Keith Addenbrooke

Hi @steve1. 

For North American TT, it's standard practice to use N Scale Micro-Trains couplers (the N-Scale equivalent to Kadees, which were originally the same company anyway).  For more on North American TT I'd recommend the ttnut Forum.  North American Rolling stock doesn't tend to have NEM pockets (fair enough, NEM are European standards).

It is also my understanding that the NEM coupler pockets on Hornby TT:120 rolling stock are the same size as those on N Scale rolling stock - rather than HO / OO compatible.  This could be why there's not been mention of Kadees?

Don't know if that helps?  Keith.

I would call it a ‘working diorama’ - but either way it’s an impressive model of an unusual prototype, Keith.

31 minutes ago, TravisM said:

 

I must admit that I do like the first plan, but what worries me is the point throws, either manual or electric can interfere with other points if laid too close to the diverging route of another point.  Or is it just the way it's drawn on AnyRail but not like that in real life?

It is possible to plot track arrangements in Anyrail where point tie bars will foul when laid out - this was for a curved fiddle yard entrance that Anyrail said was OK.  Anyrail is a great product and very useful, but it is worth checking tight arrangements, Keith.

12 hours ago, MAP66 said:

Thanks Keith, much appreciated. Its probably a good job that I don't model 7mm scale as I would never finish detailing the cab! 😄

Thanks Mark.  It’s been fascinating to watch what how you’ve put it all together, and kept adding detail after many of us would have given up.  When I did an 009 Steam Tramway loco a couple of years ago the job was made much easier by receiving a detailed 3-D print in the kit: I just had to be careful painting it! Your more traditional model takes it all to a whole extra level, Keith.

1 minute ago, 5BarVT said:

Only 3 of the 4?  Presumably plenty of time available so Draw was discounted.

Paul.

Raise you to 5, or maybe even 6?   The three referred to were - host team win, visiting team win, or tie.

The fourth is a draw, but a fifth could be abandonment.  Would a game being voided at the last minute for some nefarious reason be a sixth?

Yes, I am putting off this evening’s chores.  Keith.

Seeing the cab between your fingers (final photo) shows just how fine all the detail is - well done once again, Keith.

40 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

If you ferret about on YouTube, there is at least one very good HD Minories shown in operation.

 

HD locos are pretty decently controllable at slow-enough speeds by using a modern controller, but some of the Triang ones don’t really cut the mustard in that regard IMO. It’s surprising how when you come back to them after c50 years, their performance is nothing like as good as you remember!

Quite early on in this thread (page number in the 30's perhaps?), I believe @t-b-g posted a link to this YouTube video by Clive Bennett:

This was Part I - there is a Part II and other more recent offerings on the same channel.  I don't know Clive Bennett personally.  Keith.

Purely for reference, further to my contribution to this thread last Summer, I was reminded of it again yesterday when I set up a test circuit for some newly acquired stock.  This is H0: coaches are all full scale length 1:87 (ie: 303mm = 26.4m) and the table top is 1.8m x 1.0m.  Track is Setrack using 2nd radius curves (438mm or 17.24")

Model Notes:

• European Rolling Stock uses kinematic couplings designed to navigate table top layouts without buffers locking  with tight curves (sometimes tighter).  Equivalent UK / OO stock may not traverse 2nd radius curves.
• At the same time the close couplings close up on straight sections - these are entirely unmodified coaches.

Prototype Notes:

• The Orient Red / White Livery was introduced by the DB in the late 1980s.  By this time newer coach liveries were also appearing, so while this consist could be entirely prototypical, it is more likely the coaches would not all be matching and there would be some with the new red / white / pink stripe livery as well.
• It is common for European trains not to include a brake coach in their consist, so this is not unusual.

As I say - just for reference.  The train takes up half the circuit when stationary.  Keith.

(Apologies - transferring the video to YouTube has left it rather fuzzy: the original was clearer)

Hi John, personally I quite like B from the 70’s, but that was more ‘my era’, so it’s logical that I would, Keith.

Time to get started.  I’ve already built a small Faller H0 laser cut kit to get started this year (for my parallel German modelling project).  First out of the box here is the rail-served store kit I have in stock - alsoshown in the opening post above:

It’s a model of a prototype that used to exist in New York State, but in a lot of ways could be typical of many Main Street Stores across America.  The original was rail-served - with a loading dock round the back, and while I understand that faced a standard gauge team track, I think it could be an ideal candidate for a switching feature on a common carrier narrow gauge line.

