Commoner

I have just purchased a number of negatives featuring the work of railway photographer John Vaughan. The attached scan is captioned Witham 25.07.81. The date is incorrect as by this time the leading power car from 253 012 had an exhaust cowling fitted. My hunch is this photo was taken on 29.09.79 as JV had a photographic expedition to the eastern end of the Berks and Hants line on this date. At the time HST working was limited to two up and down workings a day, and one of the up workings was formed by HST set 253 028 with 43024 from 253 012 replacing 43125 on 29.09.79. The question is where is the shot taken? There is no station at Witham just east of Castle Cary. I wondered if any of the RMWeb contingent with a more intimate knowledge of the B and H could name the location please.

Goodness me Jack, I think that your shots are pretty impressive if you were using your camera atop a pole at 7.5m. Be careful though with those power lines in the background. Thanks for posting. Kevin (Commoner)

Thanks for replying Geoff.

Thanks 37114. I think Geoff has been in touch with me previously but didn't have anything going back as far the period I am interested in. However, if he is around, perhaps he can confirm. Thanks for the suggestion.

Apologies for "bumping" this topic, but I wondered a year on, whether any RMWeb members, new or old, might be able to add new information in response to my original post. I appreciate the information I am seeking is scarce, but any help or new contributions would be much appreciated. PM me if you need further information. Thanks Kevin (Commoner)

In terms of 2+9 formations this was a temporary arrangement that operated in the May 1980 and June 1981 summer timetables. The lengthening of some formations was facilitated by the loan of WR TS vehicles that had been displaced by newly delivered TGS vehicles from April 1980 onwards. By July 1980, 42091/3/6/7/9, 42101-110 were all on temporary loan to the ER/ScR. These vehicles were destined to be formed in NE/SW sets, and slowly returned to the WR over the course of 1981. An amendment to the ECML HST diagrams operative from 12/5/80 show that 6 sets were booked to be formed as 2+9 formations. They were confined to operation on the Anglo-Scotish route and had no booked workings to Leeds. The actual workings are show below with their allocated depot turn numbers. BN 104 (TRUK+TRSB) M-S, 10.00 KX-Ed/16.15 Ed-KX, SUN 10.00 KX-Ed/17.15 Ed-KX EC 102 (TRUK+TRSB) M-F, 08.00 KX-Ed/14.15 Ed-KX, SO KX 07.32-Ed/13.25 Ed-KX, SUN forms EC113, 17.00 Kx-Ed (forms EC113 Mon) EC 113 (TRUK+TRSB) M-F, 10.15 Ed-KX/16.00 KX-Ed, SO Ed 09.15-KX/15.00 ABDN, SUN forms EC 102, 12.10 Abdn-KX (forms EC 102 Mon) EC 112 (TRUK+TRSB) M-F, 09.15 Ed-KX/15.00 KX-ABDN (forms EC 114 M-F), SO 08.35 ABDN-KX, SUN 11.00 KX-ABDN (forms EC 114 Mon) EC 114 (TRUK+TRSB) 08.35 ABDN-KX/17.00-Ed (forms 112 M-F), SO 10.15 Ed-KX/16.00 KX-Ncl, SUN 08.15 Ncl-KX/14.00 KX-Ed (forms EC 112 Mon) HT 129 (TRUB) M-S, 08.30 Ncl-KX/13.35 KX-Ncl, SUN spare at Heaton After 1981 I believe that any 2+9 formations (apart from the Pullman sets) were ad-hoc arrangements. As mentioned by other contributors there just wasn't the spare TS vehicles to go round in the mid-1980s. Similarly, the ER diagrams through the mid-1980s make no mention of 2+9 sets.

In the 1990 timetable the 12.40 Penzance-Paddington was booked ecs to OOC at 18.43. The stock for the 18.50 departure was formed of a rake fresh from OOC arriving Paddington 18.20. I don't have the loco diagrams, but I wonder if the 7 minutes between the time the stock of the 12.15 Penzance left and 18.50 departed was enough for the loco off the Penzance to drop on to the Oxford stock, attach and do the necessary prep before departure. In 1991 the Monday-Thursday working was the same, except on Fridays when the Penzance service did form the 18.50 departure. Obviously on Fridays there was no possibility of the loco off the Penzance working the 18.50 as it was trapped on the blocks. All workings were load 7, MkII EHA stock. Hope this helps.

