Steve Hewitt

I cannot see Lime Street listed on the official Warley site. I would hate to go to the wrong show.

 

Any ideas why it's omitted?

 

Puzzled of Askrigg

I think you were looking at the "View Layouts" part of the Warley website.

This is only a sub-set of the layouts at the show, for which they've chosen to publish photographs.

The "Exhibitors", tab on the top of their Home Page gives you the complete list.

Steve.

p.s. We had better be going, the van is paid for, and I'll be delivering it to John's place tomorrow afternoon, ready for an early start on Friday.

Now the station is surrounded by buildings it has a touch of Rochdale about it. Which reminds me, don't forgot a bus or two in the old corporation colours (Rochdale and Bury?).

From memory, I think the buses in Bacup were from Rawtenstall Corporation, Haslingden Corporation, Accrington, Burnley, Todmorden and Rochdale.

Rossendale buses were formerly Rawtenstall and Haslingden.

I seem to recall the Todmorden service was operated by some joint company with LMS connections????

The only services to pass the Station were those going to Accrington via Rawtenstall and Haslingden, plus possibly some local services.

Bury buses didn't make it up the valley to Bacup but did go as far as Waterfoot (second station from Bacup in the Bury direction), where they took the Lumb Valley road to Water.

Ramsbottom buses also came into the Rossendale Valley, but only as far as Rawtenstall.

The longer distance services used to be operated by Ribble Motors e.g. X43 Skipton, Burnley, Rawtenstall, Manchester, X53 Burnley Manchester, via Water, 236 Burnley Bolton etc.

Ah, memories zzzzzzz

Steve.

Starting with the arm bearings, these are made from 1/32in brass tube soldered to a small piece of scrap etch which can be glued and pinned to the post.

There are two small holes 0.45mm dia, one each side of the bearing.

Keeping the brass tube extra long makes positioning it for gluing much easier.

Once the bearing is glued in place, the small holes are drilled through the post and my favourite lace pins used to reinforce the joint, with a dab of Loctite superglue once more.

After its all fully cured, the brass tube is trimmed with very close cutting end cutters.

I sacrifice another pin during the cutting to pevent the tube collapsing.

The lower ends of the posts have been turned down to set the correct post height, and facilitate mounting at a later stage.

The balance arm bearings are glued in position, and the pivot pin will be glued as reinforcement at the final assembly stage.

Each base plate was marked out on Nickel Silver sheet, drilled and cut to size:

The hole for the foundation tube was cut to final size using a taper broach:

The foundation tubes were turned from Brass bar:

Assembled in the base plates, with the guide tubes (1/16in brass tube) also in place:

The mounting tubes are 1/2in dia brass tube, and will locate the signals in the layout and ensure the servo mountings are in the correct position:

More later....

Steve.

John Rocca, Brian Pickersgill and I have spent today helping John Holden to dismantle and pack the layout ready for its visit to the NEC at weekend.

John had already cleaned all the rolling stock and got it safely stowed in its cases. Each item has its designated place within the cassette system in which it all travels.

This means that once the layout is assembled at the NEC, getting all the stock into position is a very rapid process, taking about twenty minutes.

When each item used to be packed individually, and had to be railed by hand, it used to take about two hours!

During the dismantling all the track was cleaned for the first time in months!!!!!

I managed to get a few snaps during the day:

First the underside of the turntable, showing the mechanism a bit better than I managed previously when I tried to answer someone's query. You can hopefully see the two stage belt drive from the stepper motor to the turntable in this shot.

There are four custom built trolleys for transporting the layout sections. This is an empty one:

And a full one:

The roof also requires special consideration:

The larger North Roof:

And the slightly smaller South roof:

When loaded, the two boxes stack and lock together and lock onto their custom wheeled frame:

By the end of the day all the main packing had been completed, and the trolleys just await their blue protective covers, which will be added before loading into the van:

Once we set up at the show, the trollies convert into display stands behind the sector plate, carrying information about the prototype and our model.

Hope you can come along to see it, and us.

Steve.

These two LNWR signals are being built on real wooden posts.

I happened to have in stock two posts made for me some time ago by Scale Signal Supply.

They make up into a nice model, but the building techniques can be somewhat unusual for me, relying heavily on super glues!

(I haven't found the correct flux to allow me to solder brass to wood.)

I started as usual with a few components:

The two arms were made from MSE etches.

The balance arms are assembled from Alan Gibson etches.

