ROY@34F

Another photo in "Grantham Matters" which may be of interest. Again 1934. Grantham bus station, the top end and then the lower end. Looks to be a lot of vehicles.

                                                                                                         Hi Graham,

See attached photo in today's " Grantham Matters" web site. Taken in 1934, north end of High Street, Angel and Royal Hotel behind the LNER lorry. Just about your period.

Phil,

 

The ground dolls and their working mechanisms are all Roy Vinter's work. Together with another friend we're in the process of installing all the mechanisms (over 200 years of experience among us!). Unfortunately, two need repair. I had visitors one day and invited one of them to just operate one of the ground dolls. He yanked at it as if he were operating the real thing, breaking the cotton which forms the final part of the operating mech'. Another was wiped out by a 'nasty', visiting, derailing DMU, and needs repair. 

 

In order to prevent further damage to the operating mechs', I'll cut the steel rod which forms the primary motion and insert a chocolate-block type electrical joiner in each one so that it butts up against the inside of the baseboard, preventing too much movement.

 

The working ground signals add a real vitality to the operation of the layout.

 

You mentioned featuring my cassette system just built. Though only one train will use them, it might be of interest to others so I'll take some pictures. I can accommodate over 40 trains already (I heartily dislike moving stock around by hand) and the cassettes allow me to have one more. They're just made from aluminium angle and wood, as you saw.   

Hi Tony, 

I hope to soon be able to come over and finish off the dollies operating stuff. My leg pain turned out to be a nerve trapped by a disc in the spine, and I am now 90% better. At present I am catching up a bit with jobs I couldn't deal with before.

I'll give you a ring, and bring a few spares with me to sort out damage !

Nice that our friendly duck appreciated the little signals.

Regards, Roy.

Just catching up on this thread, and congratulations on this brilliant layout Alex. But I don't know how accurate you aim to be with buildings etc. ,because in post 69, that looks like an ash plant ? If so, there wasn't an ash plant at Top Shed, nor at the station loco. Indeed I don't think there was one of that type any where on the ECML, at least up to York as I remember, but I would stand corrected on that.

Regards, Roy.

Regarding "ovoids", I'm sure they are what we called brickets, or as someone else has said, something worse than that, and quite unrepeatable to today's delicate society. 

They were terrible things anyway, the best way of ruining a fire.

Regards, Roy.

 Thanks Roy. Would that have been the early morning duty where the Nottingham and Newark coaches were added to a few more at Grantham, and then as you say off to KX?

I'm not sure about that Gilbert. I can't even remember how early in a morning it was , but I do remember it being a bit droughty going to Newark !

Roy.

Re. tender first running,

We had a job at Grantham tender first to Newark with empty coaches, run round and set off back KX, calling at wherever. Now this would involve lamps on the middle and left buffer of course for empty coaches to Newark. I can only recall A3s on the job, but an A4 corridor tender wouldn't obviously be able to do that. At KX mainline tender engines 

reversed in both directions to and from Top shed and an A4 corridor tender could'nt have the correct light engine head code. Three signal boxes were involved in that move, but So long as there was a lamp at both ends it didn't matter where they were.

Regards, Roy.

Tony, 

I saw my message "envelope" flag up with a message from you, but it's not there ! Whatever is it with these things .

Roy.

Tony,

I sent you a PM yesterday, and don't think you've seen it. Quite forgivable of course, particularly us of a certain age !

Roy.

I would say the brickwork was red brick Graham , on the old shed , but stand being corrected if anyone knows better .

Brilliant work , as usual .

Regards , Roy

Hi Tony, 

I'm trying to post a photo ; not done this before.If it works you'll see what will be winging over to L.B. soon . I'll be in touch shortly  not this week I'm afraid.

Roy.

 We put it as near as we could to where it was sited on the real thing Roy.

ground signal.jpg

As you can see, it really was quite close, and of course I have less room on the model. it is all a question of the angle from which the photo was taken too, I suppose.

Yes I can see what you mean Gilbert . It maybe looks worse than what it is ; just struck me a bit odd , but you had obviously done it correctly .

I meant to say also in my post a few minutes ago ; In that view , often used in your photos , the siteing of that dolly signal is a bit unfortunate , somewhat obscured by the relay box !

Enough of complaining , those new headlamps really look the business don't they , I'm going to have to get some of those .

Roy . 

 

04 1.jpg

Tempsford - New England Class F, headed by a borrowed 04/8, which isn't due to head back home until the small hours, so that's all right really.

