fiftyfour fiftyfour

We will have to agree to disagree on that- most "average Joes" won't spend £380 for two people for a trip on an HST. The type will continue with XC, GWR and ScotRail for the foreseeable and in preservation. If anyone has both an NMT and a Midland Pullman stood in the fiddle yard I'd suggest they should run the NMT every fortnight or so, and the Midland Pullman once or twice a year if they are replicating reality at their chosen location!! However, if they are modelling the mid 1990's at many mainline locations they might want an IC Swallow set or three, and exercise them 15-20 times a day...

On which release? I cannot see a top level headlight on the R3769 Network Rail HST, making that wrong for the "improving your railway" era with those nameplates (the second of which dates from 2018)

and replicating a silly elite train that has still only ever run once. They will still queue up to buy it, and those of us seeking Midland Mainline Rio or ANY 1996-2006 GWT/FGW livery power cars have to wait another 50 weeks for another disappointment. Not that I'm bitter or anything...

And we had the opposite problem at Bristol St Philips Marsh- Virgin thought it would be a good idea to cut to 2+5 sets but couldn't understand why it took twice as long to service them- all the fuel grids were set up for 2+7 or 2+8 so it had to be mobilised, started up and shunted half way though servicing. I imagine NL might be having similar problems with the 6 car sets on EMR now!

A lot of this stuff was Chris Green initiatives when he was boss at ScotRail, like putting in differential speeds for HSTs on stretches of the Aberdeen road. There were a few years when the Clansman and the Highland Chieftain co-existed but IIRC the Clansman was killed off circa 1989 having seen reduced demand and only really existing as an Inverness to West Midlands train in latter years as the superior speed of the Highland Chieftain slowly eroded demand for the WCML train. I think that unlike many other trains the weekend Highland Chieftain's were always named, I have early carriage labels with the stag logo showing SO and SuO varients, this continued into the IC Swallow logo and beyond into the logo with the Tam O Shanter hat used in the late 1990's and various GNER and subsequent versions through to the end of HST operation.

I think the special nine car sets were much shorter lived than suggested above, it may only have been a high summer 1980/1981 thing whilst enough TS vehicles were available and then quite strictly limited to the busiest Anglo-Scots; not sure which depots had capability to handle 9 cars back then but it wouldn't have been many as work was needed when GNER extended them in 2003. Post 1983 only a tiny number of spare TS's would have been available, extras had been built to extend 10 WR "West of England" sets to boost sets on the busiest trains to 2+8. Highland Chieftain started May 1984 timetable and was ALWAYS a through service to Kings Cross, except when absolutely impossible due to major engineering works. For the first few years the up train went via Elgin and Aberdeen on winter Sunday mornings as a booked working to retain the through service during work on the Highland main line. Did a TRUK ever get to Inverness? I doubt it, but someone will prove me wrong with an early photo- you really are better off with a TRUB in your set if replicating an early days 'Chieftain.

Semi interested in an early version NSE provided the price isn't too naughty, they seem quite scarce after just one initial release some while ago.

Just for fun someone has done a Northern Olympian in cobalt blue NBC style...

I'd go along with that. The first few refurbs had a swing door splitting the TOE into smoking and non smoking but the law changed in Scotland quite a while ahead of the ban on smoking indoors in England so GNER had to fall into line with the rest of the world (having retained smoking longer than most, if not all) and ban smoking, so the doors were either not fitted or removed on later refurbs. SV became so ingrained in the mindset on ECML that some referred to the HST 407xx as SV, which of course it was never classified as such.

Ironically it was the introduction of electric locos and Mk4's that killed off a lot of ECML diverting, suddenly the ability to swing off via Cambridge or up the Joint suddenly became a long drawn out affair requiring the additional use of a suitably powerful ETH fitted loco. Even historically the WCML south of Carlisle has never been a diversion for ECML traffic though...

Thanks for at least confirming for me that everyone in the last five pages rabbiting on about Mk4 TSO, TSOD and TFO was barking up the wrong tree! I was 95% sure they were classified TO etc and I'm 99% sure the T stood for Tourist, not Trailer but hadn't got round to looking it up.

Paint 'em black and have a "what if..." formation with a black Class 90. Two of the Grand Cancel sets have shifted back out of Wembley yard to the wheel lathe side at Stonebridge for no obvious reason in the last 48 hours.

Answering a few points at once here! The Hornby scale length TS, TF and TRFB only ever came with Central Door Locking, so on the blue/grey ones its there but not highlighted but as its moulded on its clearly visible. As the TGS is Limby it doesn't have CDL so they just print it on when replicating a post CDL model. Re the Class 89 formation- nothing is broken- when the Class 89 first showed up it had no TDM fitted, so it ran around at Peterborough each time. Don't forget it doesn't need to ETH the stock as the Class 43 is taking care of that, and back then they could use any old scratch rake of whatever Bounds Green could cobble together and initially that wouldn't have included any modified TGS vehicles so they would need to bung a BG or something with drop head buckeyes on the other end for the Class 89 to hook up to. I suspect they may have put some early 225 rakes into service with 8 coaches but I'm sure that by the full launch and services through to Edinburgh they were all 9 coaches, I recall that being one of the selling points vs the HST and I think John Prideaux said the new trains would have the extra coach at the BBC Television Railwatch launch in 1989, I'm feeling like the ninth passenger coach was ordered after the initial fleet based on securing more funding. The use of differently formed sets with more First Class and/or and additional caterer was a hang over from HST days when certain sets were dedicated to Pullman workings (and they had to be careful to keep them on diagram and not let them wander off to Glasgow or somewhere that maximum standard class capacity would be needed). They later standardised and just ran more Pullmans with standard formations to serve demand allowing them to have a common fleet across all trains. Also fact fans might like to know that the existence of then surplus caterers and first class vehicles allowed them to quickly reform the set involved in the Hatfield derailment as it was only the "service vehicle" (as they were then known) and vehicles rearward that were lost in that accident.

