MarkC

Cheers, Mick. Is that the kit that's more of a J28 than a J23? As 2252 had an ex NER boiler for the period I want it to model, scratchbuilding is definitely looking most likely. I understand that "Zenith", who I've never heard of, once did a J23, but I know nothing more than that. Mark

Have the line closed off as a possession - as was done on the ECML a few years ago with 4 trains running in parallel... Mark

Just putting information together for now - I have just seen a photo of a LNER J23, Number 2252, at Robin Hoods Bay, working a Scarborough - Whitby pickup goods. This came as a big surprise, but obviously I'm now looking to construct one of these locos in due course. As seen, 2252 had been fitted with a boiler seen formerly on a H1, so she was a bit of a mongrel by this time, but nevertheless, I'm now 'on the hunt', as it were. I know that there was once a kit, but I suspect that these may now be rarer than hen's teeth, so scratchbuilding it will be. A search hasn't brought up suitable drawings as yet. Photos - I'll look at my copy of Yeadon when I get home, but obviously any additional info would be gratefully received. Thanks in advance Mark

Yes, 75MPH over the viaduct, then opening up at the north end of the station would have been an aural treat! There's something almost primeval about a Deltic in full cry! Mark

My wife was on this one, if it's the trip I'm thinking of - some friends had joined the train at York, and she, along with many others, was stood on the platform at Durham waiting. To their horror, "Boat 9" shot through on the Down Fast. However, it was a smart piece of work by Control - there was a train just behind the special, so in order not to delay that one, the special's passengers at Durham were told to board this normal service for the short run to Newcastle, where the special was held for them. There's a super video on FaceAche, taken by a friend of mine, of Tornado lifting the train - 13 on & no diesel, IIRC - from the stop at Durham on the return journey. Not a hint of a slip; just steady acceleration up the bank & away to York. Mark

TBH, I think you'd have been well within your rights - "not as shown in photographs"...

Oh, I knew it would be pretty basic in its execution - but what a good idea. Certainly proves the old maxim about "nothing new under the sun". A steam turbine bowthruster in 1927 - I doubt that it would have a controllable pitch impeller, allowing it to run at a constant speed, so reversing it would take time. As you say, that would be fascinating to find out more about it. Post edited after John posted more details - by the 1960s technology had moved on a lot. As an aside, I once travelled on the 1965 Ben My Cree - lovely ship :) Mark

Romford Bulldog - a beast of a motor! Good piece of kit. Mark

A bow rudder? For the time, that would have been advanced technology, certainly on a seagoing vessel. The idea of using it as you suggest they wanted to makes good sense, although quite how effective it would have been in mountainous seas is another question. Even a modern bow thruster would struggle, I think. Even today, to get onto the foc's'le in bad weather can be a potentially lethal business - nothing changes there... Mark

So the doors were indeed stove in whilst in open water - and that North Channel is an utter swine, particularly in a NW storm. Once in open water, and with damaged stern doors, yes, turning wasn't an option. So basically she was overwhelmed, although as Bon Accord has confirmed that the aft doors were flimsy, they were basically unfit for purpose. I only wondered about the possibility of the Master being perhaps unapproachable because, sadly, sometimes this can be a factor in disasters, & not just maritime ones. (I offer the BEA Trident that stalled after takeoff from Heathrow in 1972, killing all on board, as a good example of this). It's good to know that he wasn't. "Estonia" is certainly a puzzle - wasn't there a story doing the rounds that diving on the wreck was ruled to be forbidden? If so, what are the powers that be hiding? In any case, RIP all who died in these incidents; indeed to all who set off on a voyage not knowing that, through no fault of their own, they would not reach their destination alive. Mark

FSE is always a cumulative effect - so the designers obviously were aware of the risks of it, hence the good sized scuppers, but perhaps didn't consider that the deck would be opened up as much as it was because of the stern doors failing. If the doors were, indeed, damaged during departure then one does have to question why the Master insisted on continuing with his voyage. Easy to say with hindsight, of course, but surely he would have been made aware of the damage down aft? Or was he a martinet - we know the type - "My way or the gangway, mister. I'M THE MASTER, and don't you forget it"? As such, were his Officers scared to report damage to him? Estonia's Master reportedly keeping on full speed raises more questions, of course - was he under pressure to do so? However, wasn't she equipped with secondary doors too - the visor being only really hull plating? Was she Ice-classed too? I presume that she was, being built to operate in the Baltic. Mark

The "Celtic Pride" was definitely jinxed - as I recall, the poisoning of the passengers was due to a serious fault with the sewage plant, combined with poor ventilation in the accommodation itself - another classic case of the links in the chain all being present... "Estonia" - the official line, I understand, is that her bow doors simply gave way due to the mountainous seas she was encountering. However, many are not so sure... Regarding the "Princess Victoria", as I recall from reading reports of the disaster the car deck was actually open; the doors were more to merely keep rain & spray out; they weren't watertight as such. She was pooped, (the term given when a large wave lands, uninvited, on the stern deck - the poop); the doors failed to stop the sheer volume of water involved and the drain ports on the car deck couldn't allow the water that then ran onto the car deck to drain quickly enough. Free Surface Effect did the rest. And yet, everyone should have been aware of FSE - the "Normandie" capsized at her berth in New York as a result of firefighters using hoses & lots of water to extinguish a fire on board, without thinking about where the water would go. Answer - it didn't drain away quickly, and once the ship listed slightly, it ran to the low side, making the list worse until she went over... Ditto the "Empress of Canada", which suffered a similar fate whilst berthed in Liverpool. Mark

