peach james

Well, after a nice lego related party yesterday, today I've been back at the fun of getting this to work. I had to add an additional section in the program, which is tied to the home signal (and the other one is tied to the section signal). Then, my small assistant and I have been running the DMU's through- 3-1-3, repeatedly. The only problem I have had is that my assistant can reach the telegraph key and has keyed it a few times . That, and Signalman Babbage is _very_ fast at returning the keypress in New Biggin- so fast, it's instant !. (since sorted, with a bit more delay put in place). It's amazing how fast it seems to be with "only" 15 seconds set right now of a delay between when the train passes New Biggin box (line clear sent to New Biggin) and when the train arrives at the distant for Long Marton. I may set that delay a bit longer to allow for inexperience too- I don't find it bad, but I could see it being fast. Again, as explained in real life, the signalman had something like 2.5 min at line speed to get it all done, but that just doesn't exist on my model.

I have 12 pages (4-6 shots/page) of photos of Long Marton taken in 1996 (no track in the yard, but it was fairly complete). Includes details of the station building & the goods shed, in particular. It is brick rather than stone though. (don't believe everything in Rails in the Fells...) If you get someone to etch windows, please post prior to ordering- I'd be quite happy to order a set as well. My attempts years ago at plastic were interesting, and involved LOTS of very small pieces of plastic. James

Late night fun (20-2330 hrs), has consisted of running a DMU on the above schedule, after temp. wiring in one key onto a spare input elsewhere, and then figuring out that the one set of "that won't move" things has- apparently, my 2.75 year old monster helper managed to break some 5 min epoxy that was supposed to hold a screw fixed to a block of wood. Said block of wood operates 3 microswitches, and I was kind of curious as to how come they weren't operating when I thought they should... I got as far as having the DMU leave New Biggin, and get to the home signal, at which point it all fell apart- I know why now, and hopefully, the fix will work. (basically, Appleby was not clearable until after the DMU passed the home signal...which it wouldn't because the signal was at danger...it proved a bit of the other work right though !) I'm not likely to get to try it tomorrow until later, as I have a cake to make, and then we (all 4 of us) are going out to my lego club's family xmas gathering at another members house. (it may be an Adult club, but we have a large amount of children between the active members...) I'll be happier when I have fitted up the new Tam Valley 3 position servo drivers and the mechanical interlocking locks, but I will get there eventually. This beats the original plan of using mechanical linked levers and electric locking for all of them ! (yes, I did consider it...at least it wasn't going to be air operated !) James

More bits ordered- and a general tidy up of the signal box instruments has ensued. Unfortunately, the Lego bits are now not going to be lego, but rather servo controlled bits, when the next stuff from Tam Valley arrive here. I'm not sure if I am going to try and get the system to work via a bunch of abuse of other stuff, or if I am just going to give up until the new bits arrive. I have a DS 64 with only 7 working inputs, and that's the one I am trying to use- for 8 inputs...(one of them is on order too...). Delivery over here is 8-10 days, not return of post. RRCoCommutatorDec2012 by Peach James, on Flickr (it's since been mirrored, to reverse the relative positions of the boxes, since they sit the other way around on the layout). The flagged line on the bottom is supposed to work, but I need the instruments to be able to make it work) James

From Stephen Rabone's website, I have the following list of passenger locos: 43022 4F (Ivatt) 43112 4F (Ivatt) 44701 Black 5 44727 Black 5 44746 Black 5 Caprotti/Roller Bearings 44753 Black 5 Caprotti/Roller Bearings 44804 Black 5 44817 Black 5 44854 Black 5 44859 Black 5 44861 Black 5 45012 Black 5 45022 Black 5 45081 Black 5 45118 Black 5 45122 Black 5 45279 Black 5 45458 Black 5 45562 Jubilee Alberta 45564 Jubilee New South Wales 45568 Jubilee Western Australia 45573 Jubilee Newfoundland 45597 Jubilee Barbados 45605 Jubilee Cyprus 45608 Jubilee Gilbert and Ellice Islands 45619 Jubilee Nigeria 45640 Jubilee Frobisher 45657 Jubilee Tyrwhitt 45658 Jubilee Keyes 45659 Jubilee Drake 45673 Jubilee Kepple 45688 Jubilee Polyphemus 45693 Jubilee Agamemnon 45714 Jubilee Revenge 45720 Jubilee Indomitable 45723 Jubilee Fearless 45724 Jubilee Warspite 45729 Jubilee Furious 45731 Jubilee Perseverance 45732 Jubilee Sansparell 45734 Jubilee Meteor 46109 Royal Scot Royal Engineer 46113 Royal Scot Cameronian 46117 Royal Scot Welsh Guardsman 46128 Royal Scot The Lovat Scouts 46130 Royal Scot The West Yorkshire Regiment 60038 A1 Firdaussi 60069 A3 Sceptre 60070 A3 Gladiateur 60072 A3 Sunstar 60077 A3 The White Knight 60080 A3 Dick Turpin 60082 A3 Neil Gow 60088 A1 Book Law 60089 A1 Felstead 60092 A1 Fairway 61198 B1 70014 7P6F Britannia Iron Duke 70044 7P6F Britannia Earl Haig 70053 7P6F Britannia Moray Firth 73101 Standard 5 Unnamed 73142 Standard 5 Unnamed 73168 Standard 5 Unnamed 73171 Standard 5 Unnamed I haven't gone through the goods trains or the register book, but would suspect that there would have been a few 8F's and 9F's in the list James

