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10800

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Blog Entries posted by 10800

  1. 10800
    John and I had been thinking about Balcombe as a modular end-to-end layout on which we could run full-length EMUs etc including a representation of the Ouse Viaduct. I then thought about the attraction of seeing these trains snake over some nice P4 trackwork, and Lewes floated into my head again, as it is wont to on occasions like this.
     
    So, having Templotted Balcombe
     

     
    (OS map is over 50 years old so out of copyright)
     
    I then had a go at Lewes - 'just for a bit of fun' you understand
     

     
    and thought wouldn't it be great to join this on to Balcombe and see those trains traverse the junctions from the London end to the Newhaven end and vice-versa? But then it would leave two stub ends and a possible lost opportunity to run trains on the route between the Oxted lines and Brighton. So, in a moment of inspiration/madness I came up with the following 'structure' which would enable all four lines at Lewes to be used.
     

     
    The "Brighton" fiddle yard is double-ended, so that it can receive trains from the Oxted lines via Lewes, and also Brighton-bound trains on the main line which would 'disappear' after crossing the viaduct.
     
    Still with us? People who know my background might guess what's coming next - instead of just having a fiddle yard for the Oxted lines, what about joining the Eridge layout on? And so I arrived at
     

     
    Now to have all these joined together in an exhibition would be a fairly gargantuan affair, but we're quite serious at having a go at this (the Eridge team think we're mad, but haven't said no in principle - we'd use the Eridge stock in any case! ). Baseboards for Balcombe itself are being designed, and I'm planning on getting started on the trackwork in Lewes later this year just to get some momentum going.
     
    Should all keep us busy for a while!
  2. 10800
    Since it's my namesake it really was about time I started on this Dave Alexander whitemetal kit of the prototype Bo-Bo that later became 'Hawk'. This is for Eridge, since the real thing spent a year or so on the Central Section of the Southern Region in 1952 or thereabouts, and I have photos of it on Victoria-Brighton via Eridge services with a Maunsell set in tow.
     
    Last weekend I had the opportunity for a few hours modelling (Jubilee open day at the community hall where DRAG meets) so I thought I'd make a start on 10800.
     
    First thing was to remove the lower set of louvres from the main bonnet sides, as these only came along after it left the Southern. No real magic here, just a sharp cabinet maker's chisel of the right width (to avoid surrounding hinge and seam detail) followed by rubbing down with a small piece of wet-and-dry on the end of my finger.
     

     
    (it's aberration on the camera lens, not curved sides!)
     
    The main footplate halves were soldered together with the bogie pivot plate, and the cab added. It's a while since I've done any whitemetal soldering, but the castings in this kit are excellent and fit together very well, so filling later will be minimal. There are two versions of the cab sides provided, one pair plain and one with a shutter - I stupidly didn't have any photos with me so I chose the plain sides, this being a better option if I got it wrong than having to carve off the shutters. I did get it wrong, but it will be simple to do a plasticard add-on for the shutters (which will give better relief anyway).
     

     

     

     

  3. 10800
    The first part-finished section of the viaduct made its inaugural public appearance at the RMWeb Taunton bash yesterday, including some powered running across it for the first time.
     
    Many thanks to John for all his hard work in getting it to this stage, not without its trials and tribulations, and to Pete for his help yesterday. It was gratifying to receive some positive feedback and encouragement based on what we had done so far, but also a reminder on how much more there was still to do!
     
    Here are some pics though - it isn't finally glued up, so there is a little misalignment highlighted by the last photo, and a slight droop at one end which will be fixed by packing at the base before final and permanent assembly.
     

     

     

     

     

     

     

  4. 10800
    At DRAG last night we were able to see the full track laid for the first time, thanks to excellent work by John (Re6/6), and Pete had done some of the wiring looms so we could dispense with some of the twisty wires. Only one P4 and the 00 track powered up as yet, but we did have a kind of golden spike ceremony - on the left is an old Trix Standard 5 converted to P4 by the late Nigel Hunt, and on the right some GWR thing (whose pony truck seems to have run over the golden spike and fallen off ):
     

     
    We did manage a static line up across six tracks, heavily D&E oriented - 8CEP on the 00 track to the left, then four P4 running lines and the M7 on the loop to the right.
     

