MOB 2002

It occurs to me that human behaviour is not fixed. Has research caught up? Particularly in something like model railway stock purchases, that behaviour will be impacted massively by external factors. I wonder if some of the problems currently being seen aren’t a slow reaction to changing spending behaviours? We all justify our model railway expenditure in different ways. But in this example I suspect most will think it’s much easier to internally justify an Re4/4 II that will fill a substantial gap (the last generation never adequately covered green or red variants at all), than another model of exactly the same loco in a livery that’s always a bit niche. If money isn’t going as far as it once was, the decision could easily change. Adding the apparently fixed dominant model of releases, to changes in spending habits could actually be a recipe for disaster. If everyone is following pretty much the same model then the opportunities for the dangers of group think to creep in are clear. Are manufacturers holding on for a pay day that may never come? I’m not going to change a manufacturers mind - I am but a random interested individual, but it’s in all of our interests that they get it right and flourish really. Personally, if I was running a model railway manufacturer right now, I think I’d be looking for a cash cow. Mark

Ok, I can sort of understand that logic even if it sounds like there’s at best a lot of psychology involved and at worst, guess work! I’m still not entirely sure the Fleischmann Re4/4II choice will achieve that though - from what I’ve seen of the second hand market the TEE liveried machines probably command the lowest price of the current generation model, which is probably a good indicator. Mark

Maybe, but I’d have thought good business sense would want to recoup investment made over as short a time as possible? Then you can reinvest and repeat? Perhaps model railway manufacturing isn’t the place to look for good business sense? Mark

If it’s up to the standard of the Re6/6 then I’m sure it’ll be great. But I don’t get the choice of prototypes they’ve gone for - then again, I think most of the manufacturers have serious quick wins of re-liveries that would fly off the shelves on their hands. I think an obvious one for Fleischmann actually would be their steel baggage carriage with the post 1987 SBB logo. Nobody else is filling that gap. Mark

Looks like the 2024 Fleischmann catalogue has been leaked … https://www.trainsdepot.org/manufacturers/pdfs/download/1290/fleischmann_novelties_2024_pdf The big potential excitement seems to be a completely new Re4/4 II, although that’s slightly tempered by the fact that there seems to be neither a green or a red one coming any time soon! Mark

A massive yes please from me too! Always keen to see Swiss narrow gauge modelling of a non-RhB subject, as much as I love the RhB. Mark

It only seems to have stuck among trainspotters from the mid 20th Century bizarrely. Railwaymen who worked with the P1 derived vehicles that the spotters were coming across at the likes of Seaham at the time, always called them black waggons. Perhaps they still understood the etymology of the word Chaldron? Mark

It could probably be a fairly prototypical recreation of the 1925 cavalcade! The NER and LNER really were pioneers at what we’d call PR these days - they were so good that the stories they created are still being recounted now. Mark

I think there are very few subjects in railway history with as many published untruths as the Stockton and Darlington Railway sadly. The recent research by the NRM on the real history of ‘Locomotion’ has at least started to bring a more accurate version of history to the fore. I’m sure many people will have had their minds blown to learn that there was no such thing as ‘Locomotion’ on the opening day of the S&D for example. Mark

I don’t want to upset anyone, but the answer is initially at least that they didn’t have any ‘chaldrons’ at all. Indeed it would appear from published research that the Stockton and Darlington even failed to learn the lessons of around 150 years of waggon experience just up the road on the rivers Wear and Tyne… Apparently they didn’t even have bottom doors on the first S&D waggons. Sadly there’s been a lot of demonstrable rubbish written about ‘chaldrons’ over the years. Indeed, most of the waggons described as ‘chaldrons’ are nothing of the sort, they’re 4T black waggons basically to an 1850s North Eastern Railway design. Mark

If last year is a gauge, could the 2024 Fleischmann announcements be imminent - was January 10 last year. I can’t imagine anything earth shattering, but part of me expects to see an Re10/10 combo. If so I hope it’s in pre Cargo condition. Mark

Can’t see the Minitrix ‘new’ product announcement setting many pulses racing here: https://streaming.maerklin.de/public-media/m/nh24/1/MINITRIX/PDFs/EN_minitrix_nh2024_Online.pdf A re-released Swiss Express set and matching re-re-re-released Re4/4II is about it. Mark

Not so great for the rolling stock to go with the Italian motive power though! It looks like slate grey UIC’s and C1 liveried Eurofimas will appear again, but good luck trying to get hold of liver and grey UIC carriages … and please nobody mention full brakes! From what I’ve seen the 2023 releases of Italian coaching stock has sold out almost before it’s hit the shelves. The Lima NPZ was a frustratingly good model for its time. I can only assume the fact most recent liveries would require the tooling of a new centre car has ruled it out. Good second hand ones still often go at around the £150 mark even with the prehistoric Lima EWI. Mark

Can’t help but think they’d have done better by packaging up the Bdt with some SBB EWI’s all in NPZ livery. Surely the market for BLS driving trailers is fairly well catered for by Hobbytrain right now? Still, I suppose it does mean that we are finally seeing the Bdt without it being essential to buy an Rbe4/4 too. Mark

I did the Arosa branch last summer for the first time since it was converted from DC. I’ve got to say I thought the line had lost the vast majority of its character, as had Arosa itself. I have great memories of the Arosa branch in the early 90s with fairly short trains through the streets of Chur and quite a bit of freight traffic still. I’m sure lots of regular passengers appreciate the canopies at Chur and improved facilities at Arosa, but they weren’t exactly done sympathetically. The Bernina was clinging on to some of its charm when you got out of St Moritz, but I’m glad I did a trip with a pair of the last series of Triebwagen while I had the chance. Mark

