WillCav

The line drawing on the box and for kit 7015 shows DC1 brakes - don't know if it can be built with single sided lever instead as I work in 4mm so I've never built that kit. Will

Could it be the Cooper Craft / Slaters one? If so, it is an undiagrammed early one. Will

No worries MIB, I think I've seen the same photos. Looking forward to seeing your pump van Will

I've had a go. It was one of the Lima ones and the plastic was quite easy to carve. I used a craft knife and files. I added some plasticard straps over the tank. Here's the result - still need to put some transfers on and weather it. The DC brake gear was a spare Parkside one that I saved when I built a Z2 as a Z3 with Morton brake. It's not anywhere as detailed as the brass kits but hopefully gives the impression of a different milk tank. Will

Thanks Karhedron, Left hand side it is then.

I'm planning to carve off the long levers and add some spare dc levers and v hangers from kits. It won't be perfect but hopefully it'll pass the 3' rule!

Hi all, I'm trying to build a number of GWR milk tanks for a milk train. I've got some really nice tank owner plates from Rumney Models and I want to get the wagon as correct as possible. Luckily, there is a photo in GW Wagons Appendix by Russell of the very wagon - but when built. It had vertical sections between the solebars and the base of the tank with the number, G W and tare weight. This doesn't appear on many later tank types. 1. Do the vertical 'boards' stay the whole life of the wagon? 2. Which side if the ladder did Express Dairy put their plates? Thanks Will

Agreed - got to be AA2 or AA3. Just checked Atkins Beard etc. AA2 was the same body as AA3 but with heavier axleboxes and springs. Difficult to spot on these pictures.

Andy, It looks like a 20' toad from that angle. The ten diagrams that were the 20' toads were AA1-6, 9, 10, 12 & 14. I think we can discount tunnel, P-way and ballast Van's, which leaves AA1-3. AA1 6w goods brake van 62 built 1900-02 AA2 4w goods brake van 278 built 1902-10 AA3 4w goods brake van 840 built 1889-1901 I'll have to dig out some books to see the difference between AA2 and AA3 which it is more likely to be by numbers built. I'm not sure if I want to call it as definitely a 4wheel van - that platform is right in the way. Hope this helps Will

Johnster, Just looked in Russell and it says it should be 61'2" (60' + bow ends) so your coach isn't 3' too long. You could make one easily with 3 b set coaches cutting at the door lines, but that would be a waste unless they were dirt cheap. What were those coaches used for? And which bogies did they sit on? There's not much info in Russell. Thanks Will

On the GWR, they quite often used 2 blocks on unfitted and 4 blocks on vacuum fitted wagons. This practice was not 100% adhered to but generally applied to both Morton braked and earlier DC braked wagons. Did this apply to other companies? Will

How about pinning down brakes - could the position of safety be on the opposite side at the top and bottom of the hill?

I used to be in timetabling in the early 2000s. Many of the rules for headcodes had been around for decades (as had many of my very knowledgeable colleagues). Cross border trains from one region to another had a specific letter as below depending on the region of its destination Western V Southern O Eastern E Scotland S Midland M Other letters were used for trains starting and terminating in the same region. Some letters were not used in various areas as some train describers couldn't show some letters - I was led to believe that was why W wasn't used for western. So 6B07 being a Weymouth train would be unlikely. Thanks Will

I don't know the answer - and I am looking forward to the suggestions. My guess is it be security? Less opportunity for a trespasser to release the brakes on a stabled wagon? Will

Also need to add different bogie centres - 35' or 34'6". Note that Lima use about 33'3" centres and if you change to 9' bogies, they can colour the DC brake gear - another thing to correct in the Lima - oh dear! Will

Just says general traffic and Harris traffic for the two sections. There were 5 Siphon Cs for Penzance 1919 earliest, some used for Harris sausage traffic late 30s onwards. Will

The Slinn book has brandings. In 1947, only 5 Siphon Fs remained. None branded west country - 3 unbranded. More variety with Siphon Cs. A few Non-sausage traffic branded Penzance in 1920s (would it still be branded Iike that in 1940s?) Closest for Sausages was Calne to Bristol Temple Meads. If you want numbers for any of these then let me know and I'll dig them out. Will

O33s really are a minefield! • 2 different brake systems • 4 different planking widths • Conversions to ambulance / O59 / M34 / enparts / newspapers etc • 7' , 8'6" and 9' bogies • Gas / electric lighting • multiple livery options I don't think we'll ever know the whole history of all of them. It's just a shame that Lima chose the wider planking version. Will

Pete, I've heard 7 years as an typical repaint schedule for a coach - so 1937 for a 1930 build going to monogram. I had to paint out the old number on a lima siphon as trying to remove the printing revealed a hint of creamy plastic underneath - so you may end up re-painting all the brown to get an even colour. Depending on how far you want to take it - the tare weight is affected by the bogie change (but closer than the Mainline Siphon G which has a tare weight 5 tons out). I'll have a look in the Slinn book later - there's a few photos of that lot and one might have a monogram and 7' bogies. Will

