Newbie2020

Hi Again!

Quick update. Carpet down, front part of garage floor painted to match and some base boards down (not permanently fixed yet) the right side (as you look at it) will be the fiddle yard side. 

Visit to Mech Models inBurton on Sunday for a chat with Richard from DCC Concepts on setting up a separate accessory bus, independent of the digitrax which will control the track bus, and setting up the Cobalt S levers that will control the points and signals at the branch line station at Millhampton. Also about setting up the power districts and controlling those. Thanks again Richard, a 40 minute chat went above and beyond in my book!

Thanks to Mech Models for the fantastic display of American style N gauge layouts, they all looked great! Especially liked the Wild West one! ? Maybe I need to extend already ???

Clive

As some of you may remember, last year SWMBO agrred to let me have the whole of the garage for the new extended Lyneworth layout. The original layout was set up on an 8x4 board in the garage using setrack geometry and proved very difficult to successfully extend. This is where RMweb came in! I put out the  call for ideas and after a lot of really good suggestions, ideas and discussion Phil  @Harlequin came up with this plan:

As this is going to take up the whole of the garage I thought I would take the opportunity to dry line and insulate the garage walls and floor. Having a business to run and still recovering from  recent back surgery it took me a bit longer than expected! (Not run a train now since before Christmas - except on the rolling road but that hardly counts!).

However, I'm all finished!

Carpet comes tomorrow and I have the timber to start on the base boards. 

First batten in place!!!! Progress!!!

I'm going to keep this thread going with updates and pics as the new Lyneworth and Millhampton develops!

I'm sure I'll have a lot of questions and requests for advice in the coming weeks and months!!

Clive

Tracked a couple of those down - bargains on second hand book sites!! That should keep me going for a bit!

Thanks every one

Clive

2 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Monster (I meant ‘Johnster’, but autocorrect has its own ideas!) gives a good, practical overview for your purposes, but his final point is very true indeed.

 

If you want a “helicopter view” of the subject, which I would advocate obtaining before getting enmeshed in the detail of particular coaches, at particular times, built for particular companies, look out for a book by Jenkinson called something like ‘The History of the British Railway Carriage 1900-1953’ or ‘The History of the British Railway Carriage in the Twentieth Century’ I think it’s been published in a single volume, then an enlarged version in two volumes, and you can find secondhand copies at low prices.

 

 

Yes I think thats what I want to do  first - a general history and types  etc then look closer at the type used in the era of Lyneworth. Thanks

6 hours ago, The Johnster said:

The following is a basic and rough starter guide to WR coaching stock; one can basically divide WR tranistion period coaching stock into 3 fundamental types, gangwayed, non-gangwayed, and auto trailers,

 

Gangwayed stock has gangway connections at each end, and usually at least one lavatory compartment.  It will include side corridor compartment, centre aisle open saloon, catering, and sleeping vehicles, and is used on long distance main line trains.

 

Non-gangwayed stock, sometimes described as 'suburban' or 'compartment' stock, has unconnected compartments across the full width of the coach, and is used on shorter distance trains where lavatory and catering provision are not needed and a high seating capacity is; I've just described suburban commuter work, but such coaches were also used on branch line and some main line short distance stopping trains.  Each compartment has a central access door flanked by two windows on each side of the coach.

 

Auto trailers, push-pull coaches, are probably more common on the WR than anywhere else, and may be hauled or propelled by a suitably equipped locomotive.  They have open saloons and a driving cab at the leading end from which they are driven when the train is being propelled.  They are correctly associated with branch lines, but in reality the majority of their work was short haul main line and suburban.

 

Ok, to enlarge on this, within the previous description of 'basic and rough' guide, gangwayed stock consisted of several types, the most up-to-date of which for your period are BR standard mk1 64' designs  In 00 RTR these are produced to a very high standard by Hornby and Bachmann.  Prior to these being built, the latest were what were called (after their designer) 'Hawkworth 64' coaches, which looked a little different with half-domed roof ends and slightly smaller windows; Hornby make a very good range of these to a high standard.  These were built between 1941 and about 1954, but were being withdrawn by the end of steam on the region in 1965. 