That's usually the case with accidents - all links (ie circumstances/actions) in a chain join up. Break a link & the accident doesn't happen - on that occasion... Regarding the ferry bow doors - later that year I was rejoining the same ship that I mentioned upthread, at Port Jerome, France. This required me to fly from Newcastle to Heathrow, get the bus to Portsmouth & the ferry to Le Havre. Crazy - but that's how things were often done back then - and this was a certain mob which paints their hulls blue & has a star on the lum... Anyway, the ferry, a P&O job, was moored bow in, so on sailing it was necessary to back off the linkspan until the visor could be lowered & locked. Obviously the inner doors would be closed prior to undocking, especially after the events of earlier that year. I was in the bar which looked forwards during departure - a woman further along the bar realised that the visor was still up and that we were moving, & promptly went into absolute hysterics, screaming that we were all about to die because the ship would sink etc etc. It took 3 or 4 people to restrain her & calm her down. Not a nice thing to witness, but shows the way that people can be influenced by the media etc. Mark

Indeed so. SOLAS was born from the Titanic's demise - and rightly so. The Herald was a shockingly awful cockup. No checks, plenty of assumptions made, I suspect that there was an element of incapacity too... I was on a ship that was outbound from Terneuzen, bound for the USA, just after it happened. We passed fairly close. Our Master offered our help, but we weren't needed. I'll always remember the scene - utterly shocking. Sadly it takes serious loss of life before anything happens - the ISM Code only came about because of the "Scandinavian Star" disaster, of course... Mark

In fairness, Costa Concordia was laid open in excess of what you'd normally hope was a worst case scenario - in many ways she was almost a modern day "Titanic". The gods were looking down favourably that day... Mark

Agreed 100% - but as I said, it's a hell of a long way from the open deck to the water, and I suspect that realistically it's beyond the design limits for the lifejackets. Mark

There are several recent posts with the link on FarceBerk, Rich... Mark

Problem is, even with a battery isolator, if the battery develops an internal short then it self-immolates, and there's not a lot you can do to stop it, certainly by conventional means. Mark

And that is EXACTLY the issue we face. Scary stuff. I'm glad I work on nice, safe, clean liquid gas carriers... Mark

Surprised that this hasn't been mentioned yet https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12338705/One-sailor-dead-23-evacuated-burning-18-500-tonne-cargo-ship-carrying-3-000-cars-North-Sea-Holland-electric-vehicle-caught-fire.html Apologies for the source, but it's pretty much verbatim per more reputable sources, some of which are behind paywalls... Tragically, one member of the crew lost their life trying to tackle the fire - condolences to his shipmates, family & friends. What's not mentioned is that some of those who jumped into the water suffered injury on impact with the 'oggin - it's a long way down on these car carriers... Mark

Serious question here - what colour primer & undercoat was used by the NER before the green topcoat was applied? I know that the Midland's paint system was quite involved; it was partly responsible for the wonderfully deep colour that we know. (I'm away from my own reference library at present, otherwise I'd look this up myself). Mark

You speak for all of us who have had the same concerns, Jesse. Practice on some scrap first - drill some holes in narrow offcuts & have a go. Like most intricate jobs, there's a knack to it, but once you've done a few joints, you'll wonder what the fuss was all about! Cheers Mark

Hello Tony I think that they did - I'm sure that I've seen a photograph of an Atlantic that was in a spot of bother, having got a bogie wheel caught in an intimate embrace with the cylinder or crosshead. That's an interesting point that you make about the model Raven A2s - I don't think that the cylinders are much higher, if at all, than the Atlantics, or indeed the B16s. Did DJH mount them a little further out, perchance? Mark

We NER modellers have been a bit of a backwater for RTR for many years - fortunately there have been a goodly assortment of kits to help; some good, some VERY good and some which are/were not so good at all... It's been nice to see the Class O (G5), Class T2 (Q6) and Class P3 (J27) appear as RTR, and they seem to be doing very well. Then there's the new A5, so there's been definite progress. J21, J24, J25 and A6, anyone? However, no matter how many times they appear on the wish list, I still think that it'll be a long time before we see things like Class D (H1), Class S3 (B16) or A8, or the Raven Atlantics, in RTR, simply because of the limited clearances for the bogie wheels behind the cylinders. This, the ability (or lack of it) to negotiate even 3rd radius curves is another criteria to add to Tony's list, I suggest. Mark

Well done. Soldering, and whitemetal soldering in particular, is one of those techniques that sounds more daunting than it actually is. It's a damn sight faster than using epoxy too! Mark