Artless Bodger

Hi. Nice work on the Q and the R1. Tovil - that stirs memories, my Grandfather worked in Allnutt's paper mill, on school summer holiday walks mum used to take us in to see him, you could just walk in off the street. The Tovil Goods branch crossed the road just along from the mill entrance. Mum used to have some photos of a lancashire loiler being delivered to the mill - a C class I think brought it into the yard where it was rolled off the wagon and down the embankment, then jacked onto a trailer with solid tyres and pulled round to the mill by a traction engine, the shame is the photos were probably dumped after mum died. That would have been about late 1920s - the loco had Southern on the tender. We also used to walk up or down the Loose valley, where the KESR extension was supposed to run - potentially paper, pulp and rags would have been among the traffic handled. Paper mills long gone now - all housing estates, what a waste. I dream of an ideal layout, based on Maidstone West, with the KESR connection, and the one ended electrification from Strood, I'll never do it but I can dream.

There are crane tracks crossed by train tracks on the wharf by Bristol M Shed museum, along with 4 Stothert and Pitt dockside cranes. Looking at photos available on the web, the intersection is plain - the slot of the inset train rail is intersected by the slot of the crane rail. Looking at a close up of the crane bogies - there are 2 wheels per bogie, 1 bogie on each crane leg and the wheels are centre flanged on both rails, the rails are symmetrical centre flangeway (unlike the inset train rail). This must have involved some careful gauging when the crane tracks were inset. The cranes are fitted with rail clamps on each bogie and so probably are secured in place while lifting and will not be required to travel loaded. I think the M shed cranes have cable spools and plug into dockside sockets. The Stothert and Pitt cranes we had at New Hythe used trolley wires bracketed off the buildings for normal use, but had a cable spool for travel beyond the trolley wires if needed. The cranes used for unloading coal in west mill were required to travel loaded and were on occasion used to shunt empty mineral wagons by dropping the grab into the wagon and engaging travel - not apparently an approved procedure. Attached electrical diagram for one of the cranes - I think they were 400V DC. Elec_Schem_22t_Toplis_Grab_Crane.pdf

Thank you for your interest. To put things in some context, I've cropped a site plan which shows the dates of the buildings (the site developed from 1920 to 1957 and beyond). I've outlined the buildings shown in the photographs in red - these are the initial phase from 1921, no 1 and 2 paper machine house, coal bunkers, lancashire boilers, clay bunkers, beaterfloor and turbine house. The conveyor(s) were the overhead gantry cranes used to unload pulp from lighters on the river. Regarding photos 94 and 115, I've marked the temporary standard gauge line through the end of the machine house as the thick black line. The blue line is the course of the (later) east mill access siding known as "Reed's Siding", which lasted to the end of the site though latterly unused. The dotted light blue curve is my guess at the temporary connection to the temporary track in the machine house, as this must have been removed later but may have been in use while the next phase; nos 3 and 4 machines were installed. Some photos were taken from the top of the 'shaft' the chimney marked 'chy' within the red box. The other chimney was built later to serve the Stirling boilers put in north of the lancashires. Unfortunately I have no pictures from later phases of construction. Photo 15 shows a mobile derrick (stabilised by stacks of bricks) used for what appears to be the excavation of the 'wet pit' which was a couple of deep sumps, one to collect the drainage prior to pump out to river, the other to handle the turbine condenser cooling water from and to the river. Some of the workmen appear to be wearing army uniform, presumably war surplus, some magnificent moustaches on display too. The derrick seems to have been used to lower the tipper skips (bodies only perhaps) into the excavation, as the hoist cable stretches over to it. The skeleton steelwork is the frame of the lancashire boiler house, no 1 & 2 m/c house is the roofed building behind - the travelling crane inside can just be made out.

