markjj

The other thing that intrigues me is the support arrangement for the sand traps. In the upper frame (LH side?), the short LH support has a backing plate against the frame plate whereas none of the others has one. I also wonder why the support legs on the two frames are different lengths?

Dave.

Hello again Dave,

Sorry I didn't explain things regarding the sand trap brackets very well last night.. The result of too many glasses of wine earlier...

The supports for the sand traps are different on each side because one side carries the mechanism for the drain cock rodding. On the real thing the bracket is beefed up on one side with that additional support plate which I'm guessing is a solid casting or welded up bracket to stop the bracket twisting when the rods move. See the attached pictures and it might all make more sense. the additional support is as I said before cut off once the sand traps are fitted and the pipework soldered on. picture of the real loco borrowed from the book of the Ivatt 4mt, Instruction manual page from the MOK instructions I hope again Dave doesn't mind me sharing it here.

I forgot to add the MOK kits date back to around 1996 possibly earlier as this sheet in one of my kits has been updated and this is the revision date on it.

If you have a choice buy the MOK kit it's far superior the instructions are poor but there are several online builds which cover the pitfalls.

Downside is I don't think the MOK kit is available at the MO unless Dave has done another small run of them.

The other thing that intrigues me is the support arrangement for the sand traps. In the upper frame (LH side?), the short LH support has a backing plate against the frame plate whereas none of the others has one. I also wonder why the support legs on the two frames are different lengths?

Dave.

The support brackets are cut away after the sand gear is fitted. Dave has fitted them this way so they don't snap off.

See attached photo.

I forgot to add photos for reference only I'm sure Dave wouldn't mind me using them...

I'm in the process of putting the springs and hangers together but before I post the results, a short quiz.  Here are the frames again.....

 

 

Frames and Sanding Gear.jpg

 

Has anyone spotted my deliberate mistake/s?

 

 

Ray

A quick blast with a hot air/paint stripping gun will correct that Ray. They are a lot kinder than a blow lamp or sitting for ages with a soldering iron waiting for the solder to melt. They are also very good for soldering said bearings in lots of flux and a tiny ring of solder or solder paste.

Mark

 

I had a chat with Dave recently about bits that are missing or not clear. He sounded quite philosophical as he explained that the instructions are a bigger nightmare than the kit. No matter how hard you try, something gets missed. I have had no serious problems so far but the area that has caused me the most concern is the missing ribs on the tender coal space. I now know (courtesy of the posts above) which pieces they are but I now have to fit them with the tender fully assembled and a coat of primer on it. Clearly they should have been fitted before the tender skin was put on. I hope there is nothing missing from the sections on the motion as I have never built Walschaerts gear before!

 

With regard to the smokebox wrapper, I sent the boiler and wrapper (I think) back to MOK for them to roll as I don't have any rollers and nickel silver is not as easy to roll as brass.

 

I have started the loco and will post some bits and pieces later.

 

Ray

Hello Ray,

Yes Dave always admits his instructions are not his strongest point but his kits are always amazing. I often wonder how he creates such kits for the price if you compare them to many.

The valve gear is very well covered in the instructions you can also find many similar builds of other similar loco's on here and WT if you are a member. The Ivatt whilst not identical to the BR Standard 4 is very similar and there are several build a of them on here with lots of info on the valve gear etc.

Your tender missing parts can easily be fitted with superglue or araldite once you put coal in the tender it will reinforce the bottom end of them as they will be hidden.

One good thing with Dave's kits you can often tap him up to buy spare etches or castings if things go badly wrong so it's never a case of a scrapped kit even if you have to wait a while for him to get the bits in his after sales are brilliant.

I hope he keeps up the good work with his kits though and he manages to design a few more I just love the nickel silver and the way he designs them.

I have several of theses Ivatts to build and about 15 other MOK kits to.... I just don't get enough hours to build them though at the MO there is never enough hours in the day...

As Richard says above if you fancy some nice kits to go behind your Ivatt buy a MMP kit or two. The instructions are superb with excellent diagrams and descriptive text plus they do a lot of LMS kits if you are a LMS fan plus many more BR types. You won't build any of them in a weekend but you will get a beautiful highly detailed model to match your Ivatt.

Going back to your build I buy very fine low melt solder called Smart solder for building MOK kits. It is designed for repairing modern surface mount printed circuit boards. It has a special flux and contains 2% silver in its make up. It's not cheap but a roll goes a long way. As the solder is so fine it's very hard to put too much on. It also works well with any additional flux if you need more flow.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F131555950188

Now that's all sorted can we get back to what this post was originally about lol... I had kind of forgotten why I never post anything I build on forums but now I remember why.... ;-) ;-)

Please don't kick anyone off !!!!!!!!!!!

Especially Peter/PAD ;-)

Just a few notes on the tender build before I move on.

 

The instructions have quite a few errors. There is nothing that should catch an experienced builder out but sometimes you need to work things out before proceeding. There is nothing relating to the tender bunker strengthening ribs, nor is there anything on glazing. The fret does contain the ribs (see the posts above) and there are some frames included for the cab windows......just without guidance.