During my time working at the Station Manager's Office Paddington 86-88, there was a staff bus service which ran between Padd and OOC, from memory every hour. On some occasions if it wasn't running, or it had been disrupted, the service would be replaced by a loco. In that event we would get a call from the platform supervisor informing us that the Loco was in their platform and a staff announcement would be made advising train crew of it's availability... 'staff announcement, staff announcement for train crew travelling to Old Oak Common, the LocoBus is on platform 1A'.

Thanks for the clarification. I think my error had been pointed out previously and I couldn't resolve it from what I had erroneously recorded in my notebook.

ER PCs 43062/63 were loaned to the WR at OOC and SPM respectively 01/78-06/78. They were preceded by 43060/61 with 41059/71, 40029 which were loaned 09/77-02/78 and combined with other WR vehicles, initially 42092/108/9/10 were used to form a 28th set. 40029 remained on the WR until 04/78. These loans were followed by a complete set with power cars 43095/99 which was allocated to OOC 09/78-12/78.

Brilliant Richard. Thanks for posting. Kevin

Many thanks for posting the above observations Richard. Just the sort of detail I am looking for. I have sent you a PM. Regards Kevin (Commoner)

Over 10 years ago I placed a request on RMWeb for details of WR HST formations observed during 1976/77/78. The thread used to be available on the old RMWeb archive but is now long gone. Many regular contributors responded positively back in 2008/9. 10 years on my effort to document the day to day operation and formation of the fleet continues. I wondered if any new members might have relevant information they might be able to share with me. Apologies for this request not being directly related to modelling but I know that back in the day many modellers were observers of the contemporary railway scene. Ideally I prefer observations that detail full formations (power cars and trailers), accurately dated. Any other information such as location, service working, if available would be welcome. In the absence of full formations, observations of power car pairings or even sets identified by Class 253 unit number can be helpful. Any observation of vehicles, formations observed on depot visits are also very useful. I am not in need of lists of booked formations reproduced in RCTS, Platform 5 or Ian Allan stock books as my interest is in the actual day to day make up of the HST fleet during the first years of HST operation. I appreciate this is perhaps an unusual request. I have been fortunate in receiving a great deal of help from many individuals over the years, but my records contain many gaps, conflicts and anomalies. I know that it can take time to trawl through old notebooks and collate the relevant detail but any help would be much appreciated. I am willing to negotiate payment or make charitable donations if required for information received. I can obviously be contacted by PM (Private Message) on RMWeb and can provide an email address if that will make correspondence easier. Thanks. Kevin Daniel (Commoner)

Great photos as ever Trevor. Particularly like the black and white shots from 1978 at York. My understanding is that the rain strips as I call them were to stop water ingress in to the cab control desk electronics. I could be wrong, I can't remember where I read that. Perhaps they served a dual purpose. At WR terminal stations there were no ladders such as those used at Kings Cross. At Paddington it was a bucket and a mop with a long handle! Another modification that sometimes escapes people's attention is the addition of the thin orange warning strip applied around the base of the cab roof. These started to appear on the ER from late 1978 and were a warning to staff to be careful of overhead live wires. The WR started to apply them retrospectively from August 1979, although the build for the west of England services (43125-152 and 43124 spare) delivered from June 1979 onwards had them from new.

Hi Trevor, there is no central database that I am aware of detailing HST workings and formation changes. My interest is mainly early WR and ER operation and thanks to the generosity of various people who have shared their data over the years, I have fairly extensive records for the WR up to the end of 1981 and ER 1977-79. Having said that I have numerous gaps, anomalies and conflicts to resolve. Am always happy to address a query and enjoy doing a bit of research. Frustratingly, I haven't collated my ER notes from 1980 onwards as that might have led to us to a clearer time period or an actual date for your shot of 254 023. In regard to that I forgot to add that 43101 received the rain strip below the windscreen mod at overhaul in March 1981. These were fitted experimentally to a 3 WR power cars in 1978 and to the power cars of 254 016 in 1978/79 before being becoming standard fit from early 1981 onwards. Look forward to more of your HST shots. Kevin (Commoner)

That's ok Trevor. We can narrow it down a bit further perhaps. Smoke deflectors fitted at first overhaul in October 79. With the other bits of info above, I would suggest it's summer/autumn 1980.

