Newbie2020

Playing around with the current Lyneworth tonight and have had real fun with swapping locos around (Deltic and Class 40 tonight)  so I think that this is the way I'd want to go as @Chimer@Zomboid suggested. The small goods/industrial will enable the same with freight trains. So I think small minimally scenic fiddle yard or off scene one may be useful operationally as well.

Learning so much (albeit slowly!) thanks to every ones much appreciated input (and patience!).

Like how you need 6 hands when you have 2 locos running and need to change points and, of course, not forgetting to change them back! Only 2 derailments - no casualties!

Clive

13 minutes ago, RobinofLoxley said:

stock can always be stored in a chest of drawers fitted out for the purpose, or if the layout permits, on slide-outs underneath it. As long as they close fairly dust tight.

Was just watching a Youtube with a guy that has used plastic boxes with lids, looks simple and sensible.

1 hour ago, KingEdwardII said:

I think the issues of a) damp and b) dust are going to be significant concerns for a garage layout. Pretty well nothing on a model railway layout likes dampness. Dust is hard to remove from scenic areas and it isn't friendly to anything that moves. I think that you need to concentrate efforts on fitting out a garage to deal with these two factors. Good insulation, thorough draftproofing and a source of heat in the winter are all part of the solution. What to do about the main garage door is a significant question, since these are usually poorly insulated and are as windproof as a sieve.

 

Yours,  Mike.

As I'm starting the layout again from scratch, I'm going to use isulation board on the walls. The main garage door is pretty well sealed against wind with this new electronic door, probably not 100% but pretty close.

Clive

Thanks everyone! Your efforts are really appreciated, this is where your experience shows !

Sadly I can see the benefits of both of these and think that's making it more confusing still.

The problem with two levels at the gate section is mainly about my competence in constructing the necessary gate there, as @RobinofLoxley says a lift up section wouldn't work. I've just watched a couple of YouTubes on gates, however, and they don't look quite as scary as I thought - more consultation with my joiner friend required!

Fiddle yard, I really need to look more at this in an operational way (this is where shows, or clubs that are open would come in handy! Damn Covid!!)

As the layout is in the garage, is it sensible to be keeping locos out there all the time? I am thinking climate here as the garage can get quite cold in winter and quite worm in summer? Happy to put some sort of heating in during very cold weather and new "almost sealed" electronic door has reduced the effect of drafts tremendously. Not too worried security wise as both doors have security locks and there is an alarm sensor in there too. Currently, after running locos I return them to there boxes and bring them in.

If this is the best way to do it then perhaps too many lanes of fiddle yard are not needed?

On the other hand it would make operation a lot easier day to day! (Sounding very much like a LibDem now  - this fence is uncomfortable! (No offence intended, other political parties are available!).

Thinking through, what I want is good opportunity to model both rail related scenery and countryside (think I'm going to struggle to fit my canal in lol) and some interesting but not too complicated operations.

@Zomboidmade a good point that struck me, about the larger station where I can operate locos with changes etc and move ECS around.

#confused.com

Clive

1 hour ago, Chimer said:

Progress to date - that's it for the night!

 

That looks very interesting! 

15 minutes ago, Chimer said:

 

Thanks for the dimensions - it might be a day or two ....

No rush at all! Thanks

1 hour ago, Chimer said:

I've got a thought that involves the MPD and carriage sidings being at Millhampton (because there wasn't room at Lyneworth) with a passenger shuttle from Lyneworth thrown in as an afterthought, originally mostly for railway workers' use.  So most traffic on the Millhampton branch would be ECS and light engine workings as required for trains terminating/reversing at Lyneworth.    Millhampton a couple of inches lower than Lyneworth with the main line passing behind Millhampton station on an embankment.  And with a couple of storage loops on one of the short sides (probably the left).

 

But before I try to develop this, can you tell me exactly where the access door is, and how wide it is, please?  And is 18' x 8' the correct measurement for the space?  Size does matter .... 

Sounds intruiging!

3 hours ago, ITG said:

Something mentioned earlier in this thread, but not really progressed, is the idea of some storage loops on the main line. Without them the majority of traffic is simply round and round, with nowhere to go to, or come from. All trains will be on show constantly.

Re the branch station, my preference would be a terminus but with a siding or two, or loop, to allow more interesting and varied branch traffic (both passenger and goods).

My only problem with that is where to fit it in! I thought about poutting some storage loops behind a scenic break on the right hand side? maybe this would hide the unrealistically steep incline the branch line would need to clear the tunnels?

Clive

52 minutes ago, RobinofLoxley said:

I also think that the branch line that is just a loop on a different level is wrong - you had it right the first time, but why dont you look at running it anticlockwise away from Lyneworth and ending the track somewhere past Millhampton. This gets round the gradient problem. You would have to play with the main station layout but not too much, taking the opportunity to lose the reverse curves on the left at the same time.

I did think about this and the problem would be that down the left side is the liftup/gate section and I think this would be very tricky with any sort of gradient involved.

1 hour ago, Harlequin said:

Yep, agree but perhaps Clive doesn't want a fiddle yard.

