Ralf

So, what's been going on... Well not a great deal, there was the revelation the base of the Dapol Crane and having looked at the build kit I didn't fancy totally wrecking it so a total of £5.20 was spent on a popular internet auction site for another kit... Which I have taken files and knives too - see below and as the legs on the section designed to have the track below are more vertical I don't think they need any shaving down which makes life easier than I expected. 

The original and narrow-ed versions, bit of filler required but otherwise it's better built than the original! 

It looks tight width-wise...

Having drawn round the above armed with my scale rules and this link which gives prototypical dimensions it looks like I've got away with it... https://www.igg.org.uk/gansg/2-track/02track3.htm

So all in all I'm very chuffed with that, £5 and a hour spent and the gauge of the crane much reduced. Next up is working out exactly how much Scalescenes factory I'm building to work out where the rear siding needs to be before I start on track building...

Cheers

Ralf

On 23/04/2020 at 21:55, Roy Langridge said:

I would still remove the half panel using a cutting mat, a piece of wood to allow the overhang and a new blade. 

Thanks for that Roy and excuse the delay in replying, that's what I did and was very pleasantly surprised how neat and square I got the results! 

6 hours ago, marc smith said:

Just to be clear, I would never have suggested angling those crane supports - the off-horizontal girders wouldn't have looked good...

Apologies Marc, I misunderstood entirely. I think I shall have a go at bashing the kit as you suggest, if it all goes horribly wrong I can acquire another kit / set of legs and go with the wider plan! 

If I can somehow secure all the legs together, perhaps in a jig of some sort to avoid them moving lengthwise it should be fairly easy to file the legs to match (he says oh so innocently!)... 

Thanks

Ralf

Have been thinking about stuff, layout, buildings etc with the Scalescenes factory & warehouse kit which are planned for a matching dark red brick, then at the right hand end a gated entrance into a rail served factory which never sees any traffic... 

I'm currently quite happy with the plan but plan to trim the crane down a little to use it as the scenic break on the front exit of the layout. Although I think I may try as @marc smith suggests to narrow the gauge of it a little but the horizontal bits on the re-angled legs would no longer be horizontal, if that would trouble me I don't know but doubt it. The blue marker pen line is roughly where the landward crane rail will be, which will run almost the entire length of the layout.

As for exits I think the current plan is two on the left the dock siding being just that and the main exit just behind having access to a traverser / cassette fiddle yard. 

Cheers

Ralf

6 hours ago, Phil Traxson said:

look closely at the crane rail /railway intersection and suggest that the piece of rail, set for the railway in the picture, would only have to pivot to make a continuous rail for the crane and allow for double flanged wheels

That's a very good point indeed Phil! It'd never have occurred to me but looking at it now it seems rather likely! 

I think I shall model as 1 set of wheels (seaward) are double flanged and the other set are flange-less nonetheless! 

Thanks

Ralf

7 hours ago, Yardman said:

In the picture shown only the wheels on the side nearest the ship would be flanged and the wheels are flanged both sides. The other wheel-sets that have to cross the railway tracks are not flanged and can cross other rails without problems. 

Thanks Yardman that makes a lot of sense! 

Ralf

16 hours ago, hayfield said:

With the layout you are proposing is it a shunting puzzle ? or is it to be a scenic plank to show off stock?, is there to be 1, 2 or 3 exits?

Shunting Puzzle with probably 1 or 2 exits both on the left hand side, but that isn't fixed in stone. 

The brewery sounds interesting John, I shall need to look into that as it's a subject close to my heart! Relatively unusual for non huge breweries to have their own railways... 

4 hours ago, marc smith said:

I think you could achieve this, mainly by bringing the "main" road (in the middle) a little further forward.

Thanks for the helpful and encouraging words of wisdom Marc, I shall play with the layout etc tonight, but there's 1 stumbling block about shifting the middle road forward - see pic... As you can see the dockside road needs shifting in a bit to centre it below the crane which has a very wide footprint... 

