coachmann

If I had millions to throw about, I'd put money with the right people and have them build a replica LNWR 'Prince of Wales' and a GER D16. While the Luddites are moaning themselves silly, a lot of people's hearts would be beating faster at the sight of these old machines.

Has anyone ever thought why so few steam locos were purchased in the 1960s? Everything was expensive when set against the disposable income that was available at the time. Remember most worker still used public transport and all the things we take for granted today were beyond the pockets of the majority. The fact that so many diesels and scrapyard steam locos have been saved is down to the vast increase in disposable income. The branchlines to run them on were already in place, secured by previous generations of enthusiasts and visitors. But to many people, a diesel loco might be 50 years old or brandnew, only an enthusiast would know. If a flat wagon carrying a ship's boiler was shunted into a station, the folks would go all dreamy eyed and say "Ah, a steam loco"....

I wonder how many people realize that a good many of those treasured preserved steam locos are virtually replicas. Quite apart from natural maintainance and replacement that took place during a locos working life, those 'Barry' revivals are now't but original mainframes, boiler and wheels, the rest (boiler cladding, cab, pannier tanks, running plate plate etc) having been fabricated during restoration. I remember the shock of seeing City of Wells at Keighley before restoration. Then there is the autotrain fitted Pannier at Llangollen. Both marvelous restorations. You've got to hand it to those lads.

Funny how short memories are. When the steam movement began in the late 1950s early 1960s it was to preserve something that was dissapearing.......Meandering country branchline and steam engines. It's all they, their parents, grandparents and so on had only known for around 130 years. Diesels had all-but taken over on BR and it was unthinkable that people would preserved diesels! Of course the years moved on and younger generations came along with their own ideas on what constitutes preservation. They demanded diesels, which is understandable when it's all they remember. But batting against them are Mr.& Mrs. Joe Punter, who actually bring in the money. How often I've heard it said "we come for a ride behind a steam engine.......We can travel on a diesel anyday on BR". They can't of course but that sums up their knowledge of railways. It doesn't matter anyway. What does matter is the public continue to visit preservation sites and ride the trains. Enthusiasm without money can do nothing. When the chips are down, hard-nosed decisions will favour healthy steam locos. They're the honey pot and scrap into cash will be the thing. I think we are already seeing this. As for old wooden coaches "rotting in sidings", it is easy to join one of the coach groups and even if like me, your own body has seen better days, the annual membership fee and the odd donation will help a lot. Larry

You've answered your own question really. Have you tried modifying the resin buildings from Bachmann and Hornby? Also there are the plaster kits.

Write a short article about RMweb and this thread (have a word with Andy) and submit it together with good photos of your 3 choices to magazines of choice. Give a history of said locos and their workings. BRM and Hornby Magazine, for example, seeing as both are more steam orientated and you need to reach this readership. Also ask the editor if he would run a poll alongside your article. Anything is worth a try when you need 5000 to 9000 sales for your model and the whole thing might develop. LG

When I responded earlier I was critisised for being blunt. I really wanted to inject a touch of reality. If a coach kit is £50.00, people are not going to learn to built one if they won't risk their money b*lloxing it up. But expecting manufacturers/societies/shops to risk their money on a RTR loco is alright? The perception in the trade is the plastic RTR guys want everything on a plate, and this would almost certainly manifest itself if ever a RTR J36 or whatever were produced. First the armchair rivet-counters would weight in, then the people who consider RTR locos should be priced to suit them. It goes without saying Hornby and Bachmann will consider every aspect of a loco before commiting it to the short-list. Realisticallly, a NBR 0-6-0 is no good to someone wanting a Caley 0-6-0 and the market is halved already! A more realistic proposition, maybe, is something that has the wow-factor of the S&DJR 2-8-0....... The Dunalastair V Pickersgill 4-4-0 built between 1916 and 1922 and lasted till 1962. Many people may have seen them in operation on railway videos. I could at least pretent one was working on my layout in Yorkshire heading a railtour (which I would not do with an 0-6-0). For RTR manufacturers it offers Caley blue, LMS red, LMS lined black, BR early and late totems. If it sells well, then the manufacturer will be encouraged to follow it with a Caley tank or good engine. It's a start. I'm not trying to sway things one way or the other. I'm simply looking at it from a risk point of view. Larry

