Tony Burgess

I'd like to learn more about this sound project, having just purchased one. On the ESU Loksound Lokprogrammer the sound descriptions all come up in German, so I'm wondering if ESU selected the sounds from their fairly extensive library of European sound files. But my immediate need is to sort out why the volume set as maximum on CV63 is far too low - that's why I'm exploring this forum now to see if I can get a clue from others who had the same experience!

Have a look at DC Master - you should be able to find them at US suppliers, if not in UK, and on the leading online auction site. It is designed for accessing DCC decoders (including 4 Function calls) on AnalogueDC-controlled layouts. So with it you can change CVs as mentioned wrt acceleration etc, and - from memory - F1, F3, F4 & F8 buttons which allow you to sound the whistle etc to add to the "chuff" or diesel motor sounds, and random sounds, you have already experienced. You should be able to download the DC Master instruction book to study which will explain what the product does. You simply insert the DC Master between the output from your DC controller and the track. You may need to check the type and version of the sound decoder fitted to your loco and then enquire if DC Master will fully work with it. You may find a similar product available from Gaugemaster. Not all DCC sound fitted locos provide the basic sounds on DC you experience with your Jinty, so well done Bachmann. The sound chip will need about 5 or 6v to bring the sound circuits in, and that may be more important than the CV acceleration setting in explaining the behaviour comparison with non-sound DCC-chipped locos. I use several DC Masters on my layout. Their cost has probably increased since I bought them several years ago, when they were about £20-25 each. The Function buttons actuate ESU Loksound ver3.5 decoders, but I believe not the current V4 type. If you want to change CVs, a 2nd hand DC Master might well be your cheapest option.

Well, I've come rather late with my comment to this post! On the model, Kernow have provided "removable" or "placeable" headcode discs - their only option at 4mm/ft. On the real locos, the headcodes were made up not of removeable discs per se, but of permanent discs one half of which was foldable on horizontal hinges. From memory (photos would confirm) they showed black when the tops were folded down, and white when they were up. The question of how the crew treated the rear of the loco when coupled to the train is of course another issue - and perhaps the true nature of the question originally asked.

For anyone following this topic, I recently read the sentence below in the Mark Bowman paper "SR Co-Co Electric / BR Class 70 - The Southern Railway C-C Booster Electric Class 70 Locomotive". I have also read somewhere that they were very noisy when eg passing through a station pulling a freight. Even while stationary, Class 70 produced a noticeable droning noise due to the booster-set turning inside the body." Re the Class 71s (early numbers E5000 on), Arthur Tayler in his "Lifetime in Traction" book says - "The control gear for these locomotives was a logical development of the earlier Co-Co locomotives. A single motor-generator booster set fed four fully suspended traction motors.." As time allows I'll continue researching this; I feel a sound recording of either a Co-Co or Class 71 must exist somewhere. And when time allows I will refresh my memory of what might be added to a sound project on a Loksound decoder when the original project file is not available.

I've been looking at some of the ESU Fan & Ventilator files, and it is really interesting to check them out. To do so you need to download both the earlier version of Lokprogrammer s/w - ver 2.7.9 - (found here : http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/software/lokprogrammer/) and one of the sound files, say, 6184 (http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/sounds/generation-3/loksound-sound-library/). 1) Open Lokprogrammer 2.7.9 2) Choose "Open an existing project file" and click "Next" 3) Use "Browse" to find sound file eg 6184 which carries the name 06184-LSV35-Single Sounds-Ventilators1.esu, then "Open" & "Next" 4) Select "Sound" at the foot of the Left Hand Column options 5) Now select "User Sounds". At the top expect to see two rows of 8 boxes labelled Slots 1-16, 14 of which are blue. At the right you should also see a list of individual WAV files, in groups of three eg 01 German Radiator VT11-5 6) Click on one of the Blue boxes (expect to see the one chosen with a red outline) and a pop-up box appears showing the three related files. 7) There are two symbols near the RH top corner of the pop-up box - the one coloured green plays the three files in turn - "init(ial)", "loop", and "exit". 8) Check out these 14 options - I reckon one could use one or two of them to represent a Class 70 or 71 Booster. ESU Files 6181 "Compressors" and 6205 "Ventilators2" would provide further possible options from which to choose. With a knowledge of the situations when the Boosters "cut in" and the special skills it takes to create a sound project, as long as there is available memory on your decoder, the 3 chosen "Booster" WAV files could be incorporated. One of the easiest ways of using the Booster would be to allocate it to a separate Function Key, the operator then deciding when to use it. Be warned! Building sound projects using Lokprogrammer has a steep learning curve, but is quite addictive. Best place to start is by using a complete downloaded ESU sound project which you can then tinker with.