The balance arm bearing is also from an Alan Gibson etch, here seen with the balance arm in place.

The lamps are MSE castings, drilled out for fibre optic cables.

The lamp brackets are made from brass tube:

A length of 3/16in dia Brass tube had a scrap of brass etch soldered over the end.

The tube is chucked up in the lathe.

With the end turned flush.

The lamp bracket can be cut off with a piercing saw and filed up to give:

More to follow......

Steve.

Many moons ago I used to make ladders using etched sides, or stiles, with individual wire rungs soldered in place.

No matter how careful I was, and how many jigs and aids I used, the result was always a bit disappointing.

I now use etched "ready to use" ladders, but with fine wire soldered to each stile to give strength and improved appearance.

The following snaps show my latest attempts:

This front view shows the wire soldered to the flat etch.

After soldering the wire in place, the sides are carefully filed smooth and flat:

This rear view shows the "un-improved" side, which is normally not easily seen when the ladder is added to a signal.

The handrail stanchions are my usual fine lace pins, soldered through the brass supports.

The handrail is 0.4mm N/S wire.

I started the forming at the semi-circular safety hoop, and worked round to the opposite or front side of the signal. The two ends of the handrail were joined by a short length of fine brass tube. The O.D. of the tube is only 0.6mm and it slides easily over 0.4mm wire.

This new range is very useful!

You can see the lamps have been added.

These are MSE white metal castings, drilled out to take the fibre optic cables for the lighting.

Thats it for now on this signal.

I'll make the two single post LNWR lower quadrants before they all go to the paint shop in a batch.

Steve.

Some more components:

Here is the base plate, marked out and drilled in a piece of Nickel Silver sheet:

This is the turned foundation tube which will be soldered into the base plate to ensure the main stem stands vertically:

The two dolls are brass tube of 2mm dia. with the arm pivot and lamp bracket added:

In place the two dolls are braced with a N/S rod:

Ladders, lamps and handrails to come next.

Steve.

This is the third (and final) short video from Monday's training session:

http://youtu.be/xPdplvNEGq8

One of the major trains to depart from Lime Street is "The Manxman".

Here we see preparations for it being made.

Off stage, the train draws onto the sector plate, and the engine uncouples.

The Edge Hill Pilot moves off the head-shunt and couples up to the empty stock.

We then see this empty stock movement approaching the station in the cutting, passing under the colour light signals, with the route to Platform 7 having been set.

A little later, the train engine - the Turbomotive - trundles down to the signal where it waits its turn to back down onto its train........

We are shortly starting the breakdown and track/stock cleaning of Lime Street ready for our trip to the NEC for the Warley show in a weeks time, so no more running sessions until its all set-up again JUST FOR YOU TO COME AND SEE.

If you been following us on RMWeb and get to Warley, do come and say hello and put a name and face to your username.

Steve.

Here's another short video from Monday's training session:

This time we watch a suburban service leave Plaform 1, take the Up Slow line through the tunnel, emerge briefly before passing out of our modelled area onto the sector plate.

From here we see it disposed of into the Fiddle Yard, Road 1 and its original engine move to a Head Shunt to await its next duty.

Please note that these training sessions are principally to prove the accuracy of the instructions and the reliability of the stock, and therefore the speed of the trains might often seem excessive.

Steve.

On Monday we had another great operating session in preparation for our visit to the Warlley show at the NEC.

I managed to grab a few video clips during the afternoon, and I'll post some of the them on YouTube as I get time.

Here is the first, showing a light engine moving out from Platform 1 to return to Platform 2 to couple to its train.

In the background, the station pilot comes down from the shunting Neck to collect a set of coaches which need re-marshalling.

Waiting patiently in Platform 7 is the Turbomotive at the head of a London Express.

http://youtu.be/V8mM_ZhRkVI

I'll post some more as and when I get the time to set them up on YouTube.

Steve

I've decided to start with the bracket signal.

Using the height to the Rule 55 Diamond as 12ft above rail height, or 13ft above ground, I've estimated key dimensions as follows:

Height from ground to top of staging is 18ft; and to centre line of top arm is 27ft. The lower arm is 2ft lower.

The design seems to be straight forward LMS, so I've used Graham Warburtons book for all the other dimensions.

The only unusual feature seems to be the high position of the balance levers, just above the Diamond, and they are at 90 degrees to the track direction rather than parallel to it.