3 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said:

Might I suggest that the back siding could serve a warehouse built over it, to keep the cramped, busy feel to the dockside

Thanks for the suggestion, I like the idea... Ideally need to try and find something easily kit buildable but equally maybe any old warehouse on stilts would fit the bill... Hmmm will need to think on that... 

Thanks 
Ralf

Hi Folks, 

Hoping to include a Dapol Dockside crane on a forthcoming OO-SF Micro layout - see link (https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/153445-siddals-road-quay-changing-the-plan-again/), but looking to include some point work along the dockside which is also where the crane and it's rails will be modelled (the crane is planned to be static, so only cosmetic rails). The big question was how the crane would traverse across such diverging bits of railway if you get my drift... 

Then this thread and picture from @Schoonerappeared, can anyone give me any other examples or what the other options were especially later in history 60s/70s preferably... I suspect the answer is that generally cranes were just on long straight sidings and it was a rare problem to have? 

Thanks

Ralf

Well I seem to have changed the plan - again! I decided I didn't like the kinda S bend affair in the run round loop so it's gone so currently I've revised it as shown but I'm tempted with the extra siding but not sure why it's there or if I can / should have a slither of loading dock next to the mill... I think I liked the idea of having the mill and the crane at the same end as a factory / private complex but then the logistics of fencing it off or having road vehicles involved became confusing! 

It's all very convoluted and cramped and doesn't feel natural as a scene to me BUT I suppose it never will in this kind of space.... Oh decisions decisions, I really wish I could commit myself to it...

NEW LAYOUT PLAN: 

OLD PLAN

Any thoughts would be welcomed with very open arms! Maybe I should dump the loop and go inglenook? 

Ralf

Well the mill is coming on... No idea how / where it's going on the layout but want it to it's such a magnificent building! 

Building outer layers attached, window frames painted and now glazed... Printed some cut lines on some OHP transparency, cut em out, glued them on with Glue n Glaze as Jonathon recommends. They're not sat under a SMS 400mm fiddle stick baseboard with some weights added so ensure they stick etc... 

Some progress to the Quay Side, have added some 4mm card supports to the rear and 'painted' the baseboard front with a black permanent marker so the Quay Side hangs over the baseboard front. Cutting the recess for the steps etc took more brute force than I'd imagined - solid stuff this MDF! The piles have all been built but I'll glue them in when I actually attach the quayside front which will follow track laying... 

Meanwhile I've started construction on the JS Models Mill (JSM02S) as you can see... 

It's not upside down when I upload it - sorry! 

That's all the news to report! 

Ralf

On 21/04/2020 at 22:09, jim.snowdon said:

It reminds me of the instructor who taught me to weld. His words were, more or less, by Wednesday, you will be getting thoroughly p****d off because it will seem like you can't get a good weld. Then it will click, and by Friday you will be wondering what all the fuss was about. Building track is a bit like that; not quite as difficult, but there will come a moment when it all starts to work and from then on you will not look back.

Thanks Jim, kinda feel this attempt is much better but only using 60/40 leaded solder, no extra flux and pritt stick! 

Comments please on this lot folks think it's showing some potential! 

Thanks

Ralf

Hi all, 

Have been busy building the Scalescenes Dock Edge kit, and before I work out where I'm going to put the piles I realised it makes sense to work out how the sections will join together then work the spacing of piles out... BUT if you glue them end to end the right hand of each section has 1/2 a panel of concrete so when put together it doesn't match / line up... 

How would you guys tackle this? Guessing trimming the 1/2 panel off the end - but what will give the neatest result now it's L shaped with the top and fronts... 

Many thanks

Ralf

Hi All, 

Been kinda quiet layout-wise although I've been working on my PCB Track and Soldering technique with loads of help and advice over in the Hand Built Track Section - see this thread: 

Otherwise not a lot to report but my Scalescenes Dock Side is almost done - except I think I'll probably need two prints / sets for the whole layout. I've made a slight mess of the edging on the section with the steps which themselves aren't 100% correct but think it'll be ok with another edging strip and the piles installed! 