 

Next back in time are the 'Collett (designer again) 60' 'sunshine stock' coaches from the 1930s, which were flat ended; Bachmann do them but the toolings are a bit long in the tooth now, being originally Mainline models.  Only side corridor coaches are produced, an all-third and a brake composite.  They lasted up to about 1962.  Older than these were the 'Collett 57' bowended' coaches, built in the 1920s.  These are produced to a good standard by Hornby, and several types are available.  They lasted until about 1960. 

 

As to non-gangwayed 'suburban' stock, there is less RTR variety.  Produced from about 1953 were the 57' and 64' BR mk1 'suburbans', available from Bachmann, but these are again rather dated ex-Mainline toolings.  Next are the Collett 57' types, to a high standard, from Hornby, which lasted up to around 1962 or so, but the introduction of high-desity dmus between 1958 and 62 decimated both types.  Some of the BR types had very short service lives.

 

Auto trailers, again taking the most recent and working backwards through time; we start with Hawkworth 64' 'diagram A38' trailers, built during 1948-50 and lasting until the end of steam.  A good model is made by Bachmann.  The only other RTR auto trailer is a 'diagram A30' Collett type from 1930, with toplight windows, from Hornby but originally an Airfix product and not really up to the standard of modern toolings.  These lasted until about 1962.

 

 

This is an overview of what is available currently from the RTR manufacturers.  A squiz on the Bay of e will turn up Collett 'Centenary' gangwayed coaches, a brake 3rd and a composite, built in 1935 and a somewhat individualistic design with recessed vestibule doors and, originally, Beclawat slide-down windows; these were a common feature on Continental stock for many years.  They are an old Airfix tooing, see my earlier comments about older toolings, and although Airfix and others produced them in BR liveries, they were rebuilt post-war without the Beclawats, which were replaced by the 4-panel sliding ventilator windows that were common on most British stock by then, up to the earliest BR mk2 stock, and the RTR offering does not feature this rebuilt type of window.  Also dating back to Airfix days is a Collett 60' bowended 'B' set.  B sets (a bit of a modellers' term for them, they were only called that in the Bristol Division) are a GW/WR speciality, two non-gangwayed brake composites permanently close coupled at the compartment ends with the brake ends 'outwards', and used on branch and main line stopping trains.

 

Other types, and there were plenty of them both previous to and during the period I've mentioned and lasting into your period, are available if you are prepared to build kits.  There are no GW/WR catering or sleeping vehicles other than BR mk1 for your period.

 

More locos than coaches in not an unusual situation for a modeller, Newbie 2020, in fact my current score is 16-12 to locomotives...  Main line trains of gangwayed stock were, for your steam/diesel transition period, mostly mk1s for the principal trains, with the named trains having rakes of BR's 1958 version of chocolate and cream livery, but stoppers and cross-country trains would feature Hawkworth and both types of Collett stock, often mixed.  Inter-regional trains were like this and a counterbalance working from the destination region would work a reciprocal service of whatever stock that region was using, so a good bit of variety is possible.  B sets were regarded as trains within themselves, and were usually (not always, but usually) run as such, and the Hornby Collett 57' bowended coaches ran in 4-coach sets marshalled BT/C/C/BT, sometimes two or even 3 sets to a train, in the London and the Birmingham divisions, but the sets were broken up in their later days a bit and running them individually under Rule 1 is fine.  Hornby produce them with different running numbers to provide for differnt sets.

 

Auto trains were operated by mechanical linkage beneath the coaches and the loco, with a degree of play having to be incorporated to allow for curvature and changes of gradient.  This meant that, as the regulator linkage moved the regulator in the loco cab when the driver moved the regulator lever in the trailer driving cab, significant amounts of control movement were lost in each coupling of the linkage between trailers and between trailers and locomotives.  Moreover the linkage was 'handed' so that the trailers could only be coupled to the loco with the linkage working, in 'auto' mode, facing with the driving cab away from the locomotive.  No more than 2 trailers could be coupled to an end of the locomotive as movement of the regulator aboard the locomotive was insufficient to drive the train, so trains could be seen with loco + 1 trailer attached either end of the loco, 2 trailers attached either end of the loco, 1 trailer attached bunker end and 1 smokebox end, 2 attached bunker or smokebox end and 1 at the other end, or 2 attached at each end, a 4-trailer 'sandwich'.

 

It's a big subject which I've only touched on, hope it is of some help!

 

 

Wow! Thankyou The Johnster! That reply was great - above and beyond!