So to the model:

The bracket assembly is at the very heart of this signal so I've started with that.

I turned three sockets for the main fixings. One for each doll, and one for the main stem.

The sides of each socket ensure the channel sections are the correct 12in apart and the whole is true and square.

I forgot to photograph the simple jig I used.

It was a piece of MDF, drilled 2mm for each doll position and 1/8in for the main stem.

Using HSS drills to position the three sockets, the two channel sections were held in position and the whole soldered together.

The brackets for the rocking shaft are 7mm scale medium handrail knobs.

The four angle section trusses were prepared together to ensure uniformity.

I soldered four pieces of brass angle together into a cruciform section, and cut and filed the bend positions before separating the pieces for assembly.

The balance arm pivot is prepared from a small pice of square brass tube:

The supports for the wooden staging were made from brass strip.

The main assembly then looks like this:

More to follow.

Steve.

My next little project is taking me back to where I first attempted to make models of signals.

It all started with my annual visit to the Wigan exhibition where I spotted an interesting display on the Embedded Controls trade stand. They had a small N gauge demonstration layout with some 4mm scale signals all working automatically. I was taken by the very prototypical way in which the signals operated, spending some time to understand the technology on offer.

At that time (Mid 1990's) our club - Blackburn & East Lancs MRS - had its newish 00 layout "Oxenholme" in a quite advanced state of construction and ready for display at our own annual exhibition the following year. As was common in those days, signalling had been ignored in the developments so far.

In one of those mad moments of enthusiasm, I decided I'd build the signals which the layout so obviously required. I purchased two of the Embedded Controls units, each comprising of a large servo motor and a Semaphore Controller, a copy of Derek Mundy's book on Signal Construction and went home to study our collection of photographs to see what I'd let myself in for.

For those who are not familiar with Oxenholme, its the junction on the West Coast main-line where the branch to Kendal and Windermere diverges from the route north. Northbound trains often required pilot engines or bankers for the climb through the now infamous Grayrigg, then after Tebay, the haul up to Shap.

We modelled Oxenholme from the road bridge at the southern end of the station to a position well beyond the double track junction of the branch line, on its falling gradient. (The main line is modelled on the level rather than on the prototypical climb). Consequently, all the activities associated with the engine shed were undertaken in the fiddle yard and not seen by the audience.

A major extension of the layout is currently underway, with the engine shed and various running loops to the south of the station being modelled. It has now come my term to stop admiring everyone else's work on the layout and do my own bit.

The extended scenic section requires three new signals to be built.

The north-bound main line needs a Home Bracket signal adjacent to the engine shed, which controls access to the Main Down Platform and to the diverging routes to the Windermere Platform and the by-pass road behind the station's rear wall:

Further from the station there are two signals where the Up Goods Loop re-joins the Up Main. These latter two were controlled in those days from Oxenholme No. 1 box, that with its adjacent over bridge will be the new scenic break on our layout.

So now its "finger out" time. The layout has been invited to the Kendal show in January, and I'd like to have the signals installed and working by then, if at all possible.

Steve.

I like your solution for fitting a light source to your fibre optic cable. How do you retain the fibres in your plug/socket. Are they glued or crimped. I understand 'superglues' can damage the filaments.

 

What size are the Helmsman LED's that you use?

 

As always your thread is a mine of information for us meer mortals.

 

All the best

 

Andy

Hi Andy,

I'm glad you find my postings helpful.

The fibres are superglued in the socket.

I make the socket a close fit, leave about 10mm or more of the fibres protruding, apply a drop of Loctite superglue and leave to dry.

I then snip off the ends of the fibres with a sharp pair of flush cutting snips.

If you get a drop of superglue on the surface of a fibre where its exposed, you do get some light escaping, but it doesn't seem to cause any long term damage as used in this way.

The LEDs I use are 3mm dia, and are Araldited into 1/8in I.D. brass tube.

The epoxy makes a good insulator for the LED conductors, preventing shorting through the tube.

Steve.

Excellent

 

Where do you source the lighting equipment from please ?

The lamps are MSE white metal castings.

The fibre optic is 0.020 in (American!) from All Components.

They have now stopped stocking it because of minimum purchasing quantities.

I have seen it from a different manufacturer on another stand at some show or other, but can't recall which.

Kytes Lites probably worth a try.

The LEDs, resisitors etc. are from Helsman Model Rail in Blackpool.

John Holden got them for me, as we use them on Liverpool Lime Street's signals.

