Bob Reid

I have also read the Mk3 detailing on a DEMU UPdate (even though I'm no member!)

 

Good luck with the DBSO, if you're modelling post-1984, the snowplough needs to be fitted.

 

Anyway, excellent work

 

Jules

It's not a snowplough  - it's an obstacle deflector or in the parlance of the time - a humble coo catcher.

The gangways as modelled by Jouef are spot on for use on the prototype Mk3, the HST Mk3's and the 3A's - up to a point They were modelled on the original foam type which turned out to be a mistake - the polyurethane foam used between the body and there faceplate acted like a sponge in the wet and quickly began to deteriorate / fall apart.  A fairly extensive modification was applied to them to replacing the foam with rubber bellows - as seen in all the photographs above and correctly represented by Oxford Rail on the Mk3A's. If you are modelling them accurately, after the spring of 1984 all of the foam gangways had gone, but not before one caused an extensive fire on an E&G set at Cadder the previous year.

[edit] to add - for modelling sake, the foam ones have flat and square section foam from the body to the faceplate, the later one's a nice traditional looking rounded bellows.

6,480 hp capable of just over 161 mph and in that livery as well.  That's still going to take a lot of beating!

Wouldn't most of this stuff me more appropriate on a Hatton's thread?  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/forum/269-hattons/ There's more chance you might get some feedback on some of the items / issues raised?

The Mk2f’s have B4 bogies with the hydraulic dampers.

And there's more to the POT's than meets the eye - see http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/69220-Bachmann-announce-mk2fs/page-40&do=findComment&comment=3366860

Don't have an answer for the POT's but reply to the part off the same question here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/69220-Bachmann-announce-mk2fs/?p=3366860

Afraid not ToF - the 2f's (exc. the DBSO) have ordinary B4's with no bogie hung alternator whereas the POT is correctly equipped with B5's with Alternators hung of the inner headstock on each bogie.  

Very interesting, glad Bachmann seem to be sticking to the more usual version which did not have the light grey above the classification band or with grey window surrounds.

 

Interesting most (or all) the Lima Mk 3s in ScotRail had the version with the light grey on the roof for want of a better expression.

 

Have you a link to where you have or are going to post these "oddities"

 

I assume the photos with the two DBSOs at Waverley in the earlier posted link was as a result of them being swapped.

Swapped out whilst in service...  Wasn't a common occurrence, it was far easier to swap out the maintenance set where possible.

I've not posted anything for the oddities as yet - in and out to hospital so only get a glance at this when I can.  If anyone else wants to start it please do by all means.  It's possibly the light but that second TSO - clearly ex-works has either a very shiny roof or one that is all light grey!

3824 never had disc brakes - at least as far as I know (I suspect the listing of it as such is an oft repeated/copied error) The newest photo I have shows it in 1984 without any form of WSP - had it been fitted with disc brakes, Girling WSP would have been fitted at the same time.

[Edit to add link photo etc.] Here's shot from April 1984 for a start. Downgraded and in use as a TSO (it more often or not replaced the FO on the E&G's) as you can see it has ordinary B4 tread brake bogies without WSP equipment.  I have an earlier shot from 1982 but won't add anything except that the brake block carriers are clearly visible.

https://flic.kr/p/jfre1Y

If anyone else can find a Mk2f (except the fitted DBSO's), any one for that matter but especially 3824 taken between 1985 & 1990 please shout up.  You're looking for the right hand bogie (as viewed from both sides) having WSP equipment on the axlebox covers and an absence of tread brake block carriers. It'll probably be operating in an Edinburgh-Glasgow set or a Glasgow-Aberdeen...

Interesting photos - of note one DBSO has silver/aluminium edged window frames.........  

  

When the MK2 D/E/F's were repainted into ScotRail Exec, do you know or recall if the roofs were also painted Ex Dark Grey or perhaps just left the original dark Bluey/Grey colour as commonly used on B/Grey stock ?

 

TIA

Executive Dark Grey as far as I remember -

The question of roof colour is one I've never been able to resolve entirely. Executive Dark Grey certainly works and looks from memory like the colour used however, the original drawings for both InterCity (more commonly known as Executive), the New INTERCITY (what's more commonly known as Swallow), and ScotRail livery diagrams, all specified the roof colour (at least up to first weld line) as Gloss Black - for example between the classification band and the weld line on a Mk2 or Mk3 roof). One day I'll get to the bottom of these changes....