2 minutes ago, Aire Head said:

 

Well that all helps.

 

Where do you want to start what types of trains do you want to run? 

I wan to be able to run most things from branch line to express. with some ;light freight but thats another story!

1 minute ago, Aire Head said:

So at a stab sound like your looking at the early 1960s?

 

What sort of formations/trains are you looking at information for? Are you wanting to source only from RTR (I'm guessing at 4mm?) Or are you willing to kitbuild?

 

It may seem like a lot of question but it all helps people give you the best information 

Yes 50's to 60's (although there will be the odd 'non era' interloper as well!!), 4mm and leaning to RTR at the moment as I've got my work cut out rebuilding Lyneworth from scratch!

But want to learn generally about them too!

GWR/BR late steam early diesel but interested to find out more generally really.

Hi,

Since starting Lyneworth I've built up a number of Locos and the knowledge that goes with them. I am now in the position where I have more locos than coaches! Therefore I need to build up my coaching stock!

My question is, does anyone know of a good book or other resource where I can find out more about the different types and usages?

Cheers

Clive

Thanks guys, Most locos are DCC Sound and I can't envisage operating more than 4 locos at any one time. Although there may be another couple standing. I'll have to see what current they are drawing and do some sums!

Cheers

Clive

Hi All,

As I embark on the re development of Lyneworth and Millhampton I'm wondering about whether I need to use boosters due to the larger size of  the layout. I'm using a Digitrax DCS 210+ Command station, OO Gauge with streamline Code 100 track. Ive estimated that overall there is about 35m of actual track (I'm sure @Harlequin will correct me if I'm far out on this!). Will the single DCS 210+ be enough for this or should I look at putting boosters in. I am looking at setting up several power districts so adding a booster wouldn't be a huge problem if it is necessary.

Thoughts?

Clive

Hi Everyone,

Been a bit tied up with family stuff but the decision has now been made. I'm going to go ahead and "attempt" Harlequins two level idea.

The shed arrives next week so I can clear the garage out and then work will start in earnest. I'll keep everyone updated with pics and stuff as I go along, I'll probably start a fresh thread for it as soon as I get going!

Thanks everyone for their input so far, feels like a real communal layout already!

Clive

16 hours ago, Harlequin said:

@Newbie2020 Hi Clive, I’d like to add my suggested plan above to my track plans album. OK? I can change the station names if you’d like to keep them for yourself.

 

@davidparker172 It sounds like you’ve got a very usable space to make a layout that meets your particular needs, which will be different from anyone else’s in the world. Even a slightly different door position might require a radically different design.

 

Absolutely fine by me Phil. I'm having to put all on a back burner for a bit due to eldderly parent problems, but hope to be back "on track" soon.

Clive

11 hours ago, Harlequin said:

Just to push the through-station + fiddle-yard + BLT concept to a conclusion and to show that it could be a nice workable design for someone, if not you Clive, here's where I got to with my idea.

 

This is the main level:

At Lyneworth I added carriage sidings, laid out the MPD and increased the length of the headshunt.

The fiddle yard loops have been joggled to clear the support posts for Millhampton and an extra crossover added to get branch traffic onto the inner through line as directly as possible, leaving the loops purely for storage.

Simple lifting flap across the doorway with straight track joints - easy to build.

 

And then the high level, terminating at something like 170mm above the main level:

The branch line climbs behind Lyneworth @ 1 in 50, separated by a retaining wall which becomes a viaduct and crosses over the main line (always fun to see one train running above another).

It spans the doorway on another lifting flap, also with straight track joints. The angle allows the curve into Millhampton to be more open than the 2nd and 3rd radius curves nearby on the main level.

Millhampton is your classic BLT but in the steam transition era the engine shed and/or the goods shed have been sold off and are now occupied by local businesses, such as perhaps a brewery.

 

Millhampton leaves the bulk of the fiddle yard open for access and the covered parts are easily within reach.

 

If you add minimal viaduct-top detail to the branch line flap and a simple sky backscene around the room behind it, it could look very effective and give you scenery all round the room.

 

Wow! That's impressive! That would definitely stretch my skills but it's very tempting. I was struggling a bit to get where you were going with this - but I can see it clearly now.

This needs thought!