Steve.

Great pictures Steve and a really useful description of how you route your fibre optics. Love the way you use the bend in to the lamp to make your backlight. Was this originally done by accident or did you know it would create this effect. I look forward to more installments in this masterclass of signal construction.

"Learning from experience".

Its only an accident when it goes wrong!

Steve.

Steve, brilliant work as usual, but unfortunately one part of the process I was particularly looking forward to seeing was how you did precisely that - namely hide the fibre optic strands between them exiting the whitemetal lamp and disappearing into the signal post or doll? Any chance of a photo or two of what that looks like, please?

 

Many thanks.

Ditto here, as I thought you couldn't put to tight a bend in fibre optics to get it from the lamp to the post and out. Pictures would be great, a 'how to' video would be even better.

Here are a few photos of the back of the signal which hopefully show how the fibre optics are routed:

You can see above how the fibre is bent at almost a right angle as it leaves the rear of the lamp casting.

From there the curves are kept as shallow as possible to minimise light leakage.

The fibres are routed along the structure and "tie wrapped" at intervals with fine white cotton thread. The knots are sealed with a tiny spot of cyano and the ends trimmed flush with sharp neddlework shears.

(Also excellent for removing items from brass etches - you can cut right up to the edge of the component and leave almost none of the tag.)

Fibre optics work by guiding the light from one end to the other by "total internal reflection".

Light won't leak out so long as the angle at which it strikes the internal surface of the fibre is shallow enough.

When the angle is too acute, some light will pass out of the fibre, and be seen as a feint glow.

Light leakage is also facilitated when the surface of the fibre is damaged by scratching or contamination. At the location of the damage, the angle at which the light strikes the surface becomes too acute for reflection, and it escapes.

By bending the fibre sharply where it comes out of the lamp casting, the small light leakage simulates the "back light":

I hope you can just see the yellow glow at the rear of the lamp, to the right of the ladder hoop.

Sorry, not enough hands to make a video.

I need all three just to tie the knots!!!

Steve.

Assembling all the bits, and making the arms (in this case only one!) move is the really rewarding part which comes next....

 

Steve.

Here then is the final assembly process.

The operating wires are carefully cut to length, with the ends bent to a right angle. (Careful which way the bend goes! I've lost count of how many I've made "wrong handed" over the years.)

I usually start with the connection to the signal arm:

In this case the other end of this wire is connected to the Rocking Shaft crank:

The wire from the other end of the Rocking Shaft to the Balance Arm is next:

Final connection will be to the servo motor.

First the wire from the Balance Arm is passed through the Guide Tube in the base plate.

From underneath, this is sleeved with a length of 1/32in brass tube up to ground level:

Below ground this is connected to the Servo by a length of 1/16in brass tube, formed to be a fit in the Horn of the Servo:

Repeat the above for each other arm in turn, and you should have a working signal:

Finally here is another of my Low Res videos:

In this case the Servo Controller is an Embedded Controls unit, which have been used on all the Carlisle signals I've built.

Steve.

Next step is to print out the instructions on the correct index cards.

This will then allow two operators to control the station at the same time, and we'll see how well balanced the workload is for the operators.

Fingers crossed we don't have to make too many alterations before we can "freeze" the schedule and start proper training sessions for the Warley show.

 

Steve.

John, Rob and I have today spent our third session checking and refining the operation sequence.

We think it is now ready for use at the Warley show in just over three weeks time.

The rest of the operating team will be starting their training sessions on Friday this week, and in two weeks time, everyone should have had at least two full days practice.

At the show we will be organised into two teams, doing alternate shifts of one hour.

This should ensure there are team members available to talk to anyone who wishes to discuss any aspects of this great project.

Just come along and make yourself known to one of us and we'll do our very best to answer your questions.

Steve.

The saga continues:

 

Having determined that only two arms on the prototype actually operated, I've reduced the balance lever bearings to one, which will carry one working and one dummy balance lever.

 

The model will have working lamps, using Fibre Optics from a below baseboard light.

The MSE cast lamps are drilled through 0.5mm before fixing to their brackets:

 

And this is the state of the signal prior to painting:

 

More soon....

Steve.

So, here we are after some painting.

First the fibre optics have been threaded through each lamp, and routed down the signal's structure to disappear inside the main stem.

They re-appear "below ground", where they are teminated in a "plug".

This plug is turned from brass bar, but it could just have easily been made from telescoping brass tubes.

