melmerby

A further titbit regarding RODs:

I read in one of the monthly mags that a group is trying to repatriate up to three RODs which ended up in Oz, at least one of which ran for a time on the L&Y and LNWR.

Even more possibilities if they manage to get one home!

Keith

Just had this reply from Bachmann:

"Thank you for your email.

This issue has already been raised and passed on to our Research & Development Team who are carrying out further research. I will forward your email also.

Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

Dennis Lovett

Public Relations Manager"

Looks like they were already aware of it, Maybe the person EDIT: Julian Evers who contacted MREMAG contacted Bachmann as well.

Keith

The problem that the number 3099 causes as far as I can see is twofold:

1) wrong colour - should be black.

2) Very short life - the second 3099 lasted 4 years.

Choosing a low number 3000-49 and carefully researching the subject would give a choice of loco with approximately 25 or more years of service on the "Western" and could be presented in several GWR livery periods. I assume some must have received a roundel after the initial green paint and "Great Western" and possibly also "GWR" before BR days and black again.

Keith

If Bachmann can correct this in time then I'm sure they will - 'sinon', then this will be a renumbering exercise... whatever, I'm not cancelling my pre-order... dilbert

Hi Dilbert

By the general lack of interest this post has seems to have aroused (Only 200+ views) it makes you wonder just how many GWR RODs will be sold!

Keith

You should drop a note off to Bachmann about this... when Bachmann released the Hall (49xx) models there was at one point in time a release proposed for 'Langton Hall'. This was never produced due to the fact that detail/livery information that Bachmann received at a later date corrected the info that Bachmann had - they eventually replaced the proposed model with a different member of the class - in this case it was 'Sketty Hall'.

 

Definitely worth contacting Bachmann about this apparent anomaly... dilbert

Hi Dilbert

After I posted I realised Bachmann had a "contact us" e-mail facility and sent off my concerns.

I've got a GWR green example on pre-order but I hadn't twigged that 3099 was to be the green one!

Keith

Hi all.

I've tried doing a search so forgive me if this has been brought up before.

The ROD in "Great Western" green livery is proposed to be 3099.

According to RCTS this loco number (either of the two which carried it) never was green, it was always black and is a short lived engine. The second 3099 went in 1929.

The first GWR 3099 was a hired engine (works number RS 3766, ROD 1739) but was returned to the Government in 1922 and later sold to the LNER becoming their 6308.

The later 3099 was from the batch of locos which the GWR bought S/H (works number NBL 22214, ROD 2124)

According to RCTS (much simplified) latterly there were three groups of 'ROD's, 3000-3019 purchased almost new and fully westernised,

the others two groups were formed from 80 engines purchased S/H. The best 30 were westernised and numbered 3020-49 and the rest were touched up and ran until they failed and carried 3050-99, the latter batch were always black.

The first two batches generally lasted into BR times apart from a few that went just before nationalization.

The 3050-99 batch had all gone by 1931.

So why is Bachmann doing 3099 in "Great Western" livery and painted green?

Keith

Back in 66 or 67, I was hauled from Manchester Exchange to Leeds (on a Lpool - Newc) behind a Sulzer type 4, inside which was coupled a Caprotti standard 5 to provide heating. The 5 was the Exchange pilot and was very low on water when it got to Leeds!

On the ex GWR lines the kettle was normally used for the assisting power, not just as a heater!

The occasions I saw steam + diesel, always with the steam on front, were in the summer in Cornwall.

From what I can recall, a Hall or Grange in front of a Warship or a pair of D6300s wasn't unusual during the steam/diesel changeover period.

Keith

There is one in Interlaken, close to Interlaken West which I thought was fairly good:

"Modelleisenbahn-Treff, Interlaken"

It moved from it's previous location to a new one in Rugensparkstrasse in 2004.

Can't find any info unfortunately.

I had a town map of Keswick, Cumbria for the 1960s and there was a "Model Railway Exhibition" marked in the town centre. Anybody remember it? What was it like?

Keith

 

Keith, when the Dreamliner finally enters service (it's very late), it's highly unlikely you'll see it on the Birmingham - Paris route.

Economical cruising altitude varies according to a number of factors, including aircraft type. Believe me, the aircraft that are used on that service (RJ85, ERJ195, DHC8-Q400 plus the occasional A318/319) cruise at economical Flight Levels.

I don't expect to see a Dreamliner in Birmingham unless they end up on a Transatlantic turn.