 

Having said that, two of the other issues that Chimer mentions, turning locos and somewhere for freight to come from and go to when not in the goods yard, would also benefit from a fiddle yard. Locos can be turned simply by picking them up and turning them around, by hand or using a "locolift" or cassette - you don't need a turntable, which can be quite difficult to fit in.

 

The latest design seems to include gradients on the branch for no real reason now - and they will still be quite steep. The elevation of "Milhampton halt" will visually separate it from the track in front, which is good, but because the tracks are so close on plan the branch will probably need a retaining wall all the way around the room, which might look odd. And there's no need to reach 120mm elevation - except to make the landscape around the tunnel work.

 

Clive, where is the door into the space?

 

A fiddle yard is something I could use but just struggling to fit it all in!

The gradient was original there to visually seperate Millhampton Halt from the TMD below. As I pushed the branch line further back it made the elevation more tricky and to some extent, you're right, it became dictated by having to clear the tunnels.

The door is on the left side slightly closer to the top so there is minimal room in the top left corner, and the liftup/gate section will need to be on that left side.

1 hour ago, Zomboid said:

In its current form I don't think the branch does much. I probably wouldn't bother with a branch at all, you could just put a very simple second station/ halt near the carriage sidings. Have the main station act as a double ended terminus for the trains that call there.

 

Alternatively take it to a terminus, but perhaps an imaginary one inside the tunnel. That then at least gives the illusion of the branch going somewhere different.

 

To be operationally interesting the main station needs to be somewhere trains terminate from both ends.

 

Are you doing steam or diesel/ electric era? (You mention a Bachmann 150, so presumably we're talking post 1985?).

Late steam/early diesel but with a lot of "Artistic Licence" !! The class 150 is a nod to the trians I used to work some years ago. The Branch line was  essentially somewhere for the Class 150 to be whilst being "slightly separate from" the rest of the layout (Thats probably upset a lot of prototypical modellers!!) .

31 minutes ago, Chimer said:

For instance, you can use a pilot to take a rake of empty coaches from the carriage sidings via the right-hand side of the layout to Lyneworth (platform 3, counting from the top).  Then the train loco runs light engine from the depot tender first (assuming a steam loco), connects to the right-hand end of the rake, and takes it away over the crossover to the outside (clockwise) main line.  Bit trickier returning empty stock to the sidings, as you don't want a loco trapped against the carriage siding buffers, the easy way would be via the left-hand side of the layout but you might think that was cheating.

 

Any big tender engines are pretty much condemned to run only clockwise or only anti-clockwise unless you add a turntable (obviously, not an issue if you're diesel/electric only).

 

Freight ops are pretty minimal, you'll just have a freight sitting in the non-platform loop at Lyneworth, coming out occasionally to do a few laps before a bit of shunting to vary the makeup of the train before the next turn.  The shunting would be more interesting with more sidings and specific places (e.g. coal staithes, goods shed) where you had to put specific types of wagons when not in the train.

 

I thought Millhampton was more interesting as a terminus (though I'd want more than the single platform), but obviously missed you changing your mind about that!

Ahh that makes sense!

I did consider, am considering a turntable - could possibly go in between the ECS sidings and the TMD?

I keep looking at Millhampton and can't decide lol, sometimes I like the idea of a through station to open up to more varied traffic , but I agree a terminus with commuter shuttle is what I really liked the idea of!

46 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

That's not such a problem, you just need to provide facilities at the station to allow an ECS move from the sidings to reverse and run the other direction.

 

The same applies for ECS moves from the station to the sidings.

Sort of like a long headshunt???

Already thought of a possible problem with this. Locos picking up carriages from the storage sidings would always be facing the same direction? (one of the advantages of running it in TrainPlayer!!) How could I arrange this some some would be forward facing on the up and some forward facing on the down?

Clive

@Harlequin@Chimer@RobinofLoxley@Smardale@DavidB-AU

Well that's nearly a whole Sunday used up!

The latest plan (Version 2.4)

So the Branch Line returns but set at the back now, still slowly rising to go over the tunnels in the bottom left then on to Millhampton Station This is at about 120mm above base level. this then drops and goes around back to Lyneworth.

Top right is The Brewery and sidings and down the rigtht side will give space for scenic work including Lyneworth Archery Club!

Main up and down lines go around from Lyneworth and at the bottom are the MPD/TMD and refuelling station, with diesel and coal and water, which also has access to the storage sidings for the carriages.

All thoughts and comments welcome!!

Clive

1 hour ago, RobinofLoxley said:

I hope i didnt come across as too critical but I have noticed on a few occasions that Anyrail as an application works like a magnet for track - you just fit in more and more, regardless of whether it will be functional.

 

there is a software called trainplayer that is available as a demo version, and you can import an anyrail file into it or build a layout in it (more difficult). Once you have done that you can run trains round the layout and see what happens (or doesn't). I found it helpful, personally.

Well TrainPlayer is fun!! Maybe I don't need to build a layout after all !!!! LOL

37 minutes ago, RobinofLoxley said:

I hope i didnt come across as too critical but I have noticed on a few occasions that Anyrail as an application works like a magnet for track - you just fit in more and more, regardless of whether it will be functional.

