WillCav

A train driver doesn't generally have another train blocking sight of the signal - closest to eye for restrictive aspect is best. A car driver may have a bus / lorry in front - red at top is most visible above high vehicles. That's my understanding of why but other views may be available... Will

Hi Karhedron, I've tried a few books for you but not much concrete info I'm afraid. Russell GW miscellany vol 2 - nothing Russell GW coaches 1903-48 - nothing Russell GW coaches appendix vol 2 Fig 535 no. W3107 text suggests Guinness usage empty to Park Royal Fig 536 later B748830 (1949) also empty to Park Royal Fig 537 top view of B748830 Russell GW wagons - nothing Russell GW wagons appendix Fig 148 CWS road trailer 6 wheel no rotank Fig 149 top view of rotank used for Guinness. Captioned as 1731 but faint 3107 on cross member (same vehicle as fig 535 in appendix vol 2) Figs 150/1 4w trailer (no diary markings) being loaded onto 2501 rotank Figs 152/3 4w trailer (no dairy) on 2503 Fig 154 4w trailer (no dairy) on 2501 1932 photo Fig 156 2 x United Dairies 4w trailers on rotanks with no numbers visible 1935 pic Russell freight wagons and loads of GW - nothing - it was a long shot! I haven't found any info on diagram numbers in any of the above - so probably not what you wanted. It does confirm your UD rotank and gives the option of a Guinness one (no picture of the trailer though). Will

Thanks Penrhos, I've now found a picture in the Russell's freight wagons and loads of one from the last lot and it is DC braked. So I think you are right and they were all built as DC braked. I was panicking as I've just finished building one from the last lot with DC, butnow think it's probably right. Thanks again Will

Hi all, Just a quick lunchtime question on N27 wagons. Atkins Beard etc show this as DC brakes in the text, the diagram and the photo (wagon from the first lot). There is only one preserved that I can find (at Severn Valley Railway 83831) but this has a Morton brake. Were some of them converted later on, or were some lots built with them? Thanks Will

Please continue Stationmaster, This is all really interesting and will hopefully allow many of us to do things properly on our layouts. Thanks Will P.s. ever thought of writing a book?

Many thanks Stationmaster, That's all going to be very useful. I haven't got info on empty stock moves but plan to use the two short sidings for local services overnight, with locos going on shed. I can use your info to ensure I follow the rules. I'm thinking of adding more operational interest by adding / removing tail traffic at the station - the down siding has an end dock so I'm thinking some Damos and Loriots might get some use. Adding it to the back of an down express would be tricky as it will involve a run round and shunt via Malvern Road West. Thanks again for your assistance. Will

Thanks Paul, I forgot about your photos. Thanks for providing such a useful resource for us all. Will

Hi all, I've recently bought some Chivers 4mm P23 ballast wagon kits. They come with vacuum cylinders and 4 brake shoes - is this right? I can't find any pictures of one and other ballast wagons of similar vintage seem to be 2 shoes non-vac. I assume the same arrangement would be on the earlier P17 Dean/Churchward brakes variant? Thanks Will

I've got another query on absolute block - specifically Malvern Road again. I've been reading David J Smith's GWR signalling practice and hadn't picked up before about night indications of subsidiary signals. I therefore assume that (going along DM & siding) 27 would be white/green, 8 red/green. What about 10? A long train reversing at Malvern road east signal A could be past 10 so would it be r/g? Also, would it be possible to send a train from 10 towards A? Reading about blocking back outside home signal, we haven't got the space to have a clear half mile from the shunt move. Is there any way it could be done - or did a move from the Down Siding HAVE to continue along DM towards Lansdown? Thanks for looking Will

Would the distant signals 19 & 20 be on the same lever? Not saying it's wrong, just asking. Will

There's good info on the dimensions of both the mainline and shed exit ramps in the recent book by David J Smith if anyone needs to make any. Will

Thanks everyone for your input on this. I'll make sure I have the steep end pointing in the normal direction of travel. The wrong direction signalled move would be starting from rest, so low speed over ramp. With Single Line Working, speed is low as well. Thanks again Will

Hi all, I've been reading up on GWR ATC ramps as I've found one on a photo and I'm not 100% why it was there. One book says 200yds behind the distant, whereas the other two say 1/4 mile back. I assume the 200yds was confused with AWS positions. the scenario I have found is the ramp is beyond pointwork beyond an inner (slotted) distant - but the line is bidirectionally signalled with a turn back move starting the other side of the ATC ramp. David J Smith's book says that a slotted outer distant has its ramp 20yds beyond the signal. Were slotted inner distants ever fitted with ATC ramps? Would a fixed outer distant on approach make a difference to the ATC arrangement? The actual ramp was between signal 'A' and 32(a) pts at Cheltenham Malvern Road East. Thanks Will