     
    Overall view with no gaps in the track
     

     
     
    And a chance to give my 8CEP a run out on the 00 track
     

     
    http://www.youtube.com/user/video10800?gl=GB&hl=en-GB#p/u/8/cS5hurP2jdQ
  5. 10800
    We think we've cracked the issue of how best to join sections together. The following photos show (using a couple of demonstration end sections and a 'real' pier) how it will work.
     
    Rather than have a separate detachable pier for the joins, which creates additional problems regarding planting in the scenery and so on, the pier will be 'half' attached to one end of the two sections to be joined.
     

     
    The dowel and the square-section pins provide for alignment. The pins have holes drilled into them so that when mated they can be locked with round pins pushed in from the top.
     

     

     
    The pins will be disguised by covering with cable ducting on the trackbed. A detachable refuge will be placed over the gap between the balustrades. A detachable 'batwing' shaped piece of brickwork will go over the join and extend to the crests of the adjacent arches to minimise visible joins.
  6. 10800
    I hope Mark won't mind me posting these, but I didn't even know he was doing this!
     
    Footbridge stairs by 3D printing, as part of the whole structure - photos speak for themselves really, amazing.
     

     

     

     

     

  7. 10800
    After the 'great lift' it was time to start fixing some of the balustrades, refuges and pavilions back onto the viaduct deck.
     
    Here are some shots from today of the two boards that we will be showing, about 40% of the total. Lengths of 7mm wide stripwood were temporarily glued with Copydex along the edge of the deck to allow the balustrades to be set at the right distance in from the edge; a simple jig was then used to set them in the right place with respect to the refuge outriggers. The refuges were then added after the alignment strip was removed.
     
    The end balustrades and pavilions are just Copydexed for the time being because the pavilions may need to be removed for final painting.
     
    The buttresses supporting the pavilions have also been extended outwards from their original too shallow construction.
     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     
    Quite a bit needs to be done in the next three weeks on further detailing and scenics - we should then be back to near where we were at Scaleforum but in a more finalised condition.
  8. 10800
    No compromise, no shortcuts - this is what we're building in 4mm. The real thing is over 440m long and up to 30m high, so the model will be about 20ft long.
     
    Here are some of my own photos from our initial field trip last November, but if you Google images under Ouse Viaduct, Ouse Valley Viaduct, or Balcombe Viaduct there are loads more, some of them showing the whole thing in one go.
     

     

     

     

     

  9. 10800

    Platforms again

    By 10800,

    The old Eridge platforms were on a slightly different alignment to the new Mk2 Templotted version, so new ones have been made - and it's certainly nice to see them on the layout again!
     

     

     
    Meanwhile this nice little H class has appeared from somewhere
     

     
    Trackwork is nearly all finished, with just a bit of tidying up by the P Way Dept
     

  10. 10800
    After a very pleasant and productive planning session yesterday, interspersed with copious provisions provided by Mrs 10800, we're now virtually ready to go with the commissioned laser cutting of the fiddly repetitive bits for the viaduct. Final tweaking of the specification and scope is going on with York Modelmaking today. The laser cutting work will comprise 74 balustrade sections with 19 arches in each; the main arch sections for the eight pavilions (semicircles on squares, very Renaissance); the main arches in units of six (limited by the laser cutting bed 900mm long); and the tapered pier sections which would be a pain to do 80-odd of consistently.
     
    The rectangular plinth sections we will do ourselves, partly because even we can cut rectangles consistently (the bandsaw helps) but also because we want those in 4mm MDF for structural strength - laser cutting won't do thicker than 3mm because it starts burning the MDF on the top side before it has cut through to the other side.
     
    We're looking to use embossed brick plasticard (5-6 m2 of it, so seeing if we can buy in A1 size rather than loads of A4 which would be expensive and involve a lot of joins). Next is the issue of all the details such as the arched brickwork, fancy moulding and the brackets supporting the refuges (see below). This will be done from a variety of brass etching, plastic strip, maybe doll's house type picture/dado rail stuff, and resin casting (any useful contacts for the doll's house stuff?).
     
    I've also just noticed that although the piers and sides are mainly English bond, the exposed brickwork under the arches is mostly stretcher bond with a few header courses thrown in.
     

     

     

  11. 10800
    Not a bit of it - now that Scaleforum with Matford is out of the way, and having received some more laser cut goodies from York Model Making, John (Re6/6) and I had a productive day today towards turning all the bits into more of a kit of parts prior to assembly.
     