There is no easy answer - there's plenty of evidence of straying off the official line with experimental and one off liveries. One ScotRail Mk3a and DBSO received a version of the original "Executive HST" livery, with the lower body colour above the classification band and as high as the weld line.  The one DBSO I've found shown here;

Looking for all the world like it's on ECS from St.Rollox to Craigentinny along with an B&G "Inter City ScotRail" Mk3a and dark striped brother....

[Edit] To add for completeness - here's the Mk3a TSO (first in from the loco) with the HST Executive livery add-on;

So as not to clutter the 2f thread, I'll move the ScotRail "oddities" discussion onto another topic.....

You're just showing off now Graham

That'll be this one Dub....  https://topticl.zenfolio.com/p609388398/hbc265852#hbc265845 The hand of Chris Green at work....  Thank goodness it didn't extend to the interiors (unlike the Mk1's and early 2's that did get it - and looked awful)

This other shot of the replacement DBSO shows the interior - still in Beige - https://topticl.zenfolio.com/p609388398/hbc265852#hbc265852

(for some odd reason I can't get the second URL to link to the photo so it'll be a case of copy and paste into the browser bar....)

Tip No.3  (from a question asked in another topic) about the two different blanking plugs supplied with the DCC versions...

As they come from Bachmann, the 2F’s are provided with two blanking plugs¹ to fit to the holes in the body ends where the tail lamp would be.  One of them has a hook, and one hasn’t.

The only difference is that the one with the (un-prototypical) hook is provided to make it easy to pull the plug back out in the event that you want to fit the tail lamp.  The other plug does not have the hook but just a representation of the real lamp bracket. 

According to the instructions it could be difficult to get the plain (non-hooked) plug back out once installed i.e. making it difficult to later remove and fit a tail lamp.

If you are not fitting the tail lamp to the vehicle the best plan would be to fit the plain (non-hooked) one to the end with the roof cover, and the hooked one to the opposite i.e. non-roof cover end.

As they come from the factory the DCC models have the non-roof cover end designated as the (rear) trailing end so that end is the one you might at some point put a tail lamp on, putting the hooked one there will make it easy to remove the plug and fit the lamp.

This only applies where you've left the DCC allocation of the front and rear of the vehicle as it comes from the factory -   If you've altered that via CV29, then you will need to alter the position of the "rear" hooked plate to suit.

¹ That is according to the instructions provided however the FO came with four plugs - two hooked and two not -  they are tiny with a capital 'T' and are therefore very attractive to the carpet magnet, so spares are handy.

It's not Gangway End Covers Tim, these are the tiny blanking plugs that are provided by Bachmann for use when the tail lamps are not in use to cover the hole where the tail lamps would fit.

LU_Fan - both plates are interchangeable.  The only difference is that one has an (un-prototypical) hook to make it easy to pull it back out to fit the tail lamp - the other does not and according to the instructions could be difficult to get back out once installed.  My advice (if you are not fitting the tail lamp) is to fit the plain one to the end with the roof cover, and the hooked one to the opposite i.e. non-roof cover end end.  The reason for this is that as they come from the factory the DCC models have the non-roof cover end designated as the (rear) trailing end so if this is the end you might put a lamp on, putting the hooked one there will make it easy to remove the plug and fit.  

This only applies where you've left the DCC allocation of the front and rear of the vehicle as it comes from the factory.  If you've altered that via CV29, then you will need to alter the position of the "rear" hooked plate to suit.

It should be relatively easy Ken.  

Tip No.2 - I used eight (force of habit from past experience) thin pieces of plasticard slipped between the body and underframe moulding - they need to be inserted though where the underframe clips onto the glazing moulding.  There are four clips on each side - two just inboard of the door edges at each corner, and another two between them equally spaced between the outer two.  Once these are freed, the underframe moulding should pull cleanly up from the body - if they are the DCC versions, watch out for the cable linking the two mouldings.

Red arrows - are where the body clips are (and repeated along the other side), and the blue arrow shows the connector for the feed from the bogies to the DCC board on the roof.

There are brown underframes on the Blue & Grey stock (for pre-1978). The preserved RFB and the DBSO are black (post 1978) as are the Executive, Swallow and ScotRail liveries should all be black.