I've been sorting through an old hard drive and discovered / rediscovered some photographs my brother scanned while working on the decommissioning of the old Aylesford Paper Mills East Mill site around 2009/10 (he was instrument / systems engineer there previously). There is a set of photos taken during the early construction of East Mill, some of which include a narrow gauge constructors railway and a few with standard gauge wagons. So on the assumption that they may be of interest, I attach a couple here for your delectation. These show the inside of no 1 and 2 paper machine house, with the machines under construction. Made by Charles Walmsley of Bury these initially made newsprint. Construction of APM started in 1920/1 on a greenfield site at New Hythe, just north of Aylesford, on a strip of land between the then SECR Paddock Wood - Strood railway and the river Medway. Of potential interest here are the standard gauge wagons on a temporary track in the north end of the machine house, and in no 94, the narrow gauge contractors line snaking along between the machines. In 94 the LNWR low sided open was probably involved in delivery of machine parts - such as the felt guide rolls stacked in the foreground. The van in 115 is interesting as it appears to have vacuum brake hoses, and the doors are not full height, there's a drop down door at the bottom. Can anyone identify it please? The contractors narrow gauge is presumably ex WD from WW1, 2' gauge. Other photos in the set show tipper skips and a small petrol loco, I'll upload a few if there is any interest? Cheers

I've a vague memory of a series of articles, in Railway Bylines perhaps, many years back on the 9400 class. These stated that many of the 9400s were ordered from private firms early after the war but steel shortages delayed their delivery. By the time the steel was available BR had realised they were not needed (as diesel shunters were taking over in many cases, and they had lower route availability than the 5700 / 8750 types), and tried to cancel the orders, but were held to honour the commitment by the contractors.

Head Gardener has hurt her leg - so I've got quite a lot to occupy myself with in lieu of walking for exercise. On the modelling front I've finally started to turn my cardboard mock-up* turn table into something that might actually be useful. *As in it mocks me everytime I look at it. There's a long way to go yet.

Thank you for posting your project, I find it very inspiring and encourages me to further efforts, poor by comparison though they may be (I don't call myself Artless Bodger for nothing).

I once caught a blue / grey CEP at New Hythe one evening after working late as far as Maidstone West around the early 80s (I worked there '78-'85), but cannot say if that was normal. The trains were normally HAPs and EPBs. Maybe it was a through service from London.

Gad! Looks like the offspring of the 'panoramique' and a flirt!

There were some similar in Ireland, LMS NCC nos 2 and 3 had turret cabs and radiators on the roof. Meanwhile the GNR(I) had railcar D - which presaged the Flirt - with an 0-6-0 power unit articulated in the middle. Irish pioneering of diesel traction is often overlooked, Diesel Dawn by Colm Flanagan is highly recommended.

A bit like the GMO turret cab B-B, GM's BL2 could be a contender.

Ye gods! Looking at those makes Drummond's Bug look sane! Locos like the MGWR inside cylinder 2-6-0 and Robinson's 2-6-4T look like oversized 0-6-0s / 0-6-4Ts that had to have an extra carrying axle fitted because the superheater put them over the weight limit on the front axle. That said the GCR tanks had a certain heft to them. There was a Turkish loco - 4-6-0 iirc which had an extra carrying axle between two pairs of drivers - not sure how you'd describe it under Whyte, o o O O o O. Saxon Railways XV HT V, later DRG baureihe 790 (superheated compound 0-6-6-0 tank), might be an also ran. Personally I think the streamlined version of the Princess Coronation looks quite unpleasant. Gresley's hush hush too. Early electric locos are a well stocked hunting ground for hideous designs; Milwaukee Road Bi-polars, early KPEV types, P.O. Ganz 2D2 protoypes, PRR L5 etc. and the SNCF 5500 2D2 was nicknamed the Waterman as the front end styling resembled the Waterman ink bottle shape. However I do like the Swiss crocodiles.