    I got on with marking up the pier sections for the characteristic apertures of the Ouse Viaduct, which involved topographic profiles, Excel spreadsheets and some occasional reality checks. The apertures all start at the same top elevation but the bottom elevation is dependent on ground level and in the centre of the viaduct they extend into the plinth sections as well as the tapered upper piers.
     

     
    Here you can see the centre lines marked on some of the piers, together with top and bottom of the apertures and drill centre locations for the (41mm diameter) circular sections at the ends of the apertures.
     

     
    Meanwhile John was making jigs for batch assembly of the tapered piers
     

     
    And by the end of the day a trial cut for Pier 30 had been made
     

     
    This was our first real chance also to check on some of the latest pieces for the pavilions and refuges. Here you can see the two layers of 2mm MDF and some Rowmark 'frames' in order to represent the panelling relief on these concrete structures
     

     

     
    Finally we were able to lay the whole trackbed length out with the arches and some of the detailed bits, and to put a train down on it - which was somewhat dwarfed!
     

     

     
    But apart from the 'play' factor, this exercise was useful in spawning various ideas on construction, length of each section, joining, transportation, and so on.
     
    And what about the rest of the project? Well, just to prevent too much inertia setting in, the bits and pieces for 'Lewes Phase 1' were purchased at Scaleforum, which covers most of this section of the station - the main junctions - and which is planned to occupy some of the oncoming winter evenings productively. Better than 'X Factor' or 'Strictly' any day! This by the way is a section of the whole Templot layout printed (rails only) on A3 sheets and loosely assembled.
     

  12. 10800

    A trip round the circuit

    By 10800,

    Tonight's entertainment included plonking a Lumix TZ30 camera on a bogie well wagon and filming a trip around the outer P4 circuit on TT2. Two circuits in fact, one facing and one pointing backwards.
     
    The whole train (CK's) comprised wholly rigid wagons - no springing or compensation. There was quite a lot of other traffic running at the time too.
     

     

     
    How many trains, voices and faces can you identify?
  13. 10800

    New canopy structures

    By 10800,

    I can't claim any credit for the canopies themselves, just the mobile phone snaps - which at least enable 'ground level' photos to be easily achieved! After previous warping issues with wood and plasticard they have now been done in brass.
     
    Other progress continues, 2 boards are now successfully wired, and we can run trains over them (DCC now) without resorting to the dog-on-a-lead approach.
     
    I'll let the canopy photos speak for themselves:
     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     
    As the platforms are all one piece and 6ft long, they now have their own secure storage box when not on the layout.
     

  14. 10800
    It's been a while since the last update, but progress has continued nonetheless - even if not much of it has been by me (work just continues to get in the way). And John seems to have lost his ability to post to the blog directly (Andy is looking into it).
     
    After finishing off some of the outer piers (where the plinths don't come into play) John moved onto, or rather returned to, the inner ones. This is where the tapered piers are inset slightly on the rectilinear plinths, and we now seem to have arrived at a workable system of ensuring that the 'inset' is even all round. There are a couple of points that have caused a bit of a problem - irritation with one and Doh! with the other. The irritation comes from the Slaters brick card where the straightness of the brick courses can no longer be guaranteed and so squareness and matching of blocks of brick is a bit of a lottery - we can only assume the tool at Slaters is old and worn, in any event there is a market opportunity out there for an accurate replacment. The Doh! is because I forgot about the inset when arranging for the semi-circular etches, and the apertures are slightly narrower in the plinths - so we really should have had two sizes made. Never mind, there's always a workaround, especially when we can direct future photographers to ones we know are better than others! Yes we could have had more etches done or had all the brickwork laser etched to start with, but there are budgetary limits!
     

     

     
    Meanwhile, up in Kent, Mark has been busying himself with resin casting and 3D printing, the technology for which goes straight over the heads of John and myself. We just marvel at the results, and Mark deserves huge thanks for all his efforts here - largely spontaneously too.
     
    Firstly, we now have the resin cast roofs for the pavilions:
     

     
    And not one, but two options for the corbels, one in resin and the other 3D printed by Shapeways. Both are very good, but the crispness and Mark's sanity probably mean that we will go for a production run of the Shapeways version.
     