It’s certainly not a background kit - the footprint is quite large (note how the base comes as two jigsaw pieces, to be held together with a pair of  ‘peel and stick’ splicers):

The walls are lightweight balsa by the look and feel of them, so I was keen to get all the outer walls assembled in my first modelling session, before leaving them for the glue to dry:

Always feels good to get started, Keith.

I saw an H0 scale VW Microbus on sale, so bought it to satisfy my curiosity:

Left to right - the 1:60 toy bus, my new H0 version, and TT (1:120) for comparison:

The H0 bus looks a bit small, but the dimensions seem to scale to 1:87 OK:

Sam (in blue) is quite tall - a good 6’ plus hat:

Not sure what’s with all the yellow and white!  Keith.

15 minutes ago, Ian Holmes said:

Yes, you're not wrong there. I'm sure I'll be able to find a way around that. 🤔 Tree foliage does get shaped by the repeated passage of vehicles by them. 

 

Ian

Very true - not just passing vehicles either.  This is my front garden: the fir tree has grown that way (I’ve cut the bush back a bit to give the tree more room, but it’s easy to see how it has impeded the natural growth of the tree), Keith:

Hi there.  I've just had a quick read of the thread so far - I have the original Model Railroader Project Layout in a book of 6 HO Model Railroads you can build (all taken from the pages of MRR in the 70s / 80s).  

If I could add a couple of things that may help explain the original concept:

1.  It was built to modular standards, so the separate track at the front was a through mainline (I don't have access to the book at the moment, but from memory there were two mainlines in the original, with all the pointwork off the third / inner running line).

In stand alone mode, the layout was more for photography, though convoluted switching puzzle operation was possible.  It did look very nice, and the complex trackwork appeared quite appropriate.

2.  In the original the docks were represented by a small portion of a huge ship on the backscene - which is why there was no water on the module).  The Port of Los Angeles is a massive operation, so this bit didn't try and replicate actual ship loading / unloading, rather some of the big transfer sheds and operations in the environs.

3.  Also from memory, the original was also built very quickly - once the pointwork had been figured out it was an easy build.  The layout was mounted on castors for portability.

Hope that is of use - basically it was a very nice module that captured the essence of the huge prototype in a 6' length.  Hope that helps, Keith.

Cutting consistently neat, small apertures for the narrow window openings in 1mm thick plastic card takes some doing: very impressive (not surprised it took some time), Keith.

Hi @SimonHMT, just wondered if you went ahead with this?  

Another option can be an older second hand loco from a more detailed range.  I’ve picked up a Fleischmann version of the BR 218. It is also in HO, but in the earlier Orient Red / White Bib livery.  I thought it might be useful to post some comparative photos here for anyone interested in getting started:

There’s quite a lot more detail - including the exhausts on the roof - and the mouldings (grilles etc) are crisper, plus this model has red directional lights at the rear in addition to the white headlights on the Piko Hobby version.  I don’t know if this is DCC compatible (I use DC), and it will need running in as I think it has been in storage for quite a while, but I’ve bought it from a reputable retailer with a good returns policy if needed.  Hope that helps, Keith.

1 hour ago, RonnieS said:

Just in case anyone was wondering about the name (and nobody was!)

 

Ah, now I see it!  Thank you.  I’ve seen a couple of videos of the Club Exhibition: looked to be a good range of layouts, and a week attended show (visitors from across the age ranges, always nice to see).  Well done to all, Keith.

27 minutes ago, stivesnick said:

 

Hi Keith 

I will try to explain.

 

Fresh produce was a key traffic on many interurban lines, so during harvest season they would have run extra trains to carry the produce in refer cars. To get the goods to market as quickly as possible, the GN has also agreed to run special trains (unlikely but rule 1 applies here). So either it runs a light engine+ caboose to pick up the loads or to make the operation more efficient, it brings a train of empty refer cars for the next load of produce. The two sets of wagons are exchanged at the station, so the GN loco returns with a loaded train. 

 

To make the operation more complex, the use of an electric interurban mean that the interurban locos can not access the GN tracks with their longer spurs. The interurban run-around loop will not be long enough to run around the train. However the GN locos can access the interurban yard so will need to assist with the shunting. 

 

The refer cars are genrally yellow or orange with ice hatches on the roof and will have their doors closed! I need to check if I have enough refer cars to two trains. 

 

Hope that makes more sense.