I see the point you are making. I think you're right that if you don't have the data file of the project loaded into your decoder by your supplier, then you would not be able to add a further sound element to it, even if the decoder still had enough free memory to allow it. So don't go out and buy the Lokprogrammer hardware just yet! However, if you had a WAV file of the sound element which would really enhance the project, the company who sold you the decoder might be willing to incorporate it for you and re-blow your decoder. The Lokprogrammer software is a free download. It would take time listening to the demo sounds of all ESU's Continental & N American Electric locos, but if you heard anything sounding like a Class 71 booster you could then download the project file for the loco concerned and after loading it into the Lokprogrammer s/w copy out the WAV file(s) of the element you found. If you go here, for example, you can play ESU's demonstration for the famous Swiss Krokodil loco: http://projects.esu.eu/projectoverviews/1?page=4&count=10&order=date&type=all&country=ch&cat=1 We could start another topic running again by asking why N American & Continental markets have so many free Loksound files available, whereas we in UK are beholden to buying non-accessible files from the decoder suppliers..

It can be done and is not difficult, and there must be a thousand or so WAV files available from ESU. One of my projects was wanting a ver3.5 sound file for a Spamcan, and I used sound files from one of the very few UK-outline projects on the ESU website. Unfortuneately, it is only for the later ver4 decoder. I copied the files I wanted (and modified some in Audacity), and then imported them into a new ver3.5 project. I got very well advanced with it, actually, before other things intervened (the story of my life - unfinished projects!). And subsequently prioritised the 20003 scratchbuild. I used the Lokprogrammer programme, and suspect that without it the WAV files could not be unpacked from the ESU file. If anyone wants to explore you can freely download the Lokprogrammer software from here - http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/software/lokprogrammer/ and find the UK-outline files amongst the hundreds for US & Continental locos here - http://projects.esu.eu/projectoverviews/1?type=all&order=date&country=gb As an aside, my layout is analogue DC, and I use "DC Master" sound controllers which allow access to four DCC Functions on Broadway Limited and Loksound ver3.5 chipped locos - in addition to the motor or chuff etc sounds available. (See http://www.broadway-limited.com/support/manuals/DCMaster%20Instruction%20Manual.pdf if inquisitive about the product, which also allows reading and writing CVs. Brilliant). Sadly when ESU developed their ver4 decoders, their ability to receive instructions from DC Master was no more.

I've been testing LaisDCC decoders. Amongst the least expensive, and wired for stay-alive. Give one a try, you can buy them in UK. More details via mfr website - http://laisdcc.com/.

Well you are right that those CVs don't feature in the sheets accompanying decoders R8215 and R8249 (R8249 also applicable to X9719, its 7pin version). The fact that they are not mentioned may not mean they do not feature them, though, particularly CV5. Have you thought of enquiring at Hornby about this - help.dcc@Hornby.com might each them. I would be extremely surprised, though, if their high-cost "Saphire" decoders lacked such basic CVs.

Just a thought - do you think any Continental locos had boosters like those used by the SR and BR(S) on them? If so and you could consider fitting a Loksound decoder, there might be a file on their website from which you could copy that sound element. Then that might be added to the assembly of suitable sound elements already mentioned. I'm fairly well advanced on a 00gauge SR CoCo at the moment - old TOPS class 70, and modelling 20003 - but although having fitted a LS plate and 8-pin DCC-ready pcb, squeezing in a sound chip looks as if it would be challenging space wise. But I had thought sometime to look for a booster sound file amongst the ESU offerings after I'd completed the body. So I'd be pleased to hear if someone meets your need.