Clive

11 hours ago, Zomboid said:

The viability of a peninsula really depends on the size and mobility of the OP. I've essentially sketched 5' of track width in the 8' space, and whilst boards can be tapered to increase the gaps in some places, there's still only 8' to use. I only imagined the bottom gap to be emergency access to the loops so it could be narrow, but it may still not work...

Average size, mobility fine (mostly lol)

4 hours ago, Harlequin said:

Is there enough room to move around the peninsula terminus? Can it be supported with enough strength that it won't get knocked off level and the tracks possibly disconnected?

 

I've run this by my joiner friend and he says it's not a problem to make it stable and secure.

Room wise, I think there should be but it will restrict a little the depth of the baseboards around Lyneworth station itself.

4 hours ago, Rivercider said:

I presume this is to help with the planning of your proposed Lyneworth layout?

I have been following the Lyneworth Phase 2 thread, and I think the various posts have contributed to the layout looking much more 'railway like'.

Is there a particular place or part of the railway network you are trying to recreate? Sometimes there are prototype stations or depots that lend themselves to being used for inspiration in model form.

 

cheers

Hi

Yes it is. Harlequin and Chimer are setting me straight on a lot of things, and I now want to understand more of where they are coming, and the reasons why certain things are a certain way.

Clive

2 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

Hi Clive

And are you looking at branch, main line or yard operation and predominately passenger or goods or both?

A combination of a roundy double mainliner and an A to B Branch mainly passenger with a small goods area

5 hours ago, Chimer said:

 

We're thinking very similarly it seems.  For me there is much more point to the branch if it serves the MPD and carriage sidings - not sure it needs to be double track though.  The peninsula idea avoids the unlikely proximity of Millhampton to the main line, and I would suggest the loops section along the bottom wall is left in the open and sceniced - masquerading as  a section of 4-track main line, albeit with parked trains.  I suspect Clive would prefer 4 platforms at Lyneworth, though that would squeeze the space for the goods yard / brewery sidings, and I think the trailing crossovers there need to be at the outer edges of the station limits to allow trains to reverse and cross to the other line.  My first attempt to give Lyneworth 4 platforms ran out of space (in 18 feet!!!) but I might have another play incorporating the peninsula idea, if @Zomboid will waive copyright ......

Agree. This is certainly going more towards my original vision modified to reality!

Clive

35 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

Here's my suggestion. Not wholly original, but should have good scope for loco changes, taking restaurant cars out, that kind of thing.

 

I'm imagining the terminus on a bit of a peninsula, so you can get a little access round the back to the loops (you can park 2 trains whilst a third circulates on each track, if you so wish, or stack 3 per circuit). I know nothing at all of MPDs so no details there...

 

Hadn't thought about a peninsular, but very doable!

3 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

Hi Clive 

There are a good number of books on this subject but it really depends a lot on what era and type of situation you're modelling. Give us some idea of that and we can probably offer some more relevant suggestions. It will also affect the design of the layout and it's worth noting that a lot of the designs offered in layout books are not particularly prototypical.  

Hi David,

Predominantly late stema early diesel - but with the inevitable "non-era" intruders!!

Clive

3 hours ago, Gopher said:

Bob Essery was the author of a series of books, Railway Operation for the Modeller being one of them.  There was also Passenger Train Operation for the Railway Modeller and Freight Train Operation for the Railway Modeller.  I think you can still get them  on the second hand book sites.  They are quite detailed books. 

Brilliant! That sounds like just what I need!

Thankyou

Hi all,

As a Newbie planning a layout I keep coming across problems as I'm not sure on the way railways work. The ways trains run, timetables slip directions etc.

Does anyone know of a book that covers this type of info?

Cheers

Clive

21 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Storage loops on the lifting section seems to be a contradiction in terms...

 

You can't store anything there when you want to lift the section to get in or out.

 

Didnt think that one through!!!!!!

A little reworking!

Back to a BLT but now with 2 platforms and facility for a loco to run around to take a train back to Lyneworth. 

Branch line starts at platform 1 and runs around the outside now splitting before rising to Millhampton.

Storage loops (I know they look a bit wobbly!) down the left side, with  minimal scenic (as thats the lift up section)

Plenty of space at Lyneworth, platform 2, 3 and 4 for rotating locos and shunting ECS to and from the carriage storage sidings.

MPD and sidings need more work but starting to look like my vision.

Clive