The impression that I get, maybe mistaken, that aircraft like the Dreamliner are going to save lots of fuel cruising at Mach 0.85 at 36000 ft or so, for long periods, compared to that used by earlier generations of jets. The longer the journey the more economical it becomes per passenger/km. Less fuel can be saved pro-rata on short journeys where the fuel guzzling climb is a major part of the journey. That is where savings are going to be harder to gain and where it seems the train has the best chance of competing.

I can't remember which aircraft I went to Paris on, it might even have been in the late 80's but it did not seem to reach a cruising altitude at all, it seemed to be on a long gradual climb until somewhere over the SE of England and then throttle back and an equally slow decent.

On long haul flights to Asia, Africa and the US, (all from Heathrow admittedly) the climb seemed quicker and to a higher altitude and then cruised for a long period until throttle back for decent. Maybe things have changed significantly in more recent times!

Keith

 

Don't forget London City Airport, which although much smaller than the other London airports is doing very well indeed.

 

 

 

The plan includes a Birmingham International Parkway station, unfortunately it's situated a fair way from the airport and the present Birmingham International station (the proposed site is on the other side of the M42).

However the plan includes a rail people mover/ transit system to link the new station to both. There will be no need to go via central Birmingham coming from the London direction.

 

 

 

Only on very short hops, but Birmingham to Paris is not a good example (aircraft general climb to and fly at normal cruising levels).

Paris to Birmingham is a better example though (for reasons I won't go into) but although the aircraft generally fly slightly lower than in the other direction, they still use economical cruising levels for the fuel efficient aircraft that are used on that route.

In both directions, the aircraft are at their cruising levels for at least a third of the flight time. It would be for longer if they used faster climbing aircraft, or if they burned more gas in the climb (however that's wasteful).

 

I forgot about London City, that would make Birmingham sixth!

I hadn't appreciated how close the station was to the airport, even though I downloaded a copy of the originally published maps (first editions).

It would still add time to the checkin but then again all the other airports have transfer times as well.

The aircraft cruising heights on flights such as B'ham-Paris-B'ham still do not reach what I understand is the most economical height (unless they do now as I haven't been since the '90s), namely 30000+ feet which is where an aircraft such as the previously mentioned Dreamliner would be at it's best.

Keith

Hey Keith..........you were right...!!!!

 

Why did I think it wouldnt go I wonder, it fairly flew in, as you say, at an angle.

 

Thanks for pushing me that way.......its running round perfectly.

 

Cheers,..................Bob.

A satisfactory conclusion then.

At first glance it does look too tight.

The problem I had was initially not finding the screw under the footplate and trying to force the body off. A quick call to Bachmann service pointed me in the right direction!

Keith

Your doomsday post makes you think just what will happen in the future will will we be using horses and carts for local journeys something I will not complain about.Aircaft are becoming more fuel efficient look at Boeings Dreamliner a very safisticated peice of kit ,railways are going to have to be in the same ball park to survive.The events happening at this moment should be concentrating the minds of those in power or not as may be be the the actual situation.HS2 is becoming a real necisity as you will see Ihave revised my views on the project I agree that it will free up capacity on other lines a good thing.Your posts have a a great del of detail and I am finding them useful thanks Ron Ron.

Surely the Dreamliner scores in it's long distance cruising ability, Short hops down country would not be it's forte so the train will still have the advantage. Those of you that have done a short hop will have noticed that aircraft don't reach (economical) cruising height before having to descend. Birmingham to Paris is like that.

Edit: I noticed that Boeing still quote all their sizes first in US units and the cabin is 226" I can't visualise that at all!

Keith

 

Current new aircraft use between 5 and 15% less fuel than those delivered a decade ago (the baseline for most of the anti-aviation environmental data, although a lot of it is even more out of date) and the next generation of airframes and engines will see a further 10 to 15% reduction. Beyond that there are ambitious plans for up to a further 40% saving by 2030.

Couple that to improvements in infrastructure and the operational environment (ground handling, air traffic management and operating techniques) which are expected to yield 10 to 15% savings on fuel and emissions within the next few years.

 

Aircraft use untaxed fuel and it cannot be allowed to continue. If they had to pay a reasonable rate short haul flights would be dead in the water.

All other modes of passenger transport AFAIK have to pay tax on their fuel, which gives the airlines an unfair advantage.

As an aside BBC Midlands Today has been running a story about Birmingham Airport becoming London's "fourth" airport. Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted and Luton anybody. That's four already! Anyway it is based on the claimed travel time from Central London to Birmingham Airport of 39 minutes, much less than the "Fly The Tube" to Heathrow.