Ain't  that headcode class E Gilbert , or No.3 speed , part fitted freight , only a few fitted wagons . Class F lamps should be smokebox and left hand buffer I'm sure . Unfitted throughout .

Roy 

RE : Train headboards etc.

I remember in my early days cleaning at Grantham , 1957 , there was a stand with various train headboards near the bike shed/time office area . They were'nt transferred on the platform , I'm pretty sure .

As for cleaners at KX Top shed . Again through personal memory , I remember when on my 2-year stint on loan there , during Peter Townend's time , there was a gang of polish men who cleaned the engines , polished the front buffers etc. under their foreman , Dick Ball , I think his name was . They always seemed a hard working happy band .

A little story ; I once had to go see Mr. Townend , cap in hand  I was advised , for a rollicking . I had pulled some points over in the loco and waved my driver back into a shed road and the tender came off the road before he could bring it to a stop . It appeared there was a bit of coal in the point blades and they had'nt gone fully over , resulting in a bit of bumping on the sleepers !!

P.N.T. told me I'd be back at Grantham if I did'nt behave myself .

All this talk of how easy quartering is on Romford/Markit wheels. Obviously no-one but me has had an axle on which the two square ends were out of alignment. Took me a while to find that out. Never did get that axle to run with its neighbours! 

 

ArthurK

You're not the only one Arthur . I was scratching my head too , though it's many years ago .

Roy.

Thanks Gilbert for your reply in  post 10084 . As I tried to say , people like yourself can explain things such as engine changes far better and more eloquently than I .

Roy .

Flood commented,

 

Quote " What surprised me is the amount of loco changing there was in steam days on the East Coast. I'm so used to 1970s and 80s diesel loco diagrams where changes only occurred if a train reversed or a swap to electric traction was needed" Quote.

 

I suspect "Roy34F" would be better answering this,but I am concerned for his blood pressure.  The amount of coal these guys shifted on a 100 mile journey was amazing and changing crews was an option.However the need to maintain Loco's on a daily basis, such as raking out ash from the fire and debris from the smokebox was a factor even topping up water if the Troughs had not been at full capacity or God forbid the fireman got his timing wrong with the scoop,maybe even rendering it unuseable for the rest of the turn. Not that Roy would ever have done this  .  .Also having enough Locomotives of the right type in the correct place was a factor.Top Link drivers were often allocated engines which happened at 34A Top Shed. They treated them as if they were "Pets"  and got right humpty if they had to drive an inferior engine (In their opinion).  The agreements with the unions also limited the hours a crew would be working, so there were lots of reasons why Locomotives were changed,many that I have not touched on. Grantham was a much busier place for this activity than dear old Peterborough North. I believe PN saw Gateshead crews change engines there a lot presumably to get out and home within their shift.

 You flatter me Derek . There are people on here more able to explain why engine changes were common practice . However I will make a few comments . As for blood pressure , well we were young (I was 20 in 1961) and relatively fit enough to shovel a bit of coal now and then , and what would we shift ? maybe a couple of ton from Grantham to KX ?  We were'nt at it continuously , little and often was the rule , if possible . Of course there might be times when things did'nt go too well . Coming back with iron ore empties from Frodingham springs to mind with one of our trusty Tangos and a fire that had'nt seemed to have had much cleaning by the Frod men ! By the time you got to Ancaster bank and then up the curve from Barkston East onto the main line and trying to keep up to speed to the slow road at Grantham Yard box , with a box full of mucky fire was'nt always much fun ! 

As you say it was hard work cleaning fires , shovelling lumps of clinker out of the firehole door to chuck out the side had to be done on many engines with no rocking grates or drop grates , which the A1s,A2s , and A3s had respectively . It was often hot work as well especially in summer . Far better out on the road with a bit of cooling air if you stick your head out a bit ! I was only really a lad , so not on the main line all the time , and I was probably lucky as all the A3s were converted to double chimney/bastpipe just about by my days on them , which of course was'nt that often , but which has been well documented as transforming them into extremely free steaming engines , which they were , and I don't recall having any trouble at all on any pacific engines , A1s to A4s and V2s . But as I say I only occasionally had a main line trip . That's also why I feel there are other folk on here more experienced to comment . I loved it on the "big hitters", the A3s &A4s were lovely engines to fire on I thought . I sometimes got on a main line job by swapping Jake Garland , who you may remember Derek . Jake was in No.3 link at the time and if I was up the Stainby branch , Jake and I would swap sometimes as he liked to do a bit of poaching ! Of course , I used to love it .

