camp where there was a balloon school. A further extension was added south-east from Rollestone to Fargo, where there was a military hospital; this line then dividing with one branch going south to Druid's Lodge and one to Stonehenge. Aircraft hangars existed at both these locations. These extensions were operated by the R.O.D. (Railway Operating Division) of the Royal Engineers and they remained in use until about 1923.

 

One map of that is here:

https://www.sarsen.org/2013/03/the-stonehenge-railway.html

 

 

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Thank you Sir for these proposals. In accordance with the long tradition of board members I have examined them carefully with at least three cursory glances, and shall express my opinions assertively, verbosely and cluelessly.

 

I agree that options A and B seem best suited, and marvel at the clever ways in which fact, imagination and humour are intervowen in these schemes - an approach to our hobby that I have always liked.  The joint C&H and N&SWR station sounds intriguing too!

 

 

On 09/09/2023 at 16:56, KeithMacdonald said:

could Devizes be the hidden location of Farthing?

 

An interesting proposition. With imaginary stations I suppose there are two different approaches, either you change an existing station to suit your needs, or you add a new one to the map. I have tended to think of Farthing as an example of the latter, but I realize now that the former approach provides an escape route from the corner that I had painted myself into with Farthing: Every time I looked at the Berks & Hants extension to find a logical location for Farthing, there was already a station! So changing and renaming an existing station makes good sense.

 

Recasting Devizes seems a rather big step though, so personally I'm in favour of Option B, whereby Woodbourough becomes a junction station and is renamed Farthing (in my little world at least). 

 

On 09/09/2023 at 19:48, KeithMacdonald said:

When we excavated land on the south of the old Woodborough station to make room for the N&SWR, we were digging through some unusually soft and crumbly chalk layers. I've just been told by the GWR surveyors that we will need to build a long retaining arch wall, the whole length of the bay platform, to stop the soft chalk cliff falling onto the track and platform.

 

 

Thank you! At least now I have some sort of excuse for the retaining walls at Farthing. It will probably still require one eye closed though, given the real-world appearance of the land around Woodborough 🙂

 

woodborough.jpg.7799d39ee1b741e5ffb5bea26e332dd0.jpg

 

woodboroughtoday.jpg.0b414455c58a5f9d1ce6bad9429d1e82.jpg

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5 hours ago, Mikkel said:

At least now I have some sort of excuse for the retaining walls at Farthing. It will probably still require one eye closed though, given the real-world appearance of the land around Woodborough

 

Oh, has nobody mentioned the "Great Landslip of 1785"?

 

Allegedly, it was partly due to the peculiarities of the geology in that part of Wiltshire, and partly due to the still-ongoing isostatic rebound from the last Ice Age, 11 thousand years ago. Apparently there's a little known geological fault line that runs right along the Vale of Pewsey, and right through Woodborough! People still find small cliff-like features in unusual places, and retaining walls are surprisingly common. Allegedly.

 

image.png.c275523a4eefef42bf7db4c053c225a7.png

 

That black band of Gault Clay is nearer Devizes.

 

image.png.7d76c9ea47c56d13eff7985c6f04c21a.png

 

https://www.wiltshiregeologygroup.org.uk/geology/

 

 

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I think that in going from Broad Hinton to Wroughton, you’re going to hit some very hard gradients off the scarp of the Marlborough Downs, and you would better heed the softly, softly approach. Diverge from the GWR main line at Rushey Platt, and slope gently South Westwards to reach the scarp below Bicknoll Castle, then a steady gentle climb, crossing the Broad Hinton Road just at the top of Broad Town village, and on along the back of Clyffe Pypard. By about level with Highway you should on top of the scarp, and be able to swing South Eastwards to a junction with the  Calne line at Heytesbury, and joint to Avebury, passing south of Windmill Hill.

Also if you surveyor persists in using a felt-tip pen on an inch map, you’re going to be involved in a lot of unnecessary surplus land purchasing.

Also modern day surveyors may care to note that whilst checking the topography, there is a Brewery in Broad Town, where some beers are called “wide to gauge” “footplate” “gricers choice”, which could show pro railway partiality by the owner, a former signal engineer from S. Wales, just saying. Me, advertise a brewery??

 

https://www.broadtownbrewery.co.uk/our-beers/

 

Edited by Northroader
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Reference,  Bishops Cannings and facilities, due to the presence of a racing stables near by, have the directors considered the provision of suitable facilities to handle horse traffic in order to tap into this lucrative traffic ?  A short loop to enable traffic to be worked in either direction ?

 

 

Edited by 2E Sub Shed
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18 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Oh, has nobody mentioned the "Great Landslip of 1785"?

 

Allegedly, it was partly due to the peculiarities of the geology in that part of Wiltshire, and partly due to the still-ongoing isostatic rebound from the last Ice Age, 11 thousand years ago. Apparently there's a little known geological fault line that runs right along the Vale of Pewsey, and right through Woodborough! People still find small cliff-like features in unusual places, and retaining walls are surprisingly common. Allegedly.

 

image.png.c275523a4eefef42bf7db4c053c225a7.png

 

That black band of Gault Clay is nearer Devizes.

 

image.png.7d76c9ea47c56d13eff7985c6f04c21a.png

 

https://www.wiltshiregeologygroup.org.uk/geology/

 

 

 

 

Excellent! To which we must add the risk of subsidence caused by centuries of lard mining in the area.

 

image.png.77ac9a90127bc97eb111b0e7198ca100.pnglynehamrd.JPG.b599d1972c9465759668464b49107f28.JPG

 

 

Edited by Mikkel
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17 hours ago, 2E Sub Shed said:

Reference,  Bishops Cannings and facilities, due to the presence of a racing stables near by, have the directors considered the provision of suitable facilities to handle horse traffic in order to tap into this lucrative traffic ?  A short loop to enable traffic to be worked in either direction ?

 

An excellent point, which should have been a "lesson learnt" from the M&SWJR. Some parts of that earned more from horse box movement than they did from passenger traffic. I will issue an order to update all station plans to include a docking bay suitable for both horse boxes and cattle wagons.

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The news must be spreading. The owners of the stables at Beckhampton have just sent us a Recorded Delivery letter, so we better respond ASAP. They say they want a halt or siding suitable for their racehorses. Just like their good friend Major Edwards has for his stables in Ogbourne St.Andrew. They've enclosed a photograph and copy of a plan of that.

 

image.png.2bde82a5456a6fee362e5040eaf7b7b9.png

 

That's not a passing loop is it? More like a siding with points at both ends? Would that be worked with a small ground frame and levers?

 

image.png.a1af6065929f80893f51607ee1a1adf5.png

 

They also want to know how much we would charge for providing a N&SWR horsebox and does that include fresh hay. Or should they order a private horse box from the Gloucester Carriage and Wagon Company? Like Major Edwards' one.

 

image.png.3d20fb016aef6e4e1337cf69335f8f4e.png

 

Has the N&SWR ordered any horseboxes?

 

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