They are often used for 3 to 4 aspect transitions as well. They are known as Wiltshire distants in NR. Rarest one is a YGY combined with splitting distant just past West Drayton on the Up Relief. Will

If you do move junction signals 1-3, be careful of trains from the branch clipping the front of one stationary at the junction signal. Parallel to shunt signal 12 would prevent this but you will lose about a turnout's length of useable platform. Will

Paul, No worries with going off topic - it all adds and gives a more rounded picture of the real railway. Will

Having another look at the photo in the book, I agree that line 3 is italic and it looks like GWR on the bottom line, but there isn't space for 'when' - is there a dropper after GWR - could it be? | WOLVER|HAMPTON | | STORES |to be returned to| | WOLVER | HAMPTON | | | GWRy empty | Will

Hi Brighty, Looks to me like: |WOLVER|HAMPTON| |STORES |to be returned to | |WOLVER|HAMPTON| | |When Empty| Where | is the location of a vertical metal framing Regards Will

Unfortunately, I only purchased the digital versions of St James and Malvern Road East and West from SRS, so I'm not 100% sure. If one lever, it could directly work the inner distant and the outer could use the inner distant arm repeat in the slotting circuit to prove the inner is off. Thanks Will

Thanks Stationmaster I'm thinking that this could be replicated if I use servos for the mechanisms with a much slower movement for the outer distants. That would give the right look, and it would contrast with the following signal where the timings would be simultaneous as all the inner distant servos as wire operated. Thanks for everyone's ideas on this Will

Thanks because, Michael and LNERGE. The video on YouTube seems to suggest about 5 seconds to clear and about a second to go to caution - really useful. Will

Hi All, I'm researching Cheltenham Spa Malvern Road (GWR/WR) as a layout based in 1948. The track layout from the next junction westwards was four-tracked in 1942-3 resulting in two of the Malvern Road West SB Down signals getting three distant signals each for Lansdown Jn - Kingham, Gloucester DR, Gloucester DM routes left to right. Here's the back of Malvern Road West Down Home (MR west 2) in 1960s (Kingham route distant arm removed by this stage) It looks like these (outer) distants are motor worked. I haven't found a clear picture of the section signal but SRS shows the (inner) distants at MR west 3 are wired. It doesn't help that the section signal was moved in the 1960s - probably to allow space for a DMU to reverse when the diesel fuelling road was added (but that is my conjecture). The original image from Gareth David's excellent Gloucestershire steam in the 1960s – RailwayWorld.net https://railwayworld.net/2020/06/13/gloucestershire-steam-in-the-1960s/ - I believe I am using a small crop of the photo under fair usage for research purposes - I will remove if requested to do so Is this to make the slotting less complicated as the outer distants here need MR west 2 (home) & 3 (section) signals and the relevant inner distant off before they can be allowed to show off? How would it actually move? Assuming one of the distant levers is reversed at Lansdown Jn, I think the order would be: - MR West home signal (2) cleared - MR West section signal (3) clears simultaneously with one of the inner distants (as physically slotted) - When section signal (3) is arm proved off, motored outer distant can start to moves off? Does that sound about right? If it is, it will need some clever electrickery to mimic that! How long did a motor worked signal take to move compared to a signaller working a lever? Thanks for assisting - why did I choose to model a location that was closed before I was born! Will

BR(W) steam loco livery 1948-64 (gwr.org.uk) is my go to page for this info - none listed in either Egyptian slab serif or the plainer sans serif lettering on 28xx/38xx. Sorry if you've already found this - but it may be useful for other classes. Will

He's a bit of an LNER fan - does that help? Will

I started out on the railway in timetabling - firstly WTT for Bristol-Penzance. I was taught to use train graphs and found them very intuitive. I then moved to do the Paddington area. I was told by my new boss that I wouldn't be able to use graphs there as it is 4 track. It was not a problem. I found it easier to spot issues on a graph than on timetables. In other news, I went for a socially distant walk with a colleague in Cheltenham yesterday (someone you know, 5barvt). We knew there wasn't much left - but the retaining walls and bridges are still there. We spotted a white painted area on the West end bridge. In the 1960 signalling plan, there is no signal there. I did some digging, a signal post is shown there on 1925 OS 25" map. Looking at Britain from the air 1947 - it looks like the section signal (3) with 3 x Landsdown distants was before the bridge. My guess is that the signal was moved to allow longer DMUs to shunt from the 'new' diesel facilities in Malvern Road towards St James. I'll have to update my signal diagram (and another complicated signal needs building). Thanks for all your comment and help everyone. Will