John, There is a photo in Slinn (plate 55?) of 2070 with American bogies - this was the last one of lot 1441 and was converted to O59 post WWII. That is the only picture I have found of one with American bogies. Thanks for the additional info (added to the table). Unfortunately, it mixes up the variations on the last lot even more - I think if you add the planking variations, conversions, bogies and underframe all together, it makes the old "copy a photo" the safest way forward. thanks Will

Pete, I've checked bogies for you - 7' bogies were fitted to all of lot 1441 as new but none of lot 1578, which were 9' pressed steel or leftover 8'6" from articulated stock. If you're doing pre WWII, you don't need to worry about any being converted to ambulance trains / O59 / M34, they will all still be O33. Will

The other option for a DC handbrake one is 2782. The new body in 1945 could have been a 6 plank version - or you can just invoke rule 1.

Totally agree Chris, I've already made 2937 from a Lima model by chopping the DC off, adding a kit spare lever brake on each side - and changing the bogies. It's not perfect but it's better than what was in the Lima box. Will

Hi All, A while ago, I found the useful information on making RTR Siphons more accurate on GWR.org. I probably wouldn't have spotted that the planking was wider on the Lima version than the 'regular' O33. I brought the Slinn book on Siphons to get more information but it doesn't say which numbers were built with wider planking. I thought I would do some research on them. I'll share it here in case it helps others. I found that the easiest way to check the planking width was to look at the panels at each end - the 'standard' planking looks like this with 7 planks (about 6½" wide) between the corner post and the door frame. The Lima version has 6 x 7¼". I have also found two narrower versions, 8 x 5½" and 10 x 4½". Note: many of these were converted to O59 (O33 with shell vents) or M34 (O33 with shell vents, windows and steel plating over most louvres). Bogies are another variable with a number of different types. These tables are purely looking at the planking. Slinn has all the details of which had what bogies and which were converted. Looking at all the photos I could find yielded the following results: Lot 1441 - Nos 2052-2070 (20) Number Built Planks Photo Ref 2057 Aug-30 7 (6½") Slinn 2062 Oct-30 7 (6½") Slinn 2067 Nov-30 7 (6½") Slinn 2069 Nov-30 7 (6½") RCTS photo 2070 Dec-30 7 (6½") Slinn Lot 1578 - Nos 2751-2800 (50) Number Built Planks Photo Ref 2756 Oct-36 7 (6½") Paul Bartlett Photo 2758 Oct-36 7 (6½") Russell Appendix 2774 Nov-36 7 (6½") Paul Bartlett Photo 2775 Nov-36 7 (6½") Internet search, preserved Shildon 2782 Dec-36 7 (6½") original body, Russell (New body 1945) 2792 Jan-37 7 (6½") Russell Coaches 2796 Jan-37 7 (6½") Russell Appendix, Preserved Didcot 2800 May-37 7 (6½") Paul Bartlett Photo Lot 1651 - Nos 2917-2931 (15) Number Built Planks Photo Ref 2926 Apr-40 7 (6½") Internet search, preserved SVR 2927 Apr-40 7 (6½") Warwickshire mrb14 - buffer stop accident BR time 2930 May-40 7 (6½") Slinn Lot 1664 - Nos 2937-2946 & 2975-2994 (30) Number Built Planks Photo Ref 2937 Sep-44 6 (7¼") Russell Appendix, Planking as per Lima body 2938 Sep-44 10 (4½") BR Maroon (John Lewis) later 6 or 7 - not clear (Photo on RMWeb - BR Blue 1975) 2940 Oct-44 7 (6½") Paul Bartlett Photo (1979) 2942 Oct-44 10 (4½") Slinn 2943 Nov-44 6 (7¼") Internet search, preserved Long Marston 2975 Dec-44 7 (6½") John Lewis 2980 Feb-45 10 (4½") Paul Bartlett Photo, Preserved WSR 2981 Feb-45 7? Slinn planking not clear 2983 Feb-45 8 (5½") Internet search, preserved Toddington 2988 Mar-45 8 or 10 - not clear Preserved? Badly damaged Dean Forest 2992 Apr-45 8 (5½") Russell Coaches, Preserved but destroyed by fire 2994 May-45 8 (5½") Internet search, preserved Bodmin I think we are safe to assume that the first three lots were all built as 7 plank. Lot 1664 gets very messy. It may be that 2940 was re-planked at some time before 1979. It looks like they used whatever width planking they could get hold of during WWII. The only two Siphons I have found that the Lima body can be used for are 2937 and 2943 - but the underframe is wrong for both as lot 1664 was lever brake, not Dean Churchward. Has anyone got any other pictures of O33/O59/M34s that can fill in the gaps in lot 1664? Thanks Will

I would keep the coaling stage line joining the turntable as that's how the GWR layouts generally worked. The dead end line adjacent was for ash wagons I think? I would add a trap point at the bottom of the coaling stage hill. Is that a pit by the stage? Wouldn't it get filled up with coal that missed the target? Other than that - it looks GWR in style. Will