NORAD says he's currently over the UK. Of course, you have no Lightning F6's, or Blue Circle equipped (!) Tornado F3's left... Enjoy your christmas day, and hope he brought you all the best toys that you are wanting. (my boys are waiting, it being 1730 here...still time before they go to bed) James

Signalman Turing sends Call Attention (1 beat) to Signalman Powell at Long Marton. Powell responds with 1 beat (acknowledging call attention). Signalman Turing then sends the type of train (for instance, a DMU with 3-1-3), which Powell then repeats back. Powell, then turns his Commutator to Line Clear, which will allow the section signal (in front of the New Biggin box) to be cleared. Powell will send call attention to Signalman Bobby at Appleby. Then, when call attention is acknowledged, he will then signal the type of train on, and listen for the repeat back. The repeat back should be followed by the commutator for the “down” line being moved to Line Clear assuming Appleby can accept the train. When the "Line Clear" is set on the communtator, Powell can set his Section Signal to Clear. (otherwise, his Section Signal is locked at Danger) The train then passes the signalbox at New Biggin, Signalman Turing then sends “Train entering section” when the tail light of the train passes his section signal to Powell, who then turns the commutator to “Train On Line” Powell, then, will clear his home signal, his Section signal, and then he can clear his distant as well. If Appleby cannot accept the train, then the Section and Distant will be left ON, stopping the train at the section signal. The train would not have to slow as long as Powell was fast enough to get the acceptance from Bobby & clear his distant between when he accepted the train from Turing to when the train reaches his distant. (Dave, this is where the 5000 yds comes from- from New Biggin to Long Marton is 3 miles 726 yds, and the distant is 1150 yds from the box, according to Stations & Structures of the S&C...meaning about 2 1/2 minutes pass from the train passing New Biggin Section signal (327 yds from the box towards Long Marton) and arriving at the Long Marton distant) I do NOT have this distance on the layout...which is going to create fun and games of getting trains to 60-70 scale MPH in 12 ft or so...) The train arrives at the Long Marton Home signal, at which point Powell returns the Distant to caution (as the locomotive has passed the Distant) Once the locomotive has passed the Home signal, Powell returns the Home to Danger. When the train passes the section signal (590 yds past the home), he sets the Section signal back to Danger, and can clear his Commutator to Normal and accept another train. (Commutator is released by the track circuit which ends at the Section signal), and will send “Train entering Section” to Bobby, who will move his commutator to “train on line” At the end of this, Powell will have his commutator set to Normal, and his signals will be at Caution/Danger/Danger. All of this is going to happen over about a 5 minute spell if the train is at 60 MPH. Dave, is that closer to reality? (I'm glad for your input...)