I think that's a secondary issue, Andy. Perhaps you could tell us whether or not the GDPR requires us to eg renew our membership of RMWeb. And why would I want to register with World of Railways when my primary interest is to remain a RMWeb member? If remaining a member of RMWeb does require registration with World of Railways, simply send out another EMail stating that - then we will all understand..

Many thanks - this link worked well and a quick look over one or two projects shows what a wealth of advice is in this resource.

When I looked on the Bromsgrove Models website I found they had ceased trading. I never found the wiring diagrams!

Thanks, guys. As I thought about it I realised that there was a potentially simpler route that I could live with. Rather than put the necessary circuitry on the loco PCB, why not make up a special "Blanking Plug" for when the loco is on DC? The same as Suzie's, I guess, with the diodes eg 1N4001 on the Blanking Plug. If the photo & diagram upload work OK, you will see what I've done (though my soldering was pretty poor..). It seems to work OK on the termporary lash-up board, giving me confidence to continue with the loco wiring. A possible disadvantage is that the Blanking Plug MUST be inserted Pin1 to Pin1 for it to work correctly. Especially as I am thinking of using Pin3 - Green - AUX1 for the driver's end cab light. RAFHAAA96, it's ages since I used Bromsgrove Models and I'll certainly check to see what they have to offer. So thanks again to you both. My projects always take ages, and if I toast a chip because of the 'Blanking Plug + diodes' being incorrect when on the loco, I'll post again with a warning. EDIT 20 March 2018 - On the wiring diagram I had the 'Yellow' & 'White' headlight wires labelled the wrong way round - Pin6 White is for the front headlights, Pin2 Yellow for the rear. Diagram now corrected. Also I've run tests on the made-up board and everything seems to be working OK on DC supply with two makes of decoder. One of these has provision for a stay-alive capacitor, and - YES - another question answered in that the capacitor is "in circuit" at least as far as the lights are concerned when on DC. So I'm hoping that it also supports feed to the motor when on DC, to assist the loco through eg dirty track.

A very good summary of taking the more time-consuming route compared with "hard wiring". I'm scratch building a loco using a modified Mainline Class 45 chassis, and wanting to use a NEM652 8-pin socket to make it DCC Ready using the standard plug for a loco with headlights at both ends (ie plug linking pins 1,8,2 and pins 4,5,6). I can't quite get my head around it! If I was just on DC I could just wire the front & rear lighting to sockets 2 & 6, using diodes. But with a chip fitted, I need to use sockets 6 & 7 for the front and 2 & 7 for the rear. ie simply wiring as if DC only will not satisfy DCC. I have therefore been searching for a standard wiring diagram because having no idea what goes on inside the decoder I want to be sure I don't toast a decoder when I first test one. With NMRA having set up the DCC standards, I had hoped to find a basic wiring diagram (in USA a schematic?) within their technical papers. Could anyone help point me in the right direction? I'd be very grateful!

Thanks to you both - Wiggy1 and scafellpike. What you report is absolutely relevant. What started me on this aspect was that the ESU website gives suggested CV values for different manufacturer's motors, including Hornby-Arnold. This to me suggested that some consistency might be experienced, but clearly this is not the case. I do think it a little worrying that eg Wiggy1's jerky 45xx behaviour may be an intrinsic feature of ver4 Loksound decoders, suggesting to me that the circuit design is over sensitive and that it might be better to sacrifice in another area in order to facilitate installations. I wonder if fitting eg Zimo decoders would have resulted in similar jerky running? Many thanks, guys, for sharing your extensive experience!

My huge apologies for not having replied a year ago. Should your kind offer still be open, there are two locos presently active (though only just) regarding Loksound v3.5s and they are 1) Hornby Light Pacific to Service Sheet 294D design with motor X4026 (eg R2218/19/20/21/60/79/82/83/86 & R2315/16/85/88 & R2436/58). This motor is also used in the Rebuilt Light Pacifics to Service Sheet 298C design (eg R2584/85/86/87 & R2606/07/08/09 & R2708/09) and Merchant Navy to SS267C (eg R1038, R2310, R2466 & R2528/99) and 2) Hornby Stanier 8F to Service Sheet 261C design with motor X9018 (eg R2227/28/29/49 & R2393/94/95) Something cropped up which stalled progress on the Light Pacific sound file which I reckon I had 90% completed, and then other modelling things intervened which included helping Kernow with their Bulleid diesel-electrics project. Right now I'm scratch-building the SR/BR Bulleid CoCo 20003 and hope before too long to start thinking about a suitable sound file for that. Thank you

I've only just returned to this thread after a rather long time. I was researching sound for my Silver Fox / Bachmann chassis model and there was a question I never answered. Maybe you have. Were the locos prior to being fitted with the two air horns carrying a STEAM-type whistle? That's how it appeared to me looking at the photos. In which case, does anyone know what it sounded like? EG was it similar to those fitted to Bulleid's air-smoothed beauties?

