Steve Hewitt

A quick word on how this signal functions might be helpful here so..

 

Each of the shutters has a route name on it (usually of 5 letters or less) and is lifted into position in the display by pulling the appropriate lever in the ‘box.

The weight bar for the actual signal arm is within all the other operating arms on the post. It has a cross bar fastened to it in such a way that if any shutter is lifted, it lifts up the weight bar thus moving the signal arm with it. When the shutter is lowered, the signal arm returns to danger by gravity. There is no direct link from signal lever to the arm.

On the model, the same principle applies so all the mechanics must be free working and on the etch, an extra spectacle plate is included to add extra weight to assist the signal to return to danger. I’m going to have to be careful with the paint then….!

 

 

 

More soon.

JF

Jon,

I've got some of these to build in 4mm scale, where gravity is certainly not sufficient to bring the arm back to danger.

I plan to use a further servo to drive the balance arm for the signal arm.

Its controller will then be connected so that it clears the signal concurrently with any of the route boards being displayed.

Similarly it will return to danger when the route board is returned.

Steve.

Some of the photos show that some buildings are still quite grubby.

 

http://i.telegraph.c...ea_1451670c.jpg

 

The colours in this picture, particulary the houses, are very nostalgic!

I was brought up in Rawtenstall, travelled by train from there to Waterfoot each day to attend Bacup & Rawtenstall G.S.

(Still is a grammer today).

L&Y Push Pulls until the first diesel units came in the later 50's.

What a view sitting right on the driver's shoulder.

If you're doing terraced houses, don't forget to "donkey stone" your front steps.

Most such houses had a "coal cellar" into which the sacks of coal were tipped, 1 cwt. at a time.

The pavement access to the coal shute was covered by an iron casting, about one foot square, itself retained by a chain.

Could make a nice cameo if you're into that sort of thing.

Steve.

The video on the British railway Modellers Youtube page is great enjoyed all of the 17 min of it!

Here's a link to it, if you've missed it earlier:

Steve.

I collected my latest edition - No. 36 - of LMS Journal at the York show yesterday. In it the regular feature on signalling, "LMS Signals No 29.", by Reg Instone and L.G. Warburton deals comprehensively with the Lime Street Re-signalling of 1948.

Although the results of this major project are in the period immediately after that which we model, there is a wealth if information to help us improve the authenticity of our running procedures.

The project was originally planned just before the war, following an LMS Traffic Committee meeting which heard that the then present system was "Life Expired". It seems that much of the planning was completed during the latter years of the war with revisions being made up to May 1947.

The new system was commissioned on Jan 28th 1948. Within one month, the old signal box had been demolished and tracks laid over the area to allow extension of Platforms 6 & 7 and Siding E.

The article concludes that, although much modified, the Power Frame is still use, having been refurbished including new windows in 2003!

They made things to last in those days.

Steve.

The position of the balanced bracket and the connections in front of it would imply there were platform signals on at least one platform at Lime Street, are these modelled or is there information to prove / disprove my theory ?

Not sure what you mean by "connections in front of it"?

Earlier posts on this topic included several photos of the signals on Lime Street.

There are a total currently of 32 working semaphores on the model, with several more to come.

Vast majority are platform mounted, exceptions being where the platform ends under one of the overbridges.

The double ground signal in the foreground of the recent picture of the Patriot propelling stock into a platform is also modelled.

The models are based wherever possible on photographic evidence, and are a mixture of LNWR lower quadrants and LMS conversions to upper quadrant.

Steve.

shots of the station approaches before the changes to the signal box and platform extensions in 1948 are rare, heres one from the late 1930s.

Nice one Michael.

Lots of detail for us to incorporate when the throat area is detailed.

Rob can have a field day.

Particularly like the stuff around the turntable, and those posters on the wall.

We can try to reproduce that shot, without the hitch-hiker.

Steve.

Jon,

Very nice!

How do you drive five arms / servos with a Servo4 board?

Is that unconnected lead in the background the answer?

Steve.

 

If I can organise it, and anyone wants to see it I'll post up a test video with lights lit and signals going down and up & stuff.

 

JF

Yes, please Jon.

Steve.

Many thanks to one and all who have been discussing the way to deal with Train Engines which have been detatched from Arrivals at Lime Street.

The issues seem to be how to represent the alternatives:

1. Park the loco at the buffers and dispose of it later.

2. Allow the loco to follow the departing train as far as the Platform Starter, there to await disposal.

3. Use the loco to bank the departing train up the cutting to Edge Hill.

We currently operate as per alternative 1.