Hi All the infinite wisdom of RM Web, I've watched the video ( http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/65635-br-signalling-practice-video/ ) and read a fair amount, but I want to make sure that what I am planning to do would comply with the rules. What I am looking to do is to make a sensible simulation of signal operation. I'm not going to be filling in logs, but the rest should be right. The following is a crude sketch of what I have, physically, on Long Marton, looking at it as a single track only going to the left. crude signalboxes by Peach James, on Flickr So, what I am expecting happens is: Train enters New Biggin station (starts from the storage yard), Signalman Turing sends Call Attention (1 beat) to Signalman Powell at Long Marton. Powell responds with 1 beat (acknowledging call attention). Signalman Turing then sends the type of train (for instance, a DMU with 3-1-3), which Powell then repeats back. (3-1-3) Powell, then turns his Commutator to Line Clear, which will allow the section signal (in front of the New Biggin box) to be cleared. The train then passes the section signal at New Biggin, Signalman Turing then sends “Train entering section” to Powell, who then turns the commutator to “Train On Line”. The detection locks the commutator at Train On Line when the train passes the Long Marton Distant. (to bypass is the 60 turns or so of the key lock, in the event of an emergency...so you have to KNOW you have turned it...) Powell, then, will clear his home signal, and send call attention (1) to Signalman Bobby at Appleby. Then, when call attention (1) is acknowledged, he will then signal the type of train on, (3-1-3) and listen for the repeat back (3-1-3). The repeat back should be followed by the commutator for the “down” line being moved to Line Clear (assuming it was at Normal before). The line clear would clear Powell's Section signal (for Powell to operate), and then he can clear his distant as well. The train would not have to slow as long as Powell was fast enough to get the acceptance from Bobby & clear his distant between when he accepted the train from Turing to when the train reaches his distant. (~5000 yds or so, or about 2.5 min @ 60 MPH) The train arrives in front of the Long Marton box, Powell pulling his signals to caution (distant) /stop (home) /stop(Station), moving them after the train has passed the signal. and will send “Train entering Section” to Bobby when the train passes his section signal, who will move his commutator to “train on line” When train on line is set by Bobby, Powell will then be free to clear his commutator to Turning back to Normal. (locked until then) At the end of this, Powell will have his commutator set to Normal to New Biggin, and all his signals will be at danger. Am I missing anything? Or clear as mud? I'm suspecting I have some mechanical alterations to make to my signalbox- I think I need two electric locks put on the tappets (not a great shock) for the two section signals, in order to operate correctly. It's the fun of creating what was (prior to 1970, or ~6 years before I was born). If anyone has photos of the inside of Long Marton box, I would be greatful of them... James

ah...now we are starting to get to the automation bits. Spent last night dividing the program into 2- one for functional (IE, normal person) running, and a 2nd one which is the signalbox version. I started by rebuilding one of the two commutator boxes to use a DS 64 (my last spare) instead of the DS 54 which it had before. I've given up on the 54's, as I find them !@#$! near impossible to program. I will keep the ones I have, as they are the only true static output devices I have and I may well need them somewhere for lighting uses, but...they are supremely aggrovating to program, requiring more skill than I have to regularly program them ! (and I am a controls tech !!!) Next step will be, I think, to order some stuff from TTX in order to come up with the 2nd commutator box. I've considered an alternative, but think that the way I am doing this should work. The bell is wired onto a stall output on the DS 64, but because the coil on it is high enough resistance, I'm not too concerned. I set the timeout for 16 seconds, & that's about it. The only other way I can see is to use a DS 52 to drive the bell (& the lock on the commutator) and the DS 64 to drive the motors for the position indicator on the commutator. (as well as the inputs, as there are 4 inputs used each as well) We will see as to when I will manage to do that- there's a list of stuff I'd like from Tony's, but $ is a factor. Anyway, I will see how far I get on this over the next week or so- I will post a video once I get somewhere with the signalbox program...perhaps by new years. James

Auto this... DSC_0040 by Peach James, on Flickr but, it can look more like... DSC_0029 by Peach James, on Flickr James

Another option would be a camera of some sort- be it a web camera, or a baby monitor camera, or a "reverse view" camera. I'd cost them as options, as I am not convinced as to what the cheapest method would be. (#4 would be to use DCC track sections and automate it...haha !) James

ah, the fun of auto continues- I managed to end up with a very dirty wheeled WD stuck at about 2/3rds the way back to the staging yard, after 25 min of trying to get it to run. I need to draw up a formal how to for starting too- if I am not careful, I end up with all kinds of hijinx to sort out before the trains will go. James

2 more hours successfully wasted spent on trying to get Auto to work right. I ended up with 3 trains jamming each other in, which is fine...it does prove some of the features of the system work. Next bit: try again in the morning, after the last few little changes. I had about 1/3rd of the sections in the storage yard mis identified in the computer...I'm, quite frankly, amazed that it worked at all with what I had done. I also labled 3 more sections in the staging yard, which had been ID"d at least once before, but somewhere got stripped off. (I also found a mis-id'd one in the staging yard...only 2 digits off where it was supposed to be !). anyway, at the end I only had to move one train back by manual control...I'll try again at 0545 before I go to work, to see if I have cured the annoying train not filling storage when I want it to glitch... James