    This is the resin version:
     

     
    And this the 3D printed one:
     

     
    Finally, it has now reached the public domain via Scalefour News that the viaduct will form part of a themed demonstration on modelling BR (Southern) at Scaleforum at Leatherhead in September (24th and 25th). It won't be completely finished of course, but the objective is to have the whole basic structure up, with some run-ins at each end, and one end at least sceniced and detailed as far as we can. And some form of train movement will be available, even if one of the temporary tracks might be (sshhh) 00 for the occasion.
  15. 10800

    Pavilion roof Mk2

    By 10800,

    A few entries back I showed a 'completed' pavilion. But on returning to the viaduct for another recce a month or so ago, we found that the roof construction was somewhat different so it was back to the workbench for another go.
     
    The objective this time was to come up with something like this:
     

     
    So here is a photo sequence of how I did it:
     
    1) Build basic subframe (2 x 2mm Evergreen section)
     

     
    2) Attach 'under-roof' using 0.5mm plasticard - in black so you can see what you're doing more easily in the later stages
     

     

     
    3) Then with 0.5mm white plasticard build up the overlapping layers, starting with the longer sides
     

     

     

     
    With the shorter sides it was a case of measure > cut oversize > offer > trim > offer again > fix (sometimes with a bit of > throw away and start again) but it was still difficult to get the joins completely straight and flush, so
     
    4) Finally, I added 0.5mm Evergreen section along the corners to make it look neater
     

     
    And then with the main structure again
     

     
    The roof took a few hours altogether, including thinking time, and I'm planning now to use this as a master for resin casting rather than making another seven 'identical' ones.
  16. 10800
    I've now finished (I think) the first of the eight pavilions required for the viaduct, except for the painting which can wait until they're all done.
     
    I'm always supercritical of my own work (aren't we all?) but I'm quite pleased with this given there were no drawings available and access to measure was not a practicable option. It's not as detailed as the real thing, but in view of the scale of the whole model and the distance from which it is likely to be viewed I think it conveys the essence well enough. When painted I may use pencil lines to suggest some of the other panelled detail, we shall see.
     
    There are 69 individual pieces in this structure, made variously of MDF, limewood, Rowmark and other species of plasticard. The fiddliest bits by far were the decorative coving around the tops of the pillars, made from Evergreen 1.5 x 1.5mm angle with 0.5 x 0.5mm section set into it, then mitred to form a 90-degree L-shape. I hate roofs, and made this based on longitudinal and lateral plasticard formers underneath, but I still couldn't get a perfect join for the four sections - so I filled the gaps with more 0.5 x 0.5mm strip to make it look neater even if it's not authentic. Also there is a piece of 2mm angle on the top to represent a final ridge tile and hide the unsightly join of four pieces of Slaters! I might try a wraparound one-piece card substructure for the next one.
     

     

     
    And, to show that I know no fear, once again the real thing B)
     

     
    Another experimental item is this representation, again based on Evergreen sections of various kinds, of the decorative brick detail at the tops of the piers. We haven't ruled out resin casting entirely for this (decision tomorrow when we have a get-together with the Eridge team) but it is at least an achievable option.
     

     

  17. 10800
    Some snaps of some of the results of today in trial fittings of balustrades and refuges on the viaduct track base:
     

     

     

     

     
    And a couple of reminders of the real thing
     

     

     
    We're still thinking about how best to do the brackets
     
    So there will now be an awful lot of laminating of pairs of bits of 2mm MDF at 10800 towers - just the job to do on a work tray whilst watching the telly
     
    And we haven't forgotten about the coping and plinths for the balustrades
  18. 10800
    A bit more meat on the bone now from the previous 'vague' dimensions.
     
    We've dispensed with the idea of a common 'Brighton' fiddleyard fed from both the north and from the Lewes Brighton platform, mainly because of the tight curves needed to get to/from the latter. Instead we have a separate shorter fiddle yard of 8ft for 'Brighton' on the basis that through trains via Lewes would only be loco + 4 coaches + van from Eridge (which also assumes an 8ft FY) or short coast route trains from Eastbourne.
     
    We have also incorporated a 14ft hidden section between Lewes and the viaduct, which can simulate Lewes tunnel and also provide a couple of storage loops to 'hide' Brighton main line services. In exhibition this can also provide space on the front for information displays and even a 'time buffer' by holding trains for a minute or so to give an impression of greater distance travelled.
     

     
    If the full ensemble ever made it to fruition, we'd be looking at 126 ft top to bottom and 73 ft left to right. Just for context the main hall at Railex measures 160 ft x 120 ft (thanks David ).
     