Wondering if to mount it on the layout and raise the ground level considerably or to wrap around the front fascia of the baseboard - kinda like in the picture below but obviously not just lent against it! 

Cheers
Ralf

13 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

Don't try to pull the track off the paper, turn it over and peel the paper off the track - low tack tape probably won't hold the sleepers well enough.

Ah! Of course I was being especially daft, thanks @Michael Edge it makes FAR more sense your way, I somehow without thinking just went to lift it off! 

7 hours ago, Andy Reichert said:

Have you tried putting your longest wheelbase loco onto this turnout? It looks a little tight if you intend to run small 6 coupled shunters.

Thanks Andy, I have now has a Oxford Janus and a Bachmann USA tank run through it ok - admittedly once I'd butchered one point blade and added a check rail! Although seeing as it's going in the bin anyway it was sacrificial! 

23 hours ago, roythebus said:

I sometimes use prit stick to hold the track down

Thanks @roythebus and @Enterprisingwestern I shall try Pritt Stick with tomorrows next play... 

Cheers

Ralf

6 hours ago, jim.snowdon said:

There is nothing wrong with cored 60/40 solder either - it works just as well

Seeing as @jim.snowdon and @gordon s get good results with multi-core I thought I'd have a play while waiting for my Red Flux from Carrs. See results below, which I used Carrs Orange Flux & 60/40 Multicore solder - figured belt & braces and so on... Mostly happy with the results

Although when I came to remove the track from the template it all went horribly wrong - the 1mm double sided tape I've used intended for repairs to mobile phones has quite some grip!! 

I shall be back with more photos of my results with red flux and once I've considered tie bars more deeply. Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to respond and give helpful advise. 

Ralf

2 hours ago, locotracteur351 said:

This will be a small colliery on the brink of closure, run down and overgrown. I can’t wait!

Sounds just up my street! Looking forward to more updates...

Ralf

1 hour ago, jim.snowdon said:

I have been using no-clean fluxes from the electronics industry for fifty years in building both track and etched brass and nickel silver kits with no problems.

Interesting Jim, think I'm going to try some of Carrs Red Flux as I'm struggling with the Orange - but that's probably technique and experience! 

1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

IMHO, you need to turn the wick up on the iron, or dwell a bit longer to get the solder to flow a tad better, the joints seem to err on the side of dryness.

Thanks Mike, I'm using a 75w iron set to 450c so suspect it's dwell longer... 

12 hours ago, Andy Reichert said:

What sort of locomotive(s) do you intend to use?

Short wheelbase industrials and BR shunters, both steam and diesel. 

11 hours ago, Grovenor said:

Unless its an optical illusion from the photos the rail looks to be upside down. The head should be bigger than the foot.

Tis an illusion I assure you, I having read about the ease of using it upside down I always try and remember there's a right way and a wrong way! 

Are there any recommended video tutorials of soldering PCB track up? I realise it must be a pain film to do but I find video so much more helpful than interpreting a book. 

Thanks

Ralf

Here we are folks, have been away and tried rather harder with the soldering... Comments please! 

There's pics below or a YouTube video which is rather tedious but eye opening seeming my work literally larger than real life!  

Many thanks

Ralf

9 hours ago, hayfield said:

Are you using liquid flux? and why are you getting solder on the inside of the rail ?

Yes, Carr's orange flux and I suspect having read the responses above far too much of it... 

5 hours ago, jim.snowdon said:

As the points are changed, the twist between the switch rails and the stretcher bar will eventually break either the joint or the sleeper. The solution is either to use a hinged joint between the two, or a stretcher bar that will flex. What scale are you working in?

That's very helpful Jim, hinged blades is something I've not even considered... Working in 4mm:ft (4-SF)

37 minutes ago, Andy Reichert said:

Turnouts in public areas typically have to have safety features to prevent humans getting trapped and injured by moving point blades. And if you are after realism, are very visibly different.

Thanks Andy, good point. It's public wharf area but as a beginner I'm not too worried about exact realism yet but that's a very good point... 