Oh, there is a LOT to do to get the programming to where I want it to finally be. The goal is to be able to be like Beast or uxe6, and be the signalbox bloke, rather than be the engine driver. I have had bits of the whole lot working, but not all of it together at all. Perhaps in an hour, I will get to go and work on the current crop of issues, then it will be on to the next set after that... I do it as a merry relaxation from teaching- currently teaching a crowd of Officer of the Day candidates what to do when the ship catches fire, or tries to sink. It's practical physics, if you allow the whole lot to get hot, you get horribly uncomfortable, and if you put too much water in the wrong place, then it tips over ! (good thing our ship is in a building, and not floating on anything less viscous than rock !). I enjoy teaching, really enjoyed teaching certificate 2A stuff when I was doing that, and expect that I am going to enjoy teaching 3A stuff. It's probably more like mentoring than traditional teaching, as my "students" tend to be fairly well motivated individuals. http://watch.discoverychannel.ca/daily-planet/october-2012/daily-planet---october-17-2012/#clip787159 I'll probably post again later- either here or in your thread Jeff, James

I got a bit more testing done last night, after the assistants had gone to bed. I ran through a couple of trains, then put the empty/fill storage switch to empty, and it mostly worked. I still have errors in the RR&Co program, found and fixed a couple of them. I am aware of a few more- the storage yard needs me to hand ID which sections are which again, because it isn't quite acting how I want it to with regards to braking trains & stopping them at the right spot. I think there are a couple of other mistakes in the staging yard too- they are fairly high on my priority to get them done so that it works right. James

Ah, power on Long Marton, box manned and sort of operational. Figured out why one pair of signals wouldn't work- turns out I had unplugged a mains powered transformer at some point, and not plugged it back in (at either end...120ac or 12vdc). 4/6 signals now working correctly. I thought about working on replacing the other 2 with the servo operated ones, then played trains instead. I had to lift the lever frame up and reconnect a wire to get 8 of the 24 levers to connect electrically. Another little bit of work to do, now done. Difficulties: I have a wood fire going, so the 2.5 year old has to stay away from the wood stove. And the 7 year old wanted to run lego trains. (which he did). So, there was 3 bridges in the way of getting around vice 2. That's the price of having assistants though ! Anyway, the 9F looks good trundling through with 36 on behind, James

Wow, clear explanation, Jeff. Many have struggled with exactly what you have drawn- I'm OK with it, but many other people look at it like a nightmare of connecting things !. (& while it might not be something _I_ need, I know this thread is being followed by a lot of people who might otherwise not know how to wire electrofrog...) James

It's all done just with lego, a bunch of it is pinned using Technic axles, and the beams are held together with 1x8 plates top & bottom. No glue at all in the bridge- I have a very few pieces which are glued, mostly used in turnout operators. (and track, a bunch of the track has been cut to form 1/2 and 1/4 straights, but that's a bit different...). The train crash is quite similar to one I had years and years ago on Long Marton 2.0, when I backed a train through a turnout set the wrong way. I seem to think at least one wagon came to grief permanently. James

Renumber Black 5's to be on same address-- done Renumber 28's to be on same address -- done Flash Dominion of Canada & see if that fixes it -- it did ! Put trains back to start positions -- currently correct to computer remove 3rd local train to stop confusing the @!#! computer -- finally removed 3rd local, now only 2 in system right now Work on signals, ensure new (June) signals are operating correctly -- awaiting. printed out paper to see if I have them right for now. I had power on last night, and I will possibly try again tonight. The Class 5's ran through 2 times, and then parked in the storage yard. Next, will be running trains through Long Marton. James

DSC_0060 by Peach James, on Flickr That's a 16 tonner on top of the container...the bridge is 140" between supports, and will support a load of 3 kg distributed. Test running with a battery operated loco- the wiring still needs doing to be able to run LDCC across it. !@!!!#@$ lots of work to make that bridge, it's version 4 or so. I am kind of curious as to what will happen to the lego beams over time, as there is a fair amount of distortion/force on them. Somewhat over 8x the distance in beams is used building this style of bridge. James