 

Keep an eye out for one small part of the etch that is for the loco. It is clearly marked but quite small so don't throw it away!

 

 

Loco Parts!.jpg

 

The ribs and glazing can wait for now.......so borrowing a line from Basil Fawlty, the hard work is done........now comes the difficult bit!

 

Ray

Ray all Dave's kits tend to be like this unfortunately. A lot of additions to the kits are added as needed but not always included in the instructions. I think the instructions are better than many though.

The worst kit for instructions has to be his 8f's now no longer part of the range. I think it was his first 0-gauge kit as the instructions are just A4 pages of text with very little detail but it still builds into an amazing model and still holds it's own against any other 8f kit.

All kits need a good level of knowledge of the prototype as there are so many minor variations even when things were meant to be standard.

It's the same with wagons you often got the same wagon built by many different builders all with subtle differences although they were built to the same drawings.

Are you going to start the loco now ?

Watch when you do the firebox wrapper if you do there should be lines marked on the etch fret when you do the bends but Dave has missed them off on my kits.

This may be a very silly question but have you got the rods on the right way round ? The reason I ask is because of the drive crank under the cab. The rods may be slightly different spacing at one end if this makes sense. It's also possible you may have a twisted chassis as it's formed from one piece have you checked the Conn rods line up with the axle ends with no wheels fitted.

Hello Ray

First of all I must commend you on your build so far it's looking lovely.

The missing ribs are parts no 130 x 4 off and parts no 131 x 2 off. These parts are hidden on the sheet 2 of 2 etch the smaller sheet. They are quite prominent when fitted but can easily be glued in place after. They are not in the instructions as you point out the reason I believe is that they may have been a later addition to the kit I'm sure I have read a comment on one of the early builds of this kit on one of the forums.

I hope you find the attached pictures useful.

I'm sorry to butt in on your thread but keep up the good work.

If you stick a photo of the offending door on here I will try to steer you in the right direction if I can as I have the book on the Ivatts which has been a great help to me so far.

Mark J

Cascamite wood glue works much better but it doesn't have a reversible feature as it's totally waterproof.

I got my 4 today from Hattons..

Nothing missing or broken all the couplings attached as well mine came by DPD though not Royal Mail. Apart from a few slightly wonky handrails they look very nice. Not much detail underneath but that's common on Dapol/lionheart stuff...

Hello Ray don't beat up the instructions too much... Dave has a habit of writing about things after the event... That's why it's a must to read the instructions though then back again.... It's very rare that he misses anything it may not come up in the right order though ;-)

Tungsten carbide drills work best you can find them on eBay in sets ;-)

When last listed on DJH website these went for £55 A pop wheels extra. I brought the last 6 riveted ones and 1 welded version. I have seen them go for £60-70 on eBay before... I'm keeping mine for an investment lol I'm sure one day they will earn me more than money in the bank will ;-)

I think the biggest reason was overstretching and trying to re-invent the wheel in a lot of cases. If you also look at the prices it's often things that no one else sells that command a higher price though...

The standard vans although you need to buy wheels and do the building work are pretty much comparable to a RTR one in price.

The additional cost comes from small batch production. Buy anything in bulk and it becomes cheaper. Go to your local DIY store and buy one piece of wood it won't be 1/6 of a pack of 6 price it will be a lot nearer 1/3. I'm guessing JLTRT would have had someone making large quantities of bits either in house or outside to make things more cost effective. I know a lot of other companies have to buy large amounts of castings to keep the costs down unless they produce everything themselves in house.

I doubt you will ever see the cheap prices again. That's why it went under before and why Pete eventually pulled the plug on subsidising things. I'm guessing they were relying on large volumes of sales to recover the costs but it never happened... If you want it and you want the ease of building things you have to pay for it or buy what few options there are in RTR now...

I think you will find Peco didn't take them on. I went for a factory visit just before Parkside shut and I know they were selling the old stocks of them off. I believe the conversation was that some were too obscure to make viable sales for a bigger company down south. I stand corrected if I got that wrong though...

The only Mark 1 to have a flatter profile to my knowledge was the GUV so it may not be a Mark 1 but I stand corrected if I'm wrong....

You need a tungsten carbide saw or PCB milling cutter. I used to make antenna for mobile phone masts, TV transmitters and other outside broadcast use from PCB material. These were often complex shapes which we cut out either with a saw very similar to a proxxon saw or a CNC operated PCB milling machine. The cutters we used can be brought reasonably cheaply on eBay they are tungsten carbide and often regrinds from PCB manufacturers.

Plastic weld is the best glue to use as they are made from ABS. I fit mine on the blank end of a drill I think it's 1.9mm dia then you can pull the drill out when it's set it holds everything straight and keeps the inside glue free. If you are doing a lot buy cheap pack of 10 drills then you can batch glue/clean up. It's a lot easier to get the end ring true that way as well as they are often a bit out of true.

Look at the new 128 gearbox metal on plastic gearbox another faux pas..... When will they learn.....

There is already an active group across the water in Fife if that's any help. They meet in Buckhaven just outside Kirkcaldy. I'm sure there is already another group on your side of the water to.