 

there is a software called trainplayer that is available as a demo version, and you can import an anyrail file into it or build a layout in it (more difficult). Once you have done that you can run trains round the layout and see what happens (or doesn't). I found it helpful, personally.

interesting! I'll try it out

1 hour ago, RobinofLoxley said:

The important thing about drafting a layout in anyrail is not how precise the rendering is but to use it to design the structure. Then you have a drawing you can use to determine how you will operate it. You can post it so others can see any snags, as you have done. In the latest version its hard to see what your intentions are. The branch line which was imho  a good original feature doesnt exist any more. I cant understand what you will use the TMD for, how you will get locos into train hauling positions from the TMD. The first plan was better by a long shot.

 

Just suppose the operating day starts with a loco in the TMD and coaches in a rolling stock siding. Look how many movements are needed to pick up the rake of coaches. Then how do you get it onto the outer, clockwise loop? (Loco first)

Hmmmm

Think I'm trying to "get things in " without the thought on the operation. Thats where my inexperience is obviously showing

Still a work in progress!!

Clive

I have access to a very competent joiner/carpenter (Luckily!!). I'm recovering form back surgery so mobility is not too good. The gap neds to span the door gap which is 950mm

9 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

 

Your choice also depends on how may tracks will cross, how wide the gap needs to be, how flexible you are (can you duck under at all?) as well as your carpentry skills (or access to such skills).

Neither is perfect, both have advantages.  Other options include a completely removable section.

 

An example of a lifting flap - Mid-Cornwall Lines 1950s 

 

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/94350-mid-cornwall-lines-1950s-western-region-in-00/&do=findComment&comment=1993983

 

The latest version of Lyneworth will mean the track going in front of the garage access door. Therefore I need either a lift up flap or a swing bridge to enable this.

Anyone got any experience of, or preference for, either or both of these?

Cheers

Clive 

On 08/09/2021 at 01:28, Smardale said:

Let me see if I can help! It's late so if this makes no sense then I'm sorry! 

Also I have no idea how computer literate you are! So please don't be offended if you already know about keyboard shortcuts.

So this is how I do corners with flex track. Drag a piece into your project then move the little plus arrows. This will alter the angle at the end of the section. Click them with the left mouse button, and then drag them around - whilst still holding the left mouse button down.



You can right click the flexi rail and select 'cut flex here' to alter the length. OR you can drag the end of the pieces by clicking and holding them much like with the plus icons. Up to you!



Once you're happy with the radius of your track then make sure it's highlighted and then on the top bar click 'Smooth flex' first (optional - but it does a good job!) and then click add parallel flex. Type in the distance you require.  


Now that you've got a double track curve, highlight one of the track pieces and then press 'CTRL' and 'C' on your keyboard at the same time. This will copy the track. Then press 'CTRL' and 'V' on your keyboard at the same time. This will duplicate (paste) the piece of track you have selected.

(Another handy shortcut is 'CTRL' and 'Z' which undos the last thing that you did. Handy if you can't see the tiny track icons and you've dragged the wrong piece into your project. Hit CTRL & Z and it vanishes. Easy!)



Drag and 'Snap' the new track piece onto the bottom of your bend and then adjust as you see fit using the +.



Highlight the newest track piece - click 'smooth flex' first (if you want) and then 'Add parallel flex' as before. Then all you need to do is to snap the new curve that you've just created below the top piece as shown below.



That's how I do it anyway! Alternatively you could create a huge curve (far too long for any piece of flexi track), duplicate it using the 'add parallel track' option and then right click in turn on both pieces and select 'cut flex here' from the drop down menu to create reasonable lengths. It's quicker but I like using the maximum length of flex track possible - especially as it's always a struggle to keep under AnyRail's 50 piece free limit! 



I hope that helped!

- James

James, Thanks for this it has definitley helped!! Still not an expert but the latest attempts look a lot better.

Cheers

Clive

Version 2.3 !

Ok, It's late and still not tried to change the branch line to the background but few other changes made!

3 hours ago, Titanius Anglesmith said:

Not sure where you’re going with this, but I thought I’d point out the situation at my local station in case it is relevant. 
 

There was a brewery built alongside the goods yard that was entirely on private land, but the stores building was up against the boundary of the yard. A dedicated siding was then built in the goods yard alongside the stores building, but entirely on railway land. So it was a public siding in reality, but possibly worked a bit like a private siding. 

Nice idea! Who doesn't love a brewery!!!

Clive

2 hours ago, Harlequin said:

The tracks crossing the doorway would thus be on two levels and so a gate type opening would be a better way to carry them. This type of movable section is more common in the States and Oz than here in the UK but it is fairly easy to make.

 

Had to google this!! A gate may be beyond my joinery skills, but I have a friend who may have the necessary skills! I'll have a chat with him. Not sure about a big helix, but maybe I could run the branch line back to Lyneworth around the left side? This would allow more variation and other locos to use the branch line (I hate to see steam pushing rather than pulling!)

The Micro Brewery idea is sounding very good - who doesn't like a beer whilst modelling!

Absolutely no reason why the TMD can't be at Lyneworth .

Clive