Its purpose is to hold the ends of the fibres up close to the LED light souce, which itself is mounted (glued) in a brass tube, and epoxied to a scrap of wood for later mounting. You can make out the 1k ohm resistor hidden in the heat shrink.

The LED is a "Gas Light" from Helmsman Electronics. Its colour is better than white for use in signals.

The effect on the signal is:

I preparation for the operating wires being installed, the Rocking Shaft has been made:

And the arms have been painted:

Assembling all the bits, and making the arms (in this case only one!) move is the really rewarding part which comes next....

Steve.

The signal is looking good, but I noticed that you leave the balance arms off while you paint it. How do you then attach the balance arm spindles to the painted post so that they stay in place and you do not damage the paint job?

 

[EDIT] Sorry another question. What are the pins you use for the cranks and balance arms? I'm assuming dressmakers pins are to heavy and thick for the job.

All the moving bits are left off and painted or blackened separately to the main structure.

The blackened balance arms are eventually assembled in their bearing by inserting a shortened lace pin of 0.45mm dia.

The pin is retained with a minute drop of Loctite under the head.

The head is then coloured with a permanent Black Marker.

Pictures will follow when I reach that stage.....

The pins used on this model are all the same.

They are the arm pivots, the balance lever pivots and the handrail stanchions.

I buy all my pins from a Lacemakers' supplier. http://myweb.tiscali...ornsby/Home.htm

They are excellent quality products and the firm are very good to deal with.

Steve.

The saga continues:

Having determined that only two arms on the prototype actually operated, I've reduced the balance lever bearings to one, which will carry one working and one dummy balance lever.

The model will have working lamps, using Fibre Optics from a below baseboard light.

The MSE cast lamps are drilled through 0.5mm before fixing to their brackets:

And this is the state of the signal prior to painting:

More soon....

Steve.

This is a fascinating and informative thread. They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery so this is my first attempt at building 4mm signals using some of your methods. The only thing I'm missing is the lathe to turn sockets for the posts to make sure they are square on the base plate.

 

If mine turn out half as good as yours Steve, I'll be very happy.

Thanks for your comments.

I started the topic hoping to encourage others to "Have a go", so I'm pleased that you've taken the plunge.

I must say your progress to date looks very encouraging.

I've found your layout topic, so I'll keep an eye on your project from time to time.

Steve.

A little more to report, having been "at rest" with this project for a couple of weeks or more.

The specification for the working elements has now been defined.

Because the left hand doll refers to a route which isn't modelled beyond the immediate pointwork, the arms will be fixed.

The right hand "distant" will also be fixed, as the prototype.

There is only one working arm, the right hand "home".

The original intention had been for all four arms to be operational, and the foundations had been made for such as shown here:

First the tube which is turned from brass bar, to ensure the main post is vertical to the base plate:

The base plate is Nickel Silver, marked out and drilled in the sheet:

The hole for the turning is opened up to size using a taper reamer:

The base plate is cut from the sheet with a piercing saw.

The flange on the turning is relieved where the guide tubes for the operating wires will pass through:

The tube is positioned in the base plate, and soldered with the blow torch:

The guide tubes are 1/16in dia brass tube, to give a sliding fit on 1/32in dia tube which in turn will be soldered to the actual operating wires. This is designed to keep the length of the operating wires to a minimum to help avoid any buckling when "pushing".

Finally, the 5/8in dia brass tube is fitted. This gives an easy method of installing and securing the signal on the layout, and locating the board on which the servos will be mounted.

This was how far I'd got when progress was halted.

This base will be retained for use on a suitable Carlisle signal at a later date. The list of signals needed seems to grow like topsy.....

I've now replaced the above with a similar but simpler foundation for only one operating wire.

More soon,

Steve.

You know, I could be standing there in the six foot seventy years ago(I hadn't actually been born then, but you know what I mean!); it's only the model railway coupling which gives the game away.

 

You need to look to your train lamps though: one on the stock but none on the loco. The bobby would be most unimpressed!

As Andy said in the caption to the picture, it was taken back in February.

Since then John has added lamps to all or almost all the locos.

One or two other details which show up on such excellent photos have also prompted attention.

Steve.

As always, an excellent bit of engineering as well as a nice bit of modelling. Hope to see it in the flesh at Manchester!

JF

Hi Jon,

I'll be a visitor to the show, on Saturday.

When are you going?

We might rendez-vous?

Steve.