38 minutes ago, Andy Reichert said:

Also soldering stretcher bars to points is risky if the bars are then hidden under a plaster street surface. Solder doesn't set hard like glues do and broken (metal fatigue) joints need to be repaired every so often.

Ah! Now that's something I'd not considered...

Off to practise some soldering with a straight bit and I shall post the results in a hour or so! 

Many thanks to everyone for the input... 

Ralf

Hi All, 

Jumping into PCB track construction with some vague degree of success so far, it's all going to be inlaid so I'm not currently having to worry about having all the sleepers let alone their arrangements, but one stumbling block so far is that solder on the sleeper carrying the tips of the point blades obstructs the free movement of the point blades... See poor picture below: (more general pictures at the bottom of the post) 

What's the solution? I've tried sucking the solder and filing / grinding it out of the way but not achieved anything good enough yet... I suspect de-soldering braid or not getting it there in the first place are the answers? 

Many thanks

Ralf

Well here it is - finished excl some tidying up and splitting the point blades from the wing rails (you know where I mean!) - Workbench and books downstairs and I'm upstairs now...  *

Only 1 snag - I've added an extra sleeper to support the tips of the point blades, but the solder on the stock rails is interfering with their smooth operation... - ie they don't close, or when they do they've ridden up on the solder... (See pic 3 below) 

Is the answer to glue the supporting sleeper in place and avoid the problem? Which would solve my problem BUT surely there's a better answer for people needing to use more sleepers than me? 

Please excuse the dubious quality of the photographs, with the desk lamp out they're poor quality and grainy but with it on there's shadows, glint-y bits and all sorts... 

Thanks

Ralf

* and a tie bar... 

On 16/04/2020 at 09:56, Sturminster_Newton said:

We all live and learn that less can in many cases be more, the over provision of buildings is a well known problem yet we all fall into the same trap. With either too much track or too many structures.

Yes I have been battling with myself to resist squeezing another siding in! Very wise words... 

On 16/04/2020 at 11:56, hayfield said:

Please where was this plan published 

Good question (scurries off to find it) - p110 in Creating Cameo Layouts. 

Process has begun albeit a couple of hours work has so far produced this with thanks also due to @Brian Harrap also for his Vee filing techniques.  

Here's where I've got too this lunchtime, slight drama when I realised I've not put a set in the rail, but soon-ish removed and remedied. Which wasn't as painful as I'd expected although much more to learn about soldering and flux before I could say it was quick, painless or easy! 

Thanks all for the input. 

Ralf

So, there's been progress! The ambition is to go hand built track using PCB and Templot with Iain Rice's book (PCB Track) and @hayfield thread as help / guidance. 

Especially as all of the track will be inlaid with either tarmac or cobbles this seems an ideal introduction to producing PCB track work without worrying about the cosmetics lower down in the ground... I've gone to a Vee angle of 1:3 as discussed here: 

I have to admit the original move towards PCB was that Peco Code 75 seems in very short supply out there and hey why not took over and I've now got the bit between my teeth and I think I have everything I need from Marcway for the build... We shall see! 

Cheers
Ralf

Hi All, 

Another kinda lock-down micro layout project hoping to use it to actually kick start some more serious and ambitious projects but always struggle to do / achieve anything so it's a start. Using the Iain Rice plan (shown below) and a ScaleModelScenery BB017 baseboard - which almost match size-wise (scenic area anyway).

I started with a couple of building mock ups mainly Scalescene as I had their website and sizes to hand... As you can see any full buildings will need to be rather small, I suspect when Iain wrote "Warehouse" he means Garden Shed!! 

Also I've got a mostly built Dapol dockside crane which needs a good home kindly given away by @Rowsley17D, I've got a @Giles cobble sett embossing tool and two JS Models kits on order from @jrb 

So that's kinda the plan, geographically unknown so-far, 1960s-70s-ish quay side location with a warehouse, dockside crane and some industrial / private owner shunters for reasons I've not explained (or decided upon yet)... (Rule 1 perhaps?)

Any thoughts, input, feedback and suggestions much appreciated!

Ralf