Specifically, an arriving train is stopped on the uncoupler.

This completes the Arrival operation.

After a delay to allow time for the crew to uncouple the train, the engine is drawn forward to the buffers in an Internal operation.

(The audience are probably watching something else by now, and are less likely to see any shuffling back and forth over the magnet, should that be necessary!)

"Internal" means it is an operation which does not affect the Sector Plate operator.

When the time comes for the train to depart, pulled by its new loco., control of the Departure movement is by the operator at the Sector Plate.

The Station operators set the route, but this does not include the "buffers" part of the platform which cannot be driven form the Sector Plate.

After the train has departed, and the Sector Plate operator has cancelled the route, the station operator now has two two alternatives.

For an engine which is staying within the station, he sets an appropriate route and executes it, using the appropriate signal.

For an engine which is going up the cutting to Edge Hill, he sets an Internal route, draws the enginge to the platform starter, which he holds at danger.

He then sets the route for the engine to be driven up the cutting by the Sector Plate operator, who executes it as a Departure operation.

The necessary section switching to allow us to operate with alternatives 2. and 3. above are partially installed.

All the track sections are in place, the relays to handle the switching are also present but not currently operational.

These will eventually allow the alternative 2. to be executed by the Station Operator as soon as the departing train passes the trip which returns the Starter Signal to danger. i.e. following, but not immediately, the departing train.

At present, the Station Operator could use his control of the "Buffers" section move up to the rear of the train, and follow it into the Route controlled by the Sector Plate operator, and it would bank the train all the way to the Sector Plate.

This is not currently in our operating sequence, and would require considerable matching of loco performances to guarnatee a reliable operation.

We are short enough of locos as it is!

Having spent some time discussing this with John on the phone this evening I hope I've got it right.

If not I'll issue a correction later.

Steve.

Hi Steve,

If I can fight my way through the massed hoards round the now legendary Lime Street I'll certainly have a chat. As far as learning from others, many thanks for introducing me to servo operation! You've probably forgotten more than I've learnt regarding signal building!!

I still haven't mastered soldering built up ladders yet................

JF

Hi Jon,

Sorry we only had time for few words at Ally Pally.

Never been on such a busy exhibit before.

As to "solder-up" ladders - I've stopped a while ago.

I use the best (finest) flat etches I can find, preferably with half etched rungs.

I then solder fine Nickel Silver wire up the rear of the ladder stiles to give strength and depth.

I use .3mm wire on 4mm models and .6mm or .7mm wire on 7mm scale ones.

Polish up the edges with a fine file or emery board to finish them off.

Hope to have a longer chat at a future show somewhere....

Steve.

 

More in a few days.

Looking forward to Ally Pally on Sunday!!

JF

Jon,

Please call at Liverpool Lime Street and make yourself known.

I've followed your efforts on this topic with great interest for some time.

(Always looking to learn from others).

Hope to meet you on Sunday,

Steve.

All packed up and ready to go to Ally Pally. We even have nominated team leaders responsible for different aspects of the packing up process. Each team leader has a written detailed list of tasks to be done. All very efficient and it seems to work well so far.

Yes, Indeed!

The whole layout is now ready for loading into the van as this general view down the "shed" shows:

Everything on the railway has a place.

Here are two of the trolleys with baseboards stowed for transit:

Not much spare room:

The fabulous roof needs two cases, here with the roof builder Les:

And the roof sections during loading:

Finally, the trolleys get their bespoke dust covers:

While John and Pauline are busy on domestic matters.

It was a mild day in the North West today:

The next time most of the team will see this is when we unload at Ally Pally on Friday afternoon.

If you're coming to the show this weekend, do come and introduce yourself.

It always good to put a face to a name of our followers on RMweb.

We should have enough of the team available to answer any questions fully, so don't be shy.

Looking forward to an enjoyable weekend,

Steve for John, Les, Rob, Michael, Chris, Tony and John R.

for a time Lion was on a plinth at Lime street. now resides down the road in the new Liverpool muesum

 

Hi Michael,

Do you know when Lion was move from Lime Street?

Steve.

Will the DVD also include the working roadways etc?

I don't know about a DVD. I think the video is just available on-line, and is complete in itself.

The trams and roadway are still being developed, and will no doubt be the subject of videos in the future.

Steve.

I said on an earlier post that I'd show some shots of the roadway system.