Correct. It's effectively through wiring allowing a loco to heat a train with one of them in the middle. They did tap off the ETH to run a rectifier thing in the former luggage area to keep the power car auxiliaries and headlights working but think of it like the BG behind it in terms of ETH need and capability!

They are standard ETH jumpers on the front of 43014+43123, and the reason for their installation and through ETH wiring was to allow an ETH fitted loco (such as the Class 86) to go onto the front of the train in the event of a TDM failure and still therm the train. This was not needed on the Class 91 operation as the only vehicle in that consist capable of keeping the passengers warm/cool/supplied with tea was the Class 43, so even with the 91 on top of the power car you'd not plug anything in. HSTs have a 36 way cable but there is not one under the nose cone, you cannot make HSTs "talk" to each other through the nose cones so if one needs to haul another you'd isolate the E70 brake controllers on the set not being driven from and run as if loco hauled at loco hauled speed maximums. There is a socket under the nose cone for shore supply but that's all it does, allows you to "plug in" and shut the engines down but still keep the coaches and auxiliaries alive.

That's in service- you only need an RCH cable which at least two of the WCML BG's must have had as there are numerous shots of 43123 (and fewer of 43014) on normal WCML service trains formed 43123+BG+regular rake of Mk2s+Class 86. All eight DVT power cars returned to the core fleet from early 1990 and all made it into the XC fleet and then into the Virgin fleet before 013+014 wandered off to become NMT in 2002 after the Voyagers were introduced. I don't think they were any less reliable than others after they settled back into use as normal HST power cars, there was some garbage in one of the many error laden Marsden books about them being stipulated for certain duties on XC because of their ease of recovery but this wasn't true. What was true was the preference, if viable, to attach a rescue loco to the end with buffers if that was an option- I was once on a set that ran out of fuel around Castle Bromwich owing to a litany of foul-ups I won't bore you with and the rescue loco came past us and onto the rear and shoved to Birmingham New St where the train changed direction.

I can find out for you if you promise to take the CDL off and change the interiors on the TS vehicles for the new replacement ones (type "Mk3 interior Hornby" into eBay. (Yes, I still have too many left!!). To take the Mk3's back to the 1980's you'd have to take the CDL lights off with a scalpel as well as the release handles located near the bottom of the handrail beside the door, and take the printed versions of the same off their incorrect positions on the other side of the coach. The TGS mod is quite easy as the RTR comes with buffers to insert.

43014 also worked on WCML, and on various wacky formation trials such as blue/grey sleepers (soon back in stock) with Class 91's and a Laboratory Coach which would require scratch building. Sadly, as demonstrated by the photo, both wore the previous livery style during this period so the new release is no use to WCML modellers without a lot of respraying/rebranding.

I think we should assume the FGW 402xx and the Midland Pullman buffets will be Limby lash ups, we need to see the roof to see if they are just late number RFMs in other liveries.

I was only really referring to the coaches but if you include the power cars, then yes- the finish on both post-dates DVT use by a long way. This mades the Mk3s and power cars in Intercity from the 2020 catalogue even more non-matching, as the coach formation with its 2xTF and a first class buffet dates that before July 1991 (but with post 1993 CDL!) but the name on 43065 was applied February 1996 (and removed, forever, in November 1998 contrary to Hornby's blurb). Similar problem with the earlier 43078+079 combo, the name on 078 dated that after June 1996 but the numbers on the front of 43079 dated that much earlier. Goes back to a pet hate of mine, the insistence on modelling untypical named power cars which then requires the application of often impossible to source cast 'plates and makes renumbering far harder. So the release of 43013 with yellow front is even more welcome, they could have fallen down the "let's do the named one" trap once again!

Forget it- people clearly only want very recent and very short-lived liveries on their HSTs and are not attempting to model anything much from the period before 2019, even less so the period 1996-2008! The LNER one only ran for four days but they feel confident enough to sell then en masse, the Midland Pullman has so far only operated once and will at best be a 20 times a year affair ergo a rare sight at any location of your choosing but still everyone is excited about the prospect of paying £648 for a model of it AND has the space to run an 11 vehicle train!

Very astute point which I only thought about after the event (posted quicker than my brain!) A few observations- if the RRP is £70 that means the RRP for the powered cars is over £200 when taken out of the twin pack! The Mk3s they did last year are WRONG for making up a buffer Class 43+Mk3+Class 91 combo for two reasons- the numbers depicted are not from a set which was used, eight TGS vehicles received buffers and drop head buckeyes for attachment of the Class 91's and 44055 wasn't one of them. Also, the Mk3's released last year feature Central Door Locking which wasn't introduced until 1993, by which time that set was on Cross-Country and the short-lived 91 replacing a HST power car combo had been consigned to history.

Is the kitchen car going to have the right window layout and roof vent layout? The TGF appears to be right but we need to see both sides of the kitchen car (and the top!) to be sure

To quickly say that the single dummy HST power car is a good idea, I shall certainly buy one as it remained like that for many years after use with the Mk4's on ECML.

Well over three years from the first appearance in September'96 until the last ones were vinyled over in late '99, which is an age in modern terms. People will queue up to buy Virgin East Coast branded 91's and they existed for half that time!