    However, the beauty of this is that it can be built and/or exhibited in many configurations. The first component likely to see the light of day will be FY + scenic section + Balcombe + scenic section + viaduct + FY, totalling a mere 92 ft, or the first scenic section could be omitted to give 80 ft. This also assumes a new bespoke scale Ouse Viaduct - the current short-term one is only 8 ft long.
     
    Another alternative would be Brighton FY + Lewes + scenic + Eridge + FY, with additional FYs on the London and Eastbourne lines out of Lewes. Total 73 ft x 44 ft.
     
    We did lay out the 10% scale Templots for Balcombe (left distance), Lewes (front left) and Eridge (right) on the floor of John's garage, but it's difficult to judge the real scope from that:
     

     
    It will be DCC by the way (as Eridge is going) with the idea that a driver could walk with his train all the way from departure to arrival.
     
    Could be fun!
  19. 10800
    Well yes it is, just that due to working from the inside track out the first one onto the curve is the inner 00/P87 circuit. And we had to give something a powered run didn't we?
     

     

     
     
    Captain Kernow update - 10/11/09
     
    Of course, when the Traffic Department made their hasty request to run a train, the Electrical Engineering Department belatedly realised that none of the sections was electrically linked, so the Electrical Improvisation Committee was duely formed, with the single task of holding metallic objects across both sides of the copper clad sleepers at the board joints:
     






     
     
    As regards the use of Peco code 75 track, in preference to something finer scale, we opted not to use C&L, due to the flange-hitting-the-inside-of-the-chairs problem with some R-T-R OO flanges. We also felt it might not be as robust as something like Peco. For the same reasons, (robustness), we decided not to use SMP. Peco does highlight the difference between that type of R-T-R track and P4 quite nicely (meant in a non-elitist way). We could have used Exactoscale 'Fasttrack' for the OO as well, but given that the track constructions slaves esteemed DRAG colleagues assembling the rail onto the P4 stuff nearly revolted last night, when it seemed that their Statutory Tea and Biscuits may have been threatened by more demands from the PW Superintendant for finished track, it is probably just as well that we settled for Peco!....
     
    End of Captain Kernow update
  20. 10800
    A few recent photos to show we're still progressing on the Eridge rebuild.
     
    The southern (country) end of the layout. Those four tracks will converge into two before the fiddleyard, but how much further it will go is still a subject of discussion - there's another trailing crossover not far beyond, and more signals . I'm sure the trap point on the up loop (left hand track) should have appeared by now ...
     
    The platforms are dummy templates, and those canopies may need to be rebuilt because of the new alignments.
     

     
    Mike then brought out his 'new' Q1 - Hornby body, SE Finecast chassis - which pottered about with a pickup goods with Chivers brass Dancehall brake van.
     

     

     
    Back at the London end, Richard was busy with the outriggers for the scenic bits - looks like binoculars will be needed for watching the trains in the cutting!
     

     
    Finally, Mike was confident enough to bring out the bogie ballast train - Southwark Bridge LSWR brass kit and Cambrian plastic ones - and recklessly (but successfully) propelled them all into the up siding a few times. Very pleasing to watch! The board wiring isn't finished yet so driving is done by wires running straight to the motor - like taking the dog for a walk . Meanwhile Simon is adding yet more cosmetic chairs to the rivetted sections.
     

     

     
     
     
  21. 10800
    Another routine DRAG meeting last night, with both TT1 in use and work continuing on the trackwork on TT2. Here it looks like we've left CK on his own (not true, others were busy threading rail into trackbases etc )
     

     
     
    But meanwhile, John (Re6/6) had just taken delivery of his new Noch Grassmaster for Matford, and gave us a quick demo. The following pictures speak for themselves really, although it is difficult to convey the 3D effect on a 2D image.
     

     
     

     

     

     

     
    Now that's all very well as a basic demo of how it works, but it's a particularly bright green set of fibres with no (not yet) additional texture.
     
    John also showed us a demo board he had done earlier, but starting from a position of existing basic ground cover (which could be hanging basket liner, lint, carpet underlay or whatever). This next picture is the initial groundcover:
     

     
    Then with the Noch fibres added:
     

     
    And finally (after the PVA has set) after a good suck with the vacuum cleaner:
     

     
    Which gives a good base of rough ground for further detailing.
     
     
    Update from The Captain, Tuesday 27/10/09
     
    A few of my own photos from last night (apologies for quality, taken on camera phone).
     