I suppose I'd better describe the system first:

It has two main components, namely the Trams and the Faller roadway which are integrated in one control system.

The trams shuttle along Lime Street and round the rear of the Hotel to the return loop.

You can see the track on the overall Track Plan on the first post of this topic.

At rest the tram is parked at the southern end of Lime Street on the model.

The Faller system is larger and more sophisticated.

The main loop runs parallel to the tram tracks along Lime Street and round the rear of the hotel to its return loop.

Back along the front of the station, the main route continues round the corner into Skelhorne Street and up the hill.

Straigth on over the second bridge and round the warehouse to the parking bays.

From the parking bays the route crosses another bridge and re-joins Skelhorne Street for the decent back to Lime Street and off we go again.

That is the route followed by a basic vehicle such as the car or bus.

The control system sends a vehicle out of the parking bay and on its journey.

After a second or two, the second vehicle moves forward in the parking bays to await its turn, leaving the second bay free for the first vehicle to return to.

When the vehicle has negotiated the route to the far end, and is returning along Lime Street, it triggers the Tram to start.

During the rest of the road vehicle's journey, the Tram will shuttle up and down Lime Street three times before waiting in the rest position again.

If the vehicle is "non-standard", the route is more sophisicated.

The Taxi is recognised as it approaches the station entrance which triggers a point change so it travels up the Coach Road between platforms 7 & 8 round the loop at the end and back out of the station again, to coninue along Lime Street and up Skelhorne Street back from whence it came.

On reaching its destination it triggers the next vehicle to depart and so on.

That process will run continually all day without any intervention.

If anything goes wrong, such as a flat battery or a vehicle missing its way, an alarm sounds on the Station Operators' panel, and one of them has to fix it.

If the system is being actively operated, then the vehcles can also made to stop in parking bays along platforms 7 & 8, to drop off or pick up passengers as appropriate.

The post office van can likewise service the TPO train when it is in its Siding.

I have a few short video clips which show some of this happening:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJZkIeeTPl4&list=UUDnwPuzDmT7h76KLUmpEB0g&index=4&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PZJ6IZrh2M&list=UUDnwPuzDmT7h76KLUmpEB0g&index=5&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCfJhZ5o-TE&list=UUDnwPuzDmT7h76KLUmpEB0g&index=7&feature=plcp

Steve.

^^^

Great video clips! But what is that whirring/whining sound in the background?

Two sounds you regularly hear, in addition to operator's chat!

Point motors as a route is set - Fulurex.

The higher pitched noise is the Stepper Motor as it indexes the Sector Plate.

These two clips might explain a little about how we use the storage system.

Here John draws a train from its storage road onto the Sector Plate and uncouples the engine under the lighting gantry where he uses the video camera to see the process clearly.

http://youtu.be/JjiYr3qEbfw

He then attaches an engine from the Head Shunt and indexes the Sector Plate ready for the Station Operators to drive the train down to Lime Street.

http://youtu.be/Gcp7afv-jhg

Steve.

A few more video clips of yesterday's train movements:

The main part of the Merseyside Express is already in the station and passengers are boarding.

The two coach portion from Southport arrives to be added to the front of the train.

The train engine, the Turbomotive, which has been waiting at the signal gantry then joins the train.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXtc1FFN00Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTHb0BxhktI

A little while later we watch the train depart, looking over the full length of the station roof...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMcvx_gYIMk

The Scot having been turned and watered moves to collect its train.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt6YbIvOmfk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1tGzny-cv8

Later in the day we see the West of England service arriving, looking over the wall on Skelhorne Street.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ9cocDHAps

The Railmotor service has been held at the gantry on the fast line, but gets the right away as it is passed by a suburban service on the Slow line.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8Do9NWodRw

Some other movements:..............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rEwz2AcDRo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuDVyCkczy4

I'll post some more shots of the trams and roadway later.

Steve.

Mike, Chris, John and I have just spent the day on Ally Pally preparations. Completed one full run-through of the operating sequence. All members of our team have now completed at least one days operation practice.

I managed to get a few video clips. Unfortunately they take ages to post onto You Tube, so I've just put one sample here for now.

More will follow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsbJvZBawi8&feature=youtu.be

Steve.

Spent today preparing for the Ally Pally show.

New operator John Rocca had his first session on the Station control panel, with old hand Mike Delamar.

Mike managed a few shots with his camera which he's already posted on here.