Interesting, this thread triggered memories of something my mother told me years ago about her father. There were several paper mills in the Wye Valley. My maternal grandfather worked at the Allnutt paper mill in Tovil, Kent, my mother said he had to travel at times to Bourne End to an associated mill - a bit of research shows that Thomas Green (of Soho Mill, Wooburn Green) owned the mills of H Allnutt, they having been sold in 1872, but still operated under the Allnutt name, so grandad presumably travelled to the Thomas Green mill. Extract from: https://archive.org/stream/familiesofallnut00nobl/familiesofallnut00nobl_djvu.txt HENRY ALLNUTT of MAIDSTONE (8th generation of Ibstone) His birth 26/2/1789 is recorded in the register of the Crendon Lane Indepen¬ dent Meeting, High Wycombe. In his father’s will he is described as farmer. It is not known when he went into the paper-making business or why he chose Kent for his enterprise. He established two mills at Ivy and Tovil, near Maidstone, and worked first under the name of Smith and Allnutt. Later the business became Henry Allnutt & Son and this name continues until today, although no member of the family is connected with it. In 1872 the business was purchased from Alfred Allnutt and is now owned by Thomas Green Ltd of Wooburn Green, Bucks. I worked at De La Rue in Maidenhead in the mid 80's and we often travelled via Cookham, Wooburn, Beaconsfield to our print factory in Dunstable, and I can remember a large mill building being demolished near Wooburn Green at this time, which ties in with the closure date of the Thomas Green mill. De La Rue used the products of another Wye Valley mill - Glory, nearer to High Wycombe, which made photographic base paper.

Wow, thanks to everyone, I didn't think this question would stimulate so many responses, much appreciated. So it seems 1962 was the last year of 4-4-0s in traffic and after that only occasional uses. Interesting info wrt the H class, I can remember seeing a steam engine at Maidstone West as a young child (about 3-4 yo), in the Tonbridge bay, the thing I remember most was something L shaped in the cab - the hand brake handle I suppose. Probably an H on the Tonbridge (or Paddock Wood) push pull. We'd have been going to see relatives in Snodland.

Thank you for this, I'd not come across the database, more to occupy myself with during the lurgi. I have fond memories of the Airfix Schools - 919 Harrow.

I'm asking out of curiosity, which 4-4-0 classes were the last to run in ordinary service on British Railways? Given that steam lasted longest in the north west, I'd assume they would be either LMS 2Ps or Compounds. My 1964 Observer's Book of Railway Locomotives of Britain has entries for the preserved trio; Gordon Highlander, the Glen and the T9, it also has entries for the Schools Class noting two were withdrawn but in store, and 2Ps noting several were to be seen in Scotland awaiting cutting up. I have a vague memory of an old black 4-4-0 at Ashford, either outside the works or near the Margate line, this would be early 60s and steam had gone in Kent except for the two USA shunters at Ashford works, I'm assuming this was the D which ended up in Clapham museum. I'm assuming the T9s in the west country had gone when the WR took over SR routes? Many thanks.

China clay certainly for most grades of writings and printings, either for use as a filler (opacity, reduce ink strike through) and in some mills as a coating pigment. Bulk clay for filler would be in sheeted opens - Aylesford mill took china clay in 5 plank wagons with the sheets laid over the load - so flattish with a slight hump in the middle. Even if fitted with sheet rails these were not used. From memory the wagons were all wood bodied - any steel floor or corrugated steel ends could risk rust staining the clay. Aylesford was a big mill and used perhaps 1-2 wagon loads a week (for 5 papermachines) in the 1970s. For coating the clay would probably have been a fine grade, possibly surface treated, so in bags in vans (by my time Aylesford used grades like PCX clay in bags but delivered by road). Other pigments and dyes were usually in drums or bags (paper sacks), so probably delivered in vans, especially if water soluble. Even for 'white' papers some dyes or pigments are used to trim the shade for consistency. If taking esparto grass, or cotton / rag, the caustic soda would be for boiling and pulping. Chlorine might be used for water treatment and at one time for bleaching pulp. Liquid chlorine could be delivered by tank wagon, or in some cases (Townsend Hook at Snodland) took 1 ton cylinders - I'm not sure if these were carried by rail, but probably in opens, well secured! Another important paper making chemical would be aluminium sulphate - papermaker's alum - either in solution or in sacks of lumps - kibbled alum. Writing paper would be sized so sacks of rosin or gelatine, drums of saponified rosin or perhaps semi-bulk containers (1 ton capacity). Other miscellaneous materials: Lubricating oils - many old papermachines had very leaky lubrication systems. Optical brightening agents / fluorescent whiteners - in drums, e.g. Tinopal. Salt - for water softening, often in bulk for large mills. Forming wires (wire mesh belts on which the paper is formed) in long wooden boxes and dryer felts bundled or in long boxes. Machinery deliveries would be mainly for new build or replacement, such as: Refiners and their associated fillings. Beater rolls Machine rolls and drying cylinders. Pipes - lots of pipes