I suspect anyone involved in manufacturing, whether they be big or small, will identify with this sentiment. When it comes to RTR locomotives, I think the best Scotland can hope for are locos that are riding on the back of English prototypes. In other words, if a GCR 'Director' was selling well it would not be too costly to produce a smallish run with reduced boiler mountings to represent the Scottish variant. In similar vein, the LMS Compound could have a batch numbered between 900 and 924 to represent the batch built for Scotland. If/when Bachmann ever replaces the old split-chassis on its J39, it might consider the smaller wheeled J38 Scottish variant. Larry

I must admit i am suprised at some of the critisisms of detail, especially as we are supposed to be modellers..... aren't we? Surely the "fun" in buying ready-to-run is that there is always something left for us to tweak! At 100-smackers it's a snip or have we now reached the stage were we expect absolute perfection from RTR manufacturers. I'de like to see how far some people get with a kit, as it's a safe bet that even the best builders wouldn't achieve the same standard of detail. Larry

Hornby will probably make the most of the current tooling with the box pattern inside cylinder cover. That is from 5013 started in June 1932. The last of the scalloped inside cylinder covers came out in July 1927 with 5012 Berry Pomeroy Castle. (Some of the earlier locos were rebuilt with box pattern covers ...4097, 4088. 4087. 4082, 4076, 4074, 4037). Hope this assists. LG

Standard 2 looks like DJH.

This is going to be one superb layout Dave, as it's looking so good now. I understand the small niggling difficulties of things like point blades not throwing over properly, but fitting individual half chairs on every sleeper is something else, and only for the absolutely dedicated. In an endevour to eliminate Bachmann couplings, I've been messing about on some reverse curve 32" rad track on the workbench, and that's bad enough.

It looks like those splasher tops are black, or is it down to shadow? Some ex-GWR locos in BR lined green loco did have black top splashers and some green, but the official line was green tops. It's down to good colour photos in the end to tell which has and which hasn't. I've always painted them green to be on the safe side.

I smiled when I saw your model of a Bristol SC. You didn't like driving them did you.... Grapevine tells me you are a man of means and leasure now Merfyn. It only seems like yesterday you left Crosville to join BR S&T. No more changing the points in Blaenau then... Larry G.

I'm hoping Bachmann will announce they are doing a BR Standard Mickey Mouse Dave. Nice workmanship on your models as usual and being P4, they look right.

Looking at your pictures, this is the first time I have seen one of these Airfix LMS corridor coaches. I haven't built any postwar 60ft corridor coaches with the extra corridor doors, but if the corridor third is anything to go by, the LMS squeezed the corridor windows to allow more 'meat' either side of the added doors. It would not be a simple conversion doing this....Blimey, it aint simple the conversion you're doing anyway and I take my hat off to you! You said in your intro not to ask why you didn't use comet etched sides, so I won't. Although I will continue to wonder why you didn't.

Looks terrifying Dave but good luck. Glad my take on wiring is minimalist... Larry

Very interesting coaches there Moz. I notice you seem to use a lot of Bill Bedfords etches for GNR coaches. Do you buy the sides seeing as yu mention using 257 parts as well? As usual, Dave Studleys paintwork sets the coaches off nicely. Larry

In March 1996, David Jenkinson gave me a paint panel specially prepared for me by Williamsons. It contains the colours used in the painting of LNWR coaches as follows: Carmine Lake... SP7877 Flake White.......SP7879 Lining Yellow.....SP7930 Note these are not the official names given to the colours by the LNWR company. I have scanned the panel and within the vagaries of scanning, colour fidelity and repro by different PC screens, it might give you some idea... Taking the white line as a base point, you can see how much darker than white the 'flake white' is. I mix the LNWR 'plum' in cellulose using Midland/LMS Lake and black. I mix the 'flake white' from white (not todays brilliant white!), a touch of dark blue (GER), and the merest touch of chrome yellow. The lining yellow I mix from chrome yellow, red and the merest touch of black. Using model paints, the Royal Train plum is pretty close, but eggshell finish paints are the kiss of death on coaches. Hope this assists, Larry G.

I was looking at the NE LCK in Nicks entry.

Thanks Andy. It is certainly a very neat diaramma, small enough to lavish lots of attention on when it comes to fine detail. I wonder sometimes if we (me included) go for 'too big' and never quite finish it. After sterio, your Avatar.....in 3D.

Too much time on your hands Andy............ You don't mention your layout much. Is it this part to a fiddle yard or is there much more and is it still being developed?

Very interesting info there Nick. Was this same 'tub' paint used on ex-Midland coaches transferred to the M&GN and inheritated by the LNER? Interesting to see those proprietory axlebox covers on te GNR van, as also used by the LNWR. Larry