I've borrowed a video camera as we get requests for video from RMwebbers, and when I get the clips up on to You Tube, I'll post some links on here.

(They're very much a "First Time With This Camera", so don't expect too much.)

 

Steve.

I saw the third photo in Mike Delamar's post here: http://www.rmweb.co....post__p__606981

 

So I decided to check out the Google Street view of Skelhorne Street today: http://g.co/maps/uhgja

 

Says it all really....

Here's one of the videos, with a view up Skelhorne Street.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQP0Dc3Gaok&list=UUDnwPuzDmT7h76KLUmpEB0g&index=12&feature=plcp

More of the trains will follow...

Steve.

Whilst stopping for lunch the other day, John showed us a video he made of the embryonic Lime Street at the Lytham show back in 2006.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK4NFGKBmko

If you look carefully you can see the sector plate, fiddle yards and the Cutting were very well advanced, and are not much changed today.

The station then only consisted of the Northern side platforms, very much as skeletons, with the South side nowhere to be seen beyond the perspex safety wall.

Also in the video are several modellers who are now regular participants in this great project:

John of course, plus Geoff, Brian, Les, Tony and myself are there.

Steve.

Spent today preparing for the Ally Pally show.

New operator John Rocca had his first session on the Station control panel, with old hand Mike Delamar.

Mike managed a few shots with his camera which he's already posted on here.

I've borrowed a video camera as we get requests for video from RMwebbers, and when I get the clips up on to You Tube, I'll post some links on here.

(They're very much a "First Time With This Camera", so don't expect too much.)

Steve.

Some recent posts have mentioned the "wiring" underneath Lime Street's boards, and Mike's recent pictures of some of the trackwork made by Chris Hewitt have prompted me to try to describe how the layout is actually controlled, and the the technology that has been used to create the control system.

 

The principles are basic DC control.

There are three controllers, two for the Station area and one for the Sector Plate/Storage Sidings.

Traction current is applied to the track only in the sections necessary for the selected routes.

 

Blah, Blah, Blah.................

 

I'll take a breather here, and post some details of the two main processers etc. later.

 

Steve.

My previous post raised a few questions which I hope I've answered.

One point I forgot to make at the time was that the relay array shown is dedicated to that one baseboard.

Each baseboard has its own relay array, of a size determined by the number of active elements needing control.

Logically above all these boards are the two main control cabinets.

One is used for Station control and links the Station Control Panel to the layout.

The other cabinet sits under the Sector Plate and links that Control Panel to the layout.

At the heart of these cabinets are the industrial process control computers which create the "Routers".

There are other computer control systems dedicated to such things as Video Switching. This ensures that the video displays on the operators' panels show the appropriate view for the task in hand.

e.g. When a Station operator sets up an Arrival route, his display will automatically show the "handover" section of the sector plate, so he can drive his train properly. As the train approaches the station his view changes to show the correct platform.

Conversly, when a Departure is routed, the Sector Plate display will show the correct platform view as soon as the operator accepts the train. He can then drive it smoothly away. As it progresses past the Signal Box, his view automatically changes to follow the trains progress until it arrives in front of him on the Sector Plate.

Because these control systems have to "talk" to each other, they share a Local Area Network which links all such elements on the layout.

Now what do they look like:

This is the front of the Station Control cabinet.

This rear view shows the two layers of connecting cables.

Each cable ends in a twenty-five way plug. There are fifteen cables.

This is how the cables connect to the local baseboard for onward distribution along the layout.

Looking inside:

"A" and "B" are the two DC Controlers. "A" is the laft hand operator, and "B" is the right hand seat.

When an operator sets a route, the system links his controller automatically.

(The hand held device with the speed control and direction switch is actually just a remote control for the actual controller which is built in here).

A closer view of the opto-isolators which connect the power to track sections.

The one illuminated is the supply to Platform 1.

This view of the left hand side shows the main process control chips, bottom left.

Closer view of the connections to the external cables.

Under the Sector Plate is the control cabinet for that end of the layout:

This is it - known as the "X" box.

As you can see, it is a four layer assembly of Geoff's wizardry.

The top layer is the main "Power" area, with the main transformers, fuses etc. etc.

Second layer down is the controller for the Sector Plate itself.

You might just be able to read the instructions for calibrating it....

This layer is the Fiddle Yard router....

Finally a shot of the Stepper Motor and mechanics which position the Sector Plate so accurately for us.

In addition to the "Railway" proper there's the road and tram system, but that's another story for another day!

Steve.