Nice to see 1618 in service; for one or two summers (around 1968-70) I spent one happy evening a week after school with working parties on this loco when it was in Blackhorse siding at New Hythe, on the Aylesford Paper Mill site, it must have been fairly recently delivered from Woodhams. I think I read it was the second loco recovered from Woodhams. Luckily working evenings coincided with the one night a week we were not given homework. With thin arms I got nice jobs like scraping the grease and dirt out from the back face of the tender axle boxes, between the frame and the wheels. Also laying on my back under the tender wire brushing rust off the underside of the tank. I thought the U went to the K&ESR after leaving New Hythe, but surely it was too heavy for that line? Thanks for posting the photo.

The level crossing gates at Winning are interesting, with the motor driven wheel near the outer end. Am I right in remembering something similar near Brough station in the early 80s? I seem to recall they only extended part way across the 4 tracks in existence then, an example of not closing off the railway completely when open to road traffic.

Just a few notes on the pictures; the blokes in white are we mill chemists (aka ice cream men) issued with nice white overalls so the managers could see if we'd been working or not. The geezer with the moustache was the regular driver from the utility gang, he let us do the driving but was there to make sure we didn't get Hornblower off the rails - the tyres were worn with outside flanges, and since Hornblower weighed about 28T and the biggest mobile crane on site was only a 3 tonner we'd be a bit unpopular. Jacking and packing might not work too well as apart from the relatively recently relaid spur, most of the track was ballasted with ash if anything and fast disappearing into the undergrowth, rails spiked to rotting sleepers. The smiling chap in a suit was our manager so we had complete carte blanche, he was if anything a greater enthusiast than us. In the last shot, the weighbridge is lurking in the shrubbery at the base of the water tower - compare this with the old view at the top of the thread, taken from the top of the big black building on the right (6&7 boiler house). The first shot was taken under the beater floor with Bounty behind me; this was the normal resting place for both locos, and visible from passing trains. The sidings originally reached all the way down to New Hythe Lane right by New Hythe station, but were shortened and built over when no 6 machine was upgraded in the late 60s / early 70s. There were hatches in the floor above to permit heavy machinery to be lifted from railway wagons up into the beater floor - things like beater rolls at 8T apiece. From the amount of cast iron piping around the site there must have been significant pipe wagon traffic in the 20s and 30s when east mill was under construction.