    Brain Harrap (right) seemingly caught in mid-ballad.... Clearly, something doesn't seem quite right in this photo...

     
    Re6/6 had brought in a recent acquisition for us to admire, but someone forgot to remind him that we were only laying P4 and OO track that night....

     
    Mr F. Adder made a surprise but welcome appearance, and was immediately put to work on slave labour the important task of threading rail onto track bases. As usual, he did his modelling on his feet....

     
    This was clearly a source of some amusement....

     
    Peter Archard brought in his scratchbuilt 16XX pannier for a spin. We ran it on TT1 first, then laid a bit of spare track on TT2 as well.

  22. 10800
    This is a very preliminary and loose-fitting mockup of the carcasses of two of the piers and a section of arches - less than 1/12th of the whole thing. This was built entirely of 2mm MDF (apart from the spacer blocks!) to try one or two construction methods out. It's also convinced me more than ever to outsource as much of the repetitive cutting as possible for consistency, and not just the arch and decorative details.
     
    The piers are in two sections, a lower rectangular section plinth and an upper very slightly tapered (in both dimensions) pier, whose lowest section is slightly inset from the plinth. The junction between the two on the real thing is at a constant elevation, so because of the topography the amount of plinth exposed varies - at the ends there is none showing at all. These two piers are the tallest, with an additional couple of inches to bury in the scenery.
     
    The oval apertures always start at the same point at the top, but finish about 2m above the ground at the base, so they too vary with the topography, and extend into the plinths where they are exposed. These were done by drilling holes at each end with a Forstner bit and cutting between them with a jigsaw.
     

     

     

     
    And finally a convenient piece of foamboard with a Maunsell on for scale.
     

     
    Next job is to prepare drawings for getting quotes for laser cutting, and think of suitable jig designs for building the 36 piers precisely!
  23. 10800
    Inspiring (or daunting) as the whole thing might be, we will obviously be taking this a step at a time with a view to proving the concept in exhibition conditions with just some of the possible whole.
     
    Balcombe itself will be first, with the viaduct, and a fiddleyard each end. The fiddle yards will need to be able to accommodate 12 coach EMUs so will have to be around 12 ft long each, so that's the length of four shunting planks before we even get to the scenery! Uncompressed, Balcombe is about 30ft long, although that could be reduced by up to 6ft by shortening the refuge sidings. The Ouse Viaduct section would be about 20ft I should think, so even a basic set up would be about 70ft long.
     
    Just for reference, Eridge is a similar length to Balcombe, plus a 6-8ft fiddleyard at the end (both ends when operated on its own), but would be at right angles to the rest because of Lewes. To see what a 30ft layout looks like, here's a shot of Eridge Mk1 in an early exhibition incarnation, and Mk2 under construction (both foreshortened by the camera).
     

     

     
    Lewes is fairly compact at about 22ft long, although all the real action takes place in about 16ft. But you start to get an idea of how big an 'L' would be needed for the Full Monty set-up.
  24. 10800
    Just had to use that lovely word lacuna!
     
    I've just had some 1:2500 map sections courtesy of West Sussex CC archives, unfortunately there is nothing between 1910 and the 1970s so more research needed to verify the 1950s condition.
  25. 10800
    Although I haven't started building the layout yet (next month maybe?) I have been assembling a few trains to run on it, especially some reasonable length ones, and here's a couple of them (straight from the box, no weathering yet or replacement couplings).
     
    (Note that in these photos the trains are more or less plonked on temporary track - the DB is on 00 track on the new DRAG TT2, but has humps over the board joins where the sleepers haven't been removed yet; and the Western and Mk1s are on P4 track on the old and soon-to-be-replaced TT1).
     
    This is the down Ilfracombe portion of the Devon Belle around 1953. The formation is correct, and all the Pullmans ran on the Devon Belle, but maybe not in the same rake.
     

     

     
    From the locomotive the cars are: Brake 3rd no. 27, Kitchen 3rd no. 61, Kitchen 1st IBIS, Parlour 1st ROSEMARY, Kitchen 3rd no. 31, Kitchen 1st MINERVA, Kitchen 3rd no. 171, Guard 3rd no. 208, Observation no. 13.
     
    Then, moving on about 10 years we have the Wolverhampton-Penzance 'Cornishman' at about the time when the pure chocolate and cream rakes were getting the odd maroon replacement. From the locomotive the formation is BSK-SK-SK-CK-CK-RU-SO-SK-BSK.
     

     

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