Have you considered something based on the construction of a new tunnel? Both Gotthard and Lotschberg routes have had substantial new base tunnels in recent times. There’s also the new Albula tunnel on the RhB for inspiration if something a little less vast is needed. The Lotschberg was particularly interesting because it made use of BLS Ae8/8 locos on the spoil traffic. Both the locos and tipping wagons are available in N. Lots of pics and videos to be found, including this one on Flickr: Mark

I’m not particularly into the ‘modern’ scene as a modeller even though I still enjoy my Swiss visits - but I can definitely seen the appeal of the SOB bronze Traverso. It’s a ridiculously good train to travel on too. Fingers crossed that a model appears. Mark

Was thinking about this thread last night; from the outside looking in, it seems like absolutely everything a Swiss modeller could possibly want is available in HO. Are there any big gaps? Mark

Wow, that’s a mightily impressive plan. Can’t wait to see the layout (and thread) develop. I had to commit to N during the lockdown as it allowed me to build a layout next to my desk with ‘baseboard’ materials to hand, but I do wish I’d had the space for HO/HOm … if only for the availability of good and varied MOB stock for less than the price of a holiday! Mark

On balance, I probably agree. That’s why my initial plan was more of a blend between Montreux, Vevey and some of the surrounding area. Even by Lac Leman standards, Montreux is a bit of an outlier in the flamboyance of its Belle Epoque buildings. Vevey is a little more tempered. Having said that, the station area is getting more of a Montreux feel with every redraft. There are plenty of less glamorous buildings even in Montreux, although clearly it’s the likes of the Grand Hotel Suisse Majestic sticks in the mind. It’s also a great place to stay if you ever want to burn some money on a lakeside view, but that’s digressing somewhat! I might only attempt one relatively outlandish building and temper that with one of the slightly more modern 1960s/70s hotels. I’ve got a version 1.2 drawn up in SCARM now taking on board a lot of the feedback. I’m going to grow the depth of the board by a couple of inches to make all of the discussion about scenery a little more worthwhile. I’ve also modified the track layout to accommodate a Montreux style road crossing and a different exit for the branch. At the other end, I’ve shuffled things around to avoid trimming the island platform too much and found that the best way to avoid the goods yard and tunnel problems, is probably just to trim the tunnel. It might need an extra footbridge or something there to take away the impact of the curvature now on display though. Mark

It’s quite scary that it’s almost time to think about 2024 - although having said that, some of the more exciting 2023 announcements don’t seem likely to appear before the end of the calendar year. Can I tempt a repeat of the Re4/4 IV shock of this year by praying for an up to scratch EWII D luggage van? I think I’d buy half a dozen! Mark

I’m giving serious thought to tacking another six inches onto my baseboard at the front just for extra space to give an impression of the step down to the lakeside. In my ideal world I’d include a stretch of the lakeshore itself in the town - but how on earth you’d model such immaculately tended flower beds and perfectly pruned trees in 1:160 I just don’t know! I well remember walking along early one morning to see a team from the local council dead heading the flowers … it might only be a couple of hours away on a plane, but it’s a different world. Mark

Thanks for your thoughts … redesign of the level crossing end needed then. It’s definitely the pre-1996 look I’m going for, although certainly not a slavish replication of Montreux. I think the reason I’m drawn to the likes of Montreux and Vevey is the fact that you do often get glimpses of trains. Although it’s never going to come across on the free version of SCARM what I want to create is a series of glimpses on the station end of the layout and a sweep through some vineyards at the opposite end to balance it out. Ambitious yes, but I’m not after a ‘quick’ layout. In modelling terms I think my biggest inspiration has been this layout on YouTube: I think it does great job of creating several scenes in one layout. Mark

I’ve been concentrating on acquiring cross border stock of late, but during one of my recent orders I spotted some Minitrix EC wagen from the latest batch in stock. They’re not cheap, but I thought I’d give one a try anyway. What a disappointment. The paint finish is perhaps the worst I’ve ever seen on an N gauge model. The lower grey is clearly printed and looks like it’s been done with Hammerite! Even at normal viewing distance it’s discernible, but close ups aren’t pleasant at all. Comparing it to 30 year old Roco models is not favourable. You almost wouldn’t mind as much if it was a smaller manufacturer, or a bargain basement offering - but it’s not. Mark

Thanks Christian, some interesting suggestions. In terms of the sidings facing into a tunnel, you might be right - I’m not thinking practically there at all. In my mind I wanted to create a busy little scene between the overbridge and the tunnel that looked a little congested. I’m basically trying to create a photo opportunity over everything else there! Will experiment with the other way around. With the roads, I’m actually wanting to get some movement, but I’m really limited in showing what I want to do within SCARM. I think you’re completely right on the overbridge end though. I’ll revisit how that could look completely. The level crossing I’d like to give something at least a little evocative of Montreux but I’m going for a completely reversed angle. The finished thing needs a lot more roads, paths, steps, alleys etc. I need to go away and do some more research into the Lausanne end of Vevey in relation to the branch line. I thought the line in from Puidoux was similar; access to everything from the platform, but the branch can only get into the branch platform (or platforms at Vevey)? Maybe I’m wrong. I’m in two minds whether the restriction adds or subtracts operationally now - would certainly mean more shunting moves. And on the narrow gauge, you’ve got me thinking - perhaps NStCM or BVB might be an inspiration too. If I could get street running and some road vehicle movement, it could look great - I need to work out if it’s achievable though. Thanks again for your thoughts. Mark