I think I tend towards a bit more modern of a taste of music- (since my birthday just passed, and I'm ONLY 36...). Currently been listening to "Little Talks" by Of Monsters and Men. U2 was my thing when I was 12-14, then I found Sarah (Mclachlan) & Sarah (Harmer). The 9F with 40+- 16 tonners on looks good chundling across Trout Beck & heading north to Carlisle, or heading the other way. I've got 2 minerals, one with a 8F the other with a 9F. One of them will end up with the garrett when is released, even if it is "wrong", it is right... I know I have a photo of what happens when the computer thinks it has put a turnout to the other way, and therer is a full train of minerals in front of the class 50 that's at 70 MPH as it runs through the staging yard...the pile up was quite spectacular...at least I am now gluing the coal into the wagons ! It's not on Flickr though, just on the laptop beside me James

a couple of things... 1. working hours- I work 6.75 hrs/day, 5 days/week. When HM decides that is enough !. Of course, that's alongside days. Go to sea, and I work every day, for 6 hrs of watch, 2 hrs of rounds (@ 1:4...it goes to 8 hrs watch, 2 hrs rounds if we go 1:3), a couple of hours of admin, and oh, being on call for the other 12 hrs a day or so ! (and that's each and every day...and the pay is the same...) 2. Buying stuff vs making it- we have, in general, a lot more stuff than our forefathers had. Think how many of your parents had 2 radios- and then think how many people have only 1 TV now...( & a TV is cheaper now than a radio would have been in the 50's as a portion of income...). If I sat in front of the idiot maker on a regular basis, I'd never get anything done. I have too many other things to do to be able to spend time in front of that waste of time... The driver says: Ow ! DSC_0020 by Peach James, on Flickr James

Cor- here I was thinking I have it best of all. Long Marton extends for 3x36 along a wall, then 2x20 and 3x24 or so- giving a surface area of about 200 sq ft of layout. (not including the connecting trackage, which is for the most part, 6" wide boards on the edges of rooms...it contributes a huge amount to the operational experience, but not a lot to the surface area. The lego is a much larger surface area than LM, at about 345 sq ft of surface. There's also the "reserved" area which I have to be able to clear- that's 24x8ft, where the club layout can be set out. (one of the advantages to being in Canada vs being in the UK- huge basement area) James

I have one of the Dapol cleaners, and a Aztec one. Both of them require a brutish loco to push them around the layout. (I use my 50, or the 66...generally, the 50 because the 66 has a bit more flaky transmission system). The Dapol one is best used on vacuum mode, then with the pads. Frankly, putting a DCC chip in it is almost a waste- as it is best run at flat out anyway. The pads seem to work OK for me, but the track can't be totally covered in crud before you start. I also use Peco track cleaners- there's a host of them kicking around the layout rooms, to allow me to spot clean. Using RR&Co, it is important that the start sections be spotless, as a stall on start can create absolute caos as the computer looses the train (sometimes). Best overcome by fitting resistors to some wagon wheelsets, as well as all my brakes and restaraunt cars. Last night, I plowed a Lego loco off the track @ 2100 or so- I have to take a photo to show what that kind of accident looks like. It involved driving the right way through a turnout...right off the table, then down onto the floor. (& that ended my attempt to run a lego train for the first time in a month or so...) I'd spent the day at our community hall (Shirley Community Association, Shirley BC) selling food to the unsuspecting masses. (& the cheesecake was good as ever !). The last couple of weeks have been really messed up, and quite busy, so not a lot has gotten done on either railway. I don't have the freedom of being retired (yet...) James

ah, so, what was today? That's right, 11th. Cold, rainy...check. Normal weather for sailors & ducks... after coming home, fired up the dcc on Long Marton, took the first local and gave it a bit of a run- both up and down. After cooking up dinner & getting little helpers off to bed, I came back down and tried to go back to where I was 3 months ago, and as usual, ended up with trains strewn all around the place and not where the computer thought they were at all. I guess that means tomorrow I have to sort out the mess and correct a few things. (at the end, I hand pushed the brit & passenger train back from the chimney, I had a wood fire going for ~4 hrs or so, as it's 2C or so outside) Known issues: Renumber Black 5's to be on same address Renumber 28's to be on same address Flash Dominion of Canada & see if that fixes it Put trains back to start positions remove 3rd local train to stop confusing the @!#! computer Work on signals, ensure new (June) signals are operating correctly (lego also got a bit done, it still isn't up to being run yet, needs more work on the middle & upper circuits (including the bridge above). James