 

Regards 

 

Nick 

Thanks for the explanation - you need two sets of Reefer cars so they can be swapped over / switched as part of the operating sequence.  

I was thinking of the sort of operation that arises with (for example) open coal hoppers: one set loaded and one empty for through trains in opposite directions - but I couldn’t work out what would look different with Reefers.

Thanks, Keith.

Don’t know if you’ve tried this already, but I’ve sometimes had luck checking the product archives (Roco’s is Roco.cc Kataloge- Archiv).  If there’s an information sheet available for your product it may have part numbers to help.  Once I have a part number googling gets easier.
 

In the meantime, are your waggons visible from both sides on the layout or just one?  If it’s just one, an option would be to fit these door wheels to just one side of one wagon, and use the spares for the same side of the wagon that has lost them.  Don’t know if that might help?  Just some thoughts.  Hope that’s OK, Keith.

20 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Nor would any of the others.

 

Tea, coffee, hot snacks provided. Cakes, etc. at visitors' discretion.

 

Third Saturday of odd-numbered months. You would be very welcome.

Do train spotters get a pie and hot Bovril? (or equivalent 1950’s sustenance).  Just wondered, Keith.

I like the inclusion of an interurban line - nice touch not often included.

I’m a bit confused about your comment swapping over loaded and empty reefers - to my mind they’ll look identical?  (I note some of the box cars in the photos have doors open, but I wouldn’t have thought empty reefers would travel like that?  Just wondered, Keith.

Some great photos - reminds me I must call into the Clubrooms and have a look!  Keith.

On 03/01/2024 at 10:29, franckcombe said:

Hi, 

 

I will exhibit my layout at the Nederlandse Modelspoordagen in Netherlands  the  13 & 14 january. For more info ,  https://modelspoordagen.nl/

 

My layout will be published in February or march in the Italian magazine Itreni.

A YouTube video of this exhibition just happened to pop up in my suggested watch list on TV the other night - the layout was third to be shown (the well-known UK OO Copper Wort was first, which was interesting).  Sorry I don’t have a link, but just wanted to acknowledge the layout came across well on film.  Well done!  Keith.

A rerailer is the thing - presumably an N gauge one would work.  I agree wide, low-slung bodies and small wheels make it more challenging.  Keith.

13 hours ago, JSpencer said:

Interesting online interview between Jenny Kirk and Richard Davies from Hattons yesterday evening:

 

Some good incites. One interesting point is that items appear to be no longer made (or are no longer available) in great quantities anymore which affected their business model that they could not easily replace.

 

I wonder if part of the recent price increases is due to recover of development costs across smaller production runs. And if those runs don't sell, that can only mean even smaller runs and great cost still I suppose.

 

 

 

Thank you @JSpencer for the link - as mentioned, some interesting points, particularly around volume.  Hattons’ business model did seem to have volume at the core, and it was interesting to hear that wasn’t a new thing for them.  
 

I must admit there did seem to be fewer mainstream / volume products on display last time I visited the store just before Christmas, something I remember mentioning when I got home that day as a concern.

When comparing price of models past to present, I’d factor in volume again: in the early 1980s I was quite content with three locos on my layout (until I sold one and just had two).  By the 2010s my ‘one engine in steam’ unsceniced tabletop branch line apparently needed 20 to keep running, most of which had come from Hattons.  I think that’s one thing that changed, previously to Hattons advantage, but perhaps less so now the manufacturing business model has moved to short production runs of high end models, as others have commented.

I just hope there aren’t people still with lots of store credit to spend now there’s little left of many products, Keith.

1 hour ago, NotofthiscenturyTim said:

The main thing I took away from this, and which I hadn't picked up on in the Hattons statement, is that Hattons' website/software stack has grown organically over time and is a bespoke system. Richard called it something like a "monolith". He also said there were significant costs maintaining it and that lockdown have provided an impetus to many other retailers to get online properly. 

Reading between the lines I suspect that the other retailers who were later to ecommerce were able to go with cheaper, off-the-shelf software while Hattons have all the costs associated with an in-house legacy system which was very innovative when it was first developed but is now showing its age. 

Brings back more memories of Hattons - in 2005 - 2007 when I was living back in the Midlands (actually where I come from) I spent many long hours scrolling through the OO gauge steam loco and coach listings on the ehattons website (as it was then).  I was using a dial-up modem to connect to the internet, so the connection wasn’t fast, giving me time to enjoy the pictures displayed on what certainly seemed to me then to be the best website around.  Happy times, Keith.