They didn't explain how they got that figure, as HS2 misses the airport by a mile one would have to get from the HS2 station across to New Street and get a train back out to Birmingham International. That would add quite a bit of time.

Keith

The impact of rising oil prices and diminishing supply will be far more widespread than simply putting up the price at the petrol pump.

 

The world runs on an oil based economy, where almost everything relies on it. The effect of falling production and rising prices will have a much more profound effect on all our lives.

 

And very little seems to be being done to cope with it.

People still profess their "right" to buy gas guzzling cars, use high energy consumption products (both in manufacture and use) and lead generally profligate lives.

There was a recent report from America where some Republicans said they would fight to the death to preserve "their way of life", over President Obama's more environmental agenda. To me it came across as total wasteful arrogance.

Little do they appreciate (or want to appreciate) it is their children or children's children who will have to cope with the consequences.

I think that airlines generally have had a pretty easy time of it in the past due to government policies and I think that will change in the future when the oil really starts to run out. Short haul flights will be considered an anathema as the diminishing fuel is reserved for 'more essential' long haul business.

All surface transport can use alternate forms of energy but there seems to be at present no alternative to kerosene for aircraft and little meaningful research on the problem.

Keith

I offered the body up after plugging in a TCS DP2X UK last night, but the decoder width is too wide to pass through the gap in the bottom of the boiler.

 

Do I need to try again are suggesting.???

 

It looked a complete non starter, but you have got me thinking....I shall give it another go.

 

Bob

I think it was a bit tight but the body went back on with a bit of a wiggle as far as I can recall. Try offering it up at a slight angle so one side of the pcb goes in then the other.

I definitely got one inside my Crab!

The one loco I have where a weight needs to be removed and is designed to be is the Hall.

Keith

Try "Maunsell's SR Steam Carriage Stock" by David Gould (Oakwood Press X37) £9.95.

It has quite a bit of info on sets plus photos and drawings of several types.

It only covers the Maunsell stock as per title, but includes use into BR period.

Worth a look.

Keith

Some posters have said that HS2 would not be able to compete with low cost airlines on the longer distances.

Nobody seems to have mentioned that in 2025 or whenever HS2 gets built there might not be any low cost airlines.

Remember, they operate using relatively plentiful (at present) low cost fuel. However nowadays the amount of new oil reserves being found (and at higher cost) does not cover the amount being used each year so we are in a downward spiral of diminishing reserves and rising prices.

A train uses electricity from whichever source is the most economical so has the edge long term.

Keith

Am I missing something?

I plugged a TCS DP2X-UK straight into the socket.

Why use anything else?

Keith

Thanks for that.

It does work out at about one loco every two years, I didn't realise they were shopped quite so often.

Cheers

Keith

Following on from the OP.

How often did tenders get changed around?

According to Stationmasters post the 8 wheeler had 8 locos from new in August 1931 up to Castle 5068 (photographed in 1948). That's a total of 8 locos in 17 or possibly less years.

That seems overly frequent.

Any ideas anybody?

Keith

8 wheel tender No. 2586 was built as an experiment in 1931 Over the years it ran with a number of locos and Brian Haresnape (although probably from Alec Swain's research) listed the following locos (in the order in which they had the tender) -

 

5919, 5001, 5032, 5071, 5049, 5017, 6951, 5068, 4043, 4093, 4918, and 5957

Doesn't mention 5904 which RCTS says was it's last allocation.

Keith

Hi Ian

This from RCTS and Russell:

Tender No. 2586 from 1931 (8 wheels) was withdrawn in Nov 1963 with Hall class 5904.

It had also been on 5086 5068, around nationalisation as I have photos of it in early BR -lettered "British Railways" in GWR typeface

also behind 5001 in "Great {crest} Western" livery.

Possibly others, but that is the best I can do.

Edit: according to O.S.Nock "it ran behind a number of Halls, Stars & Castles"

Edit again to correct typo with Castle 5068

Keith

Maybe Bachmann can re-issue any damaged in transit returns of their new Class 70 as a limited edition 70012, commissioned by Newport Docks!

Keith

Freightliner don't seem too bothered about everybody seeing their bent loco. I was half expecting it be tarpaulined over pretty smartish, rather like Rolls Royce motors used to be (years ago!) after being involved in accidents or breakdowns so that Joe Public never saw a grotty one!

Keith

i'd heard that differently - that as the DP2 project came to pass, it was easier and cheaper to add one more deltic bodyshell to the existing production run, as opposed to building an entirely new 'one-off' loco.

 

 

Apparently it was Deltic bodyshell No.18 in the production sequence.

Keith