Commoner

I attended the Open Day and recorded the APT formation as follows SC48107, 48201, 48106, 48503, 48607, 49002, 48601, 48101. I also recorded the HST formation which was W43174, E44068, W42108, 40012, 41165. Thanks Kevin

TGS vehicles started to find their way into ER formations from October 1980 onwards. The first diagrams for ER HST sets formed with a TRUB were introduced in October 1978. Higher up the thread you mentioned that some sets contained an additional TF and a respondent confirmed correctly that this occurred when dedicated Pullman sets were formed for the Yorkshire and Tyne-Tees Pullman services. However, following the delivery and introduction of TGS vehicles to the WR sets from April 1980 onwards a number of TS vehicles became spare. A few of these ex-WR vehicles were used to strengthen some ER sets to 2+9 formations over the summer period of 1980. These were usually TRUK+TRSB sets confined to out and back diagrams on the Anglo-Scottish services.

All power cars receiving overhauls by November 1986 were receiving Inter-City Executive Livery. From May 87 Swallow Livery was being applied.

In the summer of 1976 it was marhsalled in the following test formation to which the prototype HST power cars were allocated. The trails analysing the impact of high speed running on the P8 tyre profile ran from at least early June to mid-August 1976. The formation could be regularly observed running a long the WR main line at the time. 43001+975290+13438+12140+42014+42010+42011+42020+43000

Brilliant Eddie. Thanks for posting. 253 017 on 22/01/77 has 2 TRSBs, unlike 253 009 which was correctly formed with a TRUK+TRSB. The WR ran a few sets with 2 TRSBs as the delivery of TRUKs was delayed. Obviously as more sets were delivered the availability of surplus TRSBs diminished and by end of the winter 76, the formation became a rarity. An interesting vantage point for your photographs at Reading as well. Looks a murky day which didn't improve much judging from the shots taken later at Swindon. The shot of 254 001 at Bounds Green is also a rarity. Was practically brand new. Am I right in thinking you were on the flyover, or is my memory of the layout there playing tricks?

Yes, possibly a positioning move and perhaps not in use on 20.03.87, but can confirm it was on the next shot, with the saloon marhsalled next to the power car.. Hired by the English China Clay corporation to convey a delegation to Parliament on 04.03.87, formed in Set 28 with power cars 43138/017 passing West Ealing on the 05.07 Penzance-Paddington. It worked down on the previous night's Golden Hind. It was extremely unusual to find a 2+9 HST formation on the Western Region in those days and to get the photo it required an early start. Sadly the weather wasn't conducive, and it's not a great shot.

Here's 40513 while still carrying the original Inter-City Executive Saloon Branding. Reading 20.03.87 in Set 34 working the 15.00 Paddington-Swansea.

Two photos of 43053 from 1988/89 suggests that it perhaps was a one off. Maybe this was the result of a simple error on the part of the person applying the decals. 06.10.88 showing the right hand side with the double arrow symbol to the right of the Inter-City lettering. 11.03.89 Conforming to standard practice with the double arrow symbol to the left of the Inter-City lettering.

Yes of course Doncaster. Uploaded in rush. I will edit post Thanks for highlighting the error.

No Dave, there were quite a few. From observation it seemed that the "125" began to disappear on some ER power cars soon after the introduction of Swallow livery and the re-branding of Inter-City in 1987. I never observed a WR power car with the "125" removed. Here are two ER examples photographed at Doncaster on Monday 18th January 1988.

I have just had a look at my notes. 17th January 1987 43150/027, 41166, 40431, 42307/8/9/43, 44088 on the 07.00 Bradford-Paignton 30th January 1987 43150/018, 41166, 40431, 42307/8/9/43, 44088, (44081 locked out of use) 20.05 Paddington-Swansea 10th February 1987 43149/165, 41143/44, 40418, 42295/96/97, 44084 13.30 Paddington-Bristol TM Not conclusive, but seems more likely your shot of "253 040" on 8th February 1987 is probably 43150.

43149/150 were the allocated power cars to 253 040. Despite Peter K's observation of 43150 on a Cross-Country set on 03.05.87 (post 189), I don't think we can be sure that it would have stayed in situ from the date of your shot in February 87 Trevor. By1987 power cars were being swapped around fairly frequently, although it is not impossible that a PC would stay with one set for a prolonged period. I have fairly extensive notes of WR internal sets during 1987. I will see if I can locate 43150 in the period between February and May 87, but not until much later today. As far as set numbering goes, no, the unit numbers on power cars were not re-applied to match the new set, if it was different from its own. The unit numbering on WR executive painted power cars was a strange quirk, given that by the start of the fleet wide repainting programme in early 1985, the WR had followed the ER's example, and abandoned the practice of keeping power cars to their allocated sets.

Thursday 16th April 1981. 253 002 formed W43004/5, 44002, 42007/6/8, 40300, 41005/6 working the 08.25 Paddington-Plymouth runs non-stop through Bristol Temple Meads while 253 018 (43036/37, 44018, 42056/55/54, 40344, 41038/37) waits with the 08.20 Paddington-Weston-S-M.

43002 with full yellow ends a Bristol Temple Meads on Sunday 5th June 1988. Full formation 43002/12, 44003, 42011/10/262/009, 40213, 41008/7.