Well, reading this post I know it is conventional wisdom that the split-chassis locos are rubbish - and I certainly don't mourn their departure - but I feel I should just record my recent experience. With a neighbour expressing interest in all things GWR I decided to give some of my GWR stuff an airing on the layout. This included a Bachmann 43xx split chassis loco which I hadn't run extensively before and not for more years than I care to admit. Now normally I don't commit to the track a loco that hasn't been run in ages until after I've checked all bearings etc are lubricated. But this time I thought I'd just put it on and see how it ran. The answer - faultlessly. Indeed, better than some old Hornby locos. We're on a Hornby thread, and so it's also worth recording that I've been working on a "late70s/early80s manufacture" County 4-4-0 with tender drive. Some extra weight in the loco, and extra pick-up for the rail the tender wheels use, and she runs beautifully. Looks very well, too, pulling long Hornby Clerestory bogies and a Clerestory 6-wheeler from a "cut&shut" cheapie. Again, don't misunderstand me, I love the greater authenticity of modern RTR stock. But the point of mentioning this is again to underline the fact that older models can be very good as well in the context of running on a layout.

I'm wondering if anyone can share with me the CV settings for Loksound ver3.5 or V4 equipped Hornby locomotives. We're talking CVs 53 to 56 in the case of a ver3.5, 51 to 56 for V4. Before you ask - the Arnold/Hornby motor characteristics option in LokProgrammer 4.4.20 simply returns the default values, so perhaps ESU havn't got round to allocating them for Hornby motor installations yet. So if you have a Ver3.5- or V4- fitted Hornby loco and know the CV values you are finding satisfactory, I'd like to receive them. If sufficient come in, it might be worth posting as a file for others to refer to. Judging by the Part Numbers on Hornby Service Sheets, several different motors may be fitted. So it would help if I knew the loco Class and R-number or Loco Running Number so that hopefully I could nail the motor Part No. EG - Class 8F R2228 - 8510 ver3.5 by Howes: CV 053 = 048 CV 054 = 032 CV 055 = 024 CV 056 = 064 And if using a V4, whether or not the CVs were "auto set" if you know that. Many thanks. Tony Burgess

Was browsing, and spotted this topic - well done for creating this list. Others may be better able to confirm, but I'm pretty sure that Loksound ver3.5 came in two "varieties" - one ( I presume the later production ) with TWICE the memory of the others. I think you will see confirmation of this on the ESU sound files listing. If there was any reference to this in the days when I bought my first ver3.5s, I was unaware of it, but maybe I diidn't have the knowledge to recognise that I was buying the smaller-memory ones. But in respect of factory equipped Bachmann locos, my guess would be that none of those sold into the UK market had the smaller-memory type. Tony

If anyone has a copy of the Maintenance Sheet per the above, I would be grateful if they could send it to me. When I tried this link it just about froze the computer, eventually downloading the first of the two landscape pages before the browser quit. My address - tandn@burgesstribe.co.uk Many thanks

Putting sound on to this loco raises a few questions. My understanding is that the loco uses two motors, right? From what I've seen posted, provision is made for a chip in the ashpan. Presumeably a single chip for both motors. Current capacity? Some have spoken of Heljan's motors as drawing higher currents than from other RTR manufacturers. Were the two mogul setups connected as with Shay locos? If they were the exhaust beats were presumeably always in sync, but if not - and given slight variations in tyre diameters, slippage etc - the beats would not always be in sync. In this case, might not two sound decoders be in order? So I'm looking forward to hearing how the Australian modellers have dealt with sound in their Garretts, and how UK modellers are planning to tackle this particular model! Tony Burgess