Chlorine deliveries and use on the Aylesford Paper Mill site. APM Water and Effluent Dept supplied process water (600-650 000 gph) and condenser cooling water (750 000 gph) to the mill and powerhouse. Water was drawn from the Medway (tidal here) and had to be treated with chlorine to prevent biological fouling of pipes. Typically in winter we'd use around 1/2 ton of liquid chlorine a day, in summer and early autumn when river flows were lower and more silt laden about 1 ton per day. Up until the 80s liquid chlorine was delivered in archaic looking 4 wheel tank wagons with open spoked wheels, and if memory serves me - vac piped but not fitted, so the daily goods would have a brake van when delivering chlorine. The chlorine siding comprised a pair of short parallel spurs next to the Medway pump house (fig 1). Normally only 1 tanker would be present, but two when a changeover was due. A raised access platform was provided with stairs in both directions between the sidings, this was to allow escape upwind in case of a leak when attaching or detaching the link pipe. The chlorine tankers had 4 valves under a hinged dome cover, the two on the longitudinal centre line had siphon pipes reaching to the bottom of the tank and were used to draw off liquid chlorine, the other two valves on the cross centre line opened into the gas space in the top of the tank - we didn't use these. One liquid draw-off valve was connected to our pipework by a large spiral pipe to allow for the tanker rising on its springs as it unloaded. Liquid chlorine drawn off was mixed with water in an injector and the concentrate then added to the main process and cooling water streams. Early in the 80s, the 4w tanks were withdrawn and replaced by bogie tankers (the Triang Murgatroyd type) which were vac fitted - our siding had to be relaid to larger radii, and the spurs lengthened; the drawing provided of the tanker was lettered for Murgatroyds. Holding larger quantities of chlorine on site meant we had to provide a concrete bunded area around the tanker bays connected to an old metering pit alongside to act as an emergency sump to contain any major leaks. In case of a leak the emergency services had to be contacted, with information on wind speed and direction (we had an anemometer and weather vane at the security main gate), as the police would potentially have to close the M20, evacuate parts of Ditton and stop all trains. Luckily the only leak I ever had to deal with was a minor one which was stopped by tightening the gland nut on the draw-off valve. When BR withdrew wagon load freight on the Strood - Paddock Wood line (c. 1983/4?) Kent County Council vetoed road deliveries (at least that was the story we heard in the tech dept), so APM changed over to an alternative biocidal chemical to treat the process water. The RH 0-4-0 DE Hornblower was transferred from West mill to work the bigger tankers (and maybe because the 4w DM Bounty gearbox was damaged). When the last tanker was shunted off site the east mill tech dept (all railwayacs) decided to be involved - it was a chemical tanker after all - and the following photos record the occasion. fig 1 - old site plan.pdf

More shots of the ARC empties, earlier times when still double headed by 33s, in one case a slim jim and the 'lone ranger' with the black window surrounds.

Photos relating to the crippled tanker. First 3 photos taken from a window in the east mill technical dept building (originally the yard dept offices) - on stilts near the water tower. Later photos taken from the only window accessible along the beaterfloor and through having to wriggle part way out onto the large lagged steam main.

That is interesting - I cannot remember any grounded bodies of these tanks on site (though I didn't get to some of the farther corners all that often). Brookgate would suggest the west mill connection where the oil trains went and later coal. There were many odd tanks scattered around site - for condensate, starch, process chemicals etc, but none I'd have identified as ex railway wagons. In 1981 we were still using chlorine - just - my photos of the last wagon to leave east mill (Reed's Siding) would have been around 1983-4 probably. The chlorine siding by the Medway Pump House was visible from passing trains, it comprised two short parallel spurs with a discharge and access gantry structure between the two tracks. There would be two tankers present for a few days about every 2-3 months covering the changeover period. Bogie tanks held about 30-35T of liquid chlorine the older 4w tanks 14T. In winter we used around half a ton of chlorine a day, in summer and early autumn about 1 ton a day due to greater biological fouling load in the river water. I'll post a bit more about our chlorine deliveries / activities in a while.

Yes, both 33s and 73s were used, on the oil trains and the earlier coal trains of 16 and 21 tonners. This photo looks like a slim jim bringing the loaded train north towards Aylesford station crossing, the tank on the left was part of an oil depot originally supplied by water - I dont think there was ever a rail connection - there are some aerial photos of the two in Aylesford on Britain from the Air. This train looks like a mixture of bogie and 4w tanks which occured from time to time, more common was 10x bogies. Beyond the distribution depot sheds seen above the train was Aylesford village crossing, we got held up there while returning from a lunchtime sojourn at a local pub one day. After an inordinately long wait a 73 ambled slowly into view pulling our oil train. Eventually getting back to the mill we nipped over into west mill to find out why the train had been going so slowly to find one tanker with a wheelset on skates (first time I'd ever seen a skate). After unloading the defective tanker was cut out and left in a parallel siding. Over the next few days, a lowmac with two new wheelsets was dropped off by the local goods, then an iron fairy road crane came and the wheelsets were exchanged, finally the repaired tanker, duff wheels etc departed with a later oil train - I'll look for my photos of that departure.