Maybe able to a do a bit more research on this tomorrow, but it's post May 1980 as it was from the commencement of that year's summer timetable that the ER/ScR started marshalling the sets with twin catering vehicles back to back in the formation. In this case the TRUK seems to be paired with a TRUB rather than the more usual TRSB. 43101 according to my notes still carried it's unit number as of 13.05.1981 but it had gone by 19.06.1981. Need to find out exactly when it acquired its exhaust cowling. I'll update tomorrow.

The last shot is of power car 43151. Only 5 PCs were finished in the experimental version of Executive livery. The others, 43125/6/9/30 carried their set numbers 253 028 and 253 030. Nice shots.

Sorry Trevor. Well spotted. 43006 carried set number 253 003 and was paired with 43047. Interesting in regard to your shot of the set on it's return through Reading. The 15.43 Swansea-Paddington was due Paddington at 18.38. There was no booked HST departure from Paddington between 18.38 and 43006/47's booked return on 19.15 Paddington-Swansea. In the summer 1977 timetable the 18.45 Paddington-Cardiff was loco-hauled. Even if the set had been turned round immediately, it would have struggled to make it to Reading by 18.56. I wondered whether it was a different set with power car 43007 (253 003) leading but that power car had black infill to the IC125 lettering and an enlargement of your shot shows this example to have blue lettering. Mystery!

Have often wondered whether you had any early WR HST shots Trevor. Do you have any more from your trip on 8th June 1977? I have some observations from that date which will confirm the identities of the power cars you travelled with and photographed. The 16.54 Chippenham-Swindon was the 16.30 Bristol TM-Paddington service worked by trailer set 253 011 but with power cars 43046 (253 023) and 43014 (253 007). The full formation was 43046/14, 41023/24, 40011, 42033/34/35/70. The 17.42 Swindon-Reading was the 15.43 Swansea-Paddington worked by trailer set 253 003 with power cars 43047 (253 023) and 43006 (253 023). The full formation on this date was 43047/06, 41007/8, 40503, 42011, 40003, 42010/09. If the set had stuck to it's booked diagram you would have photographed it working the 19.15 Paddington-Swansea. There was plenty of swapping of power cars between sets during 1977 due the various technical difficulties that emerged as the fleet bedded in to service, although from observation it would appear Old Oak Common was more successful than St Philips Mrahs in keeping power cars to their correct sets. Until the TRUB 403xx vehicles were introduced in the spring of 1978, a number of WR sets were formed with a TRUK (405xx) and TRSB (400xx) catering cars. Indeed it wasn't until August 1978 that the last WR TRUK+TRSB sets disappeared. At the time of Trevor's photograph in June 1977, 253 002/3/4/5/6/7/8/9/10/12/15/16/17/19/20 were running as TRUK+TRSB sets. 253 011/13/14/18/21/22/24 were running with single TRSBs. 253 001 was in Works and 253 023/25/26/27 had not been formed up for passenger service. The Inter-City 125 lettering was applied to new trailer vehicles from July 1978 onwards and to overhauled vehicles from August 1978. Vehicles built before this on both the WR and ER/ScR carried Inter-City only. The first WR set to receive the revised lettering was 253 021 at overhaul in August 1978.

TRUKs 40501-10/12/15-17/19/20 delivered to WR and all saw service before transfer to the ER in the latter half of 1977 and through to September 1978. 40511/13/14/18 were delivered new to the ER in the spring of 1977.

Saturday 22nd April 1978. 253 026 formed W43053/52, 42079/80, 40026, 42078, 40517, 41053/54 passes Cardiff Canton with the 11.15 Paddington-Swansea. Photographer Unknown. Copyright K Daniel.

Saturday 22nd April 1978. 253 026 formed W43053/52, 42079/80, 40026, 42078, 40517, 41053/54 passes Cardiff Canton with the 11.15 Paddington-Swansea. Photographer Unknown. Copyright K Daniel.

I have rechecked my original notes from 20/09/81 and the transcription I made later, and unfortunately I can't resolve the anomaly. 48106 is clearly recorded which must be incorrect as this was a DVT which wouldn't have been marshalled in the middle of the train's consist. Like you I have now searched for other observations from the web along with photographs without success. I wonder if you had thought about requesting for a list of stock from the OD on this and other other forums. I am sure somebody out there will have noted the full formation. Apologies again for my error. Hope the missing bit of detail turns up.