Nice of you to think I could'nt possibly have lost the tip off the water scoop Derek! Well I can actually say I don't think I ever did . I'm sure you'd feel it if you did because it would suddenly wind up very freely . And I would always top up over the troughs , on any sort of train . Saves you humping the bag in somewhere else !

However...I ramble , as regards engine changes , I think they decreased a lot after around 1958 at Grantham due to the cocknies and geordies doing lodging turns . Ok Grantham still had a lot of work to KX and York but I think the Newcastle turns finished about then BUT I'm not sure about that .

Regards , Roy .

Thanks Roy, that is very useful. Will try that out because when you look through a magnifier you can see the dot pattern from the colour laser printed transfer - probably fine for most but in reality if I can see it then I think others will too and I will try and do a better job. I have to say that none of my ground signals have lights nor do the balance weights move, going to have to try and resolve the balance weights though but lights are out for this layout.

 

Ralph

Hope you succeed Ralph . Re. the moving balance weights , Steve has done it on this thread, which inspired me to have a go , and if you look on page 306 on Tony Wright's thread , Wright Writes , about 1/4 of the way down the page , there are photos he took of my efforts , but I'm not clever enough to operate them like Steve does ; all these advanced electrics are beyond me !

Roy.

Steve, you have made a superb job of building our LMS ground signal etch. I have made up a few but they can't compare to the build you have there, well done. 

 

Can you elaborate on how you painted the red band please? I have used the transfers available from Hall Royd Junction for mine but it looks like yours may be painted. These things are tiny so I would be interested to know. 

 

I am making a new set for Slattocks Junction which use the MERG system of removing the signals from the baseboards leaving the servos attached to the baseboards. They are effectively hot-pluggable signals using chip carriers for the locators and so far the results are very promising and well worth using. We have a 3 high ground signal block so it is more or less essential that they are removable from the layout for track cleaning purposes.

 

Excellent work, pity you can't live near us!!

 

Ralph

Yes Ralph , I would be also be interested how Steve paints the red strips , but thought I'd just say how I attack it and which works OK for me .  I paint a cigarette paper (Rizla blue , which is .001" thick) with Humbrol Signal Red . When well dry , cut a strip/strips what width you think , and stick a length on the signal with varnish , manouvering into position with a fine brush. When well dry again , trim the overhanging paper very carefully . I initially spray Halfords white primer on the signals of course . Steve may well have a better idea and I'm sure like me , you too find his work fascinating and inspiring .

This fag paper idea was on the go in the '60s , before lining transfers were available for loco lining , which folk like me of a certain age remember .

Regards , Roy . 

Thanks Roy.

 

I think some careful siting of the loco crew is going to be called for. 

Yes your right Jonny,that should work ,but with the old GN cabs it might not be so easy.

I have just noticed in the cab view of post 162. The regulator should be the single centrally pivoted type , on the O2/3&4 at least,and not the type rather poorly represented , which is moor like on the pacifics plus some other classes . The firehole door ....well I have to say it is a disappointment. It should be the oval side hinged type with a swivelling flap pivoted horizontally across the middle,as on all other ER/LNER engines as far as I know.

Overall the model is excellent and of course there will always be little things that we can alter if we don't like them. But that's an LMS type door surely !    really!

Roy.

...........  I notice Bill Bedford mentioned a 'pick-up goods' and yet I can't recall ever hearing the term 'pick-up goods' (or more correctly 'pick-up freight') ever used by railwaymen during my entire railway career and I worked or spent time at several freight marshalling yards, in England and Wales, working alongside men whose railway employment stretched back to pre-war years - but of course it was on the Western, and we had 'Local Trips' and 'trip freights'.  So terminology varied which perhaps doesn't help much and adds to the confusion.

Sorry Mike,but I have to say in my time at Grantham we used to have a "pick up goods" job to New England . Not sure if we had a northbound equivalent .So as you say just a local thing I guess.

Regards,Roy. 

A very happy new year to you and Mo Tony,and all the other people commenting on this interesting and inspirational thread.

Roy.

IN Arthur K's photo in post 2694 , the tubs look the same as the Grantham ones , but NOT the chutes . At Grantham the tub wheels located in like a cradle the same radius /shape of the wheels , and the tub swivelled in a tipping motion emptying into the tender below . I'm sure I've seen pictures of it some where ; probably in John Clayson's "Return to Grantham" thread in RMWeb , or the "ebook" thingy he and others have embarked upon : see www.returntograntham.co.uk .

I'm sure you're aware of this site though Graham , and as the business side of the old coaling stage is not on the viewing side I did'nt think you would be modelling the tubs . Hence I did'nt really comment in detail too much .

 Regards , Roy.