43002/3/4/5 were finished in Swallow with full yellow ends in 1988. Have never worked out why. Were they earmarked for buffer conversion, painted experimentally or was there a mix up with painting diagram? Here's 43005 at Bristol Temple Meads with a Penzance-Edinburgh cross-country working on Saturday 8th October 1988. Edit need to re-check as noticed the red marker lights are on, which would suggests this is not the PZ-Ed working. Will re-check my notes. Update - the date is correct, but I see in my notes I have recorded the working as Edinburgh-Penzance. Recall sets terminating in Platforms 3/4 at Temple Meads but rarely working through on this line. Formation on this date was 43132/005, 41159, 40403, 42286/90/94/98.

Friday 29th April 1983. The ecs from Old Oak arrived in the platform at 07.04, but the 07.40 Paddington-Plymouth is going to be a late departure formed of set 253 004 - 43009/8, 41009/10, 40351, 42014/13/12, 44004. Friday 29th April 1983. The 06.20 Weston-Paddington service arriving at its destination with 43023 deputising for 43043 in set 253 021, which on this date was formed 43023/42, 41043/44, 40337, 42063/64/65, 44021.

I too have always recorded full formations and spent many years trying to gather similar observations from the early days on the WR (76/77/78), to supplement my own, and to get the fullest picture possible of how the WR fleet was formed and utilised. Probably seems a bonkers pursuit, but early HST working was pretty much neglected by most enthusiasts and the railway press at the time. If anybody has any observations from that era, I would be interested to see them - I am happy to negotiate payment or make charitable donations in recognition of contributions received. An earlier appeal on old RMWeb can be found here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=34464. Please PM me if you can help or want me to expand. There is no doubt that detail you recorded Peter is of historical value for modellers and enthusiasts like me. Thanks for sharing it.

Oooops missed that one. W44020 on that date Peter. I'll edit the post

Monday 2nd November 1981. 253 020 formed 43040/121, 41041/2, 40017, 42060/61/62, 44020 at Bristol TM, waiting to work the 09.30 to Paddington.

43139 on the rear of the 16.55 Paddington-Weston-S-M on Saturday 1st June 1985.

Absolutely agree Peter. Trevor brilliantly captured the 254 sets at the start of the ECML HST era in 1978/79. The ER seemed to do a better job than the WR, in keeping their sets in sparkling condition. E43068 had been in traffic for 6 months or so by 1st June 78, the date of Trevor's shot and looks immaculate externally. Perhaps it was because the ER depots were better equipped? 43086/87, 42189/7, 41102, 42178, 41098 were on an Acceptance test run from Heaton Depot on 31.05.78, following delivery the week previous.

Exhaust Deflectors weren't fitted from new until the the very closing stages of the first Class 254 build in spring 79. Their retrospective fitting to power cars built without also started in the spring/summer of 1979 and was somewhat adhoc with certain power cars going through Works and leaving without receiving the mod. The programme of retro-fitting was completed in April 81 when 43052 was the last to be treated. Of course W43012/13 were the first to have them, fitted experimentally in October 1977, although W43012 lost its deflector after a fire in the exhaust area in May 1978. E43060 also gained the mod experimentally in November 1978.

3 shots of power cars painted experimentally in Executive Livery prior to its application fleet wide from early 1985 onwards. 43129 with solid Inter-City 125 lettering on Tuesday 12th June 1984 arriving at Reading with the 10.25 Bristol TM-Paddington formed 43129/151, 41126/5, 40324, 42260/61/59, 44030. 43126 with outline Inter-City 125 lettering, at Bristol TM having arrived with 14.30 from Paddington on Sunday 10th June 1984. Set formed, 43126/130, 44028, 42253/2/1, 40322, 41122/21. 43151 with outline Inter-City 125 lettering but no unit number, pictured at Reading working the 06.18 Penzance-Paddington. Set formed 43151/028, 41031/2, 40327, 42045/6/7, 44015. It's also worth noting how how the trailer livery on experimental and final versions varies, with the very light grey on the roof above above the class designation colour on the former, giving way to black on the final version.

That's a really interesting shot Peter. The power car has a rain strip below the windscreen and this mod wasn't fitted from new or at overhaul fleet wide until 1981. A couple of WR power cars acquired the mod at overhaul, presumably on an experimental basis in the autumn of 1978, these being W43046/48, while W43028 also received it during a collision damage repair in October 1978. Do you have an accurate date for the shot? If new, it would be sometime in May 78, or if following overhaul sometime in May/June 1979.

From my FB post a few weeks back on the same subject. Hope it is of interest. Kevin (Commoner) From May 1976 the prototype HST had no diagrammed passenger work. The power cars went to Derby RTC in to be married up with production trailers 42010/11/14/20, Mk3, 12140, Mk 2 13438 with Test Car 6, ADB975290 in preparation for test running to analyse the performance of the P8 tyre profile on the Mk3s. The test rake returned to the Old Oak Common and was in regular use along the WR main line from the beginning of June to at least mid-August 1976. The WR was short of production sets for the commencement of 125mph service operation from 04/10/76 necessitating the reformation of the prototype in mid-September 1976. From 04/10/76 it was diagrammed SX 08.00 Padd-Swan/12.00-Padd/16.00-Swan/20.00 Padd, SO 08.45 Padd-BTM/11.30 BTM-Padd/15.00 Padd-Swan/19.00 Swan-Padd. It was finally stood down in November 1976, by which time enough production sets were in hand to cover the diagrammed working. The last observation I have of it in traffic was 2/11/76. The set languished at OOC before briefly moving to S.P.Marsh in early February 1977. The power cars went to Derby Works mid-February 1977 while some of the trailers were stored at Worcester, pending conversion, with the remainder making their way to the RTC.