Bob.

{Edit to add photo]

Tip No.1 - All of the Bachmann 2f's are fitted with removable buffers.  As they come (and like other Bachmann Mk1's and 2's) they are modelled in the short (retracted) position as would be used between vehicles with auto couplers / Pullman type gangways in use. 

In the small accessory pack are two additional buffer heads - these are not "spares" as such, but have longer stems to represent buffers in the long (extended) position with a representation of the buffer saddle as used for example, on the furthest end of the first and last vehicles in a rake.

The long buffer heads don't have to be fitted - the coaches will couple without them being installed but are handy if you run fixed rakes for a slightly more prototypical look.  

In the case of the DBSO, they come as the prototype ran in service, with one end (the cab) having them in the long position, and the other in the short position so no additional heads are provided.

The buffer head on the left are those fitted by default, the (short) retracted ones, and on the right, the replacement (long) extended one - the short heads can be fitted any way round however the long ones have a definite side with a stem that looks thicker when viewed from above to represent the fitted saddle casting - they should be fitted with the thicker side up.  (sadly only carriage nutters would spot that one)!

Nah, unfortunately Phil, they were only fitted post 1963...  Believe me when they go off at 3 in the morning they don't half spoil your nightshift

No, its the one that blasts out "This train is being robbed by bandits - this train is being robbed by bandits - this train is being robbed by bandits - this train is being robbed by bandits - ad.inf. - and you have to take it to your local Royal Mail to find someone who can reset the DCC alarm (CV 999)....

This months Model Rail has them reviewed in the same magazine - in a passing comparison the 2f won (of course these are very subjective reviews where everything scores 95/100 or thereabouts - and your mileage may vary)! The Murphy's Air Con Mk2's however would need a significant amount of re-tooling to look anything like a BR Mk2d e or f....

Bob

More than likely 'T' cut would take off rather more than the yellow stripe if you tried to remove it entirely.  I'd gently feather the edge of the yellow stripe where it meets the black with some fine (1000 grade +) wet & dry paper bit only if necessary leaving it in place , mask it off (leaving the yellow stripe and the roof up to the first rib), then spray with Halfords Matt Black, if you don't already have the paint and an airbrush - I Say Matt because it isn't! it turns out almost satin and is a good match for the model...

Thanks Gibbo. Coincidentally, back in the day, I was doing the annual exams on ScR based private coaching stock for registration for mainline running - at least whist I still worked for the DM&EE.

To expand on what I was saying earlier...

The "nominal" buffer height for Mk1 & Mk2 stock (on straight and level track) is 3'-5 1/2" Centre of the buffer to Rail Level.  This dimension, following overhaul had a tolerance for setting of +1/2" i.e. 3-6" Maximum.  This was set on straight and level track at tare weight - i.e. without passengers, but with full water tanks.

Between overhauls there was a monthly exam requirement at depots to ensure that they remained or were maintained within 3’-5 1/4” and 3’-6” I.e. -1/4”/+1/2” irrespective of wear or the wheel/tyre dimensions, again on a reasonably straight and level track.  This tolerance was positively essential with stock fitted with Pullman type gangways to keep the gangway tread plates level between adjacent vehicles (or at least within 3/4” of each other).

the overall dimensions kindly given by Pint of Adnams are based on the nominal ex-works buffer height of 3'-5 1/2" (1054mm) so given the accepted tolerance the overall height (to the top of the roof panels) of 12'-4 1/2"  could vary between 12’-4 1/4” and 12’-5” - at 4mm scale and in metric, anything between 49.4mm and 49.6mm is quite spot on.

Clearly the state of the track, dynamic movement and loading  of the vehicles varied these heights in traffic - especially when running.

Gibbo, is this some kind of new tolerance + or - 1 1/2" on the buffer height?  The "nominal" height of 3'-5 1/2 has Long been a standard on for example Mk1 & Mk2 stock and set at tare weight.

[edit to add] Are these from a preservation standard? The reason I ask is there's a few discrepancies with the sizing or are you mixing up loco's and rolling stock and I'm interested to know to what standard these are taken from.

Apart from the DBSO Mk2f which is only available in DCC form.

You've got me there ToF - I was describing the DCC version?

What's the difference between the Mk2F DCC and the Mk2F, apart from the price.

 

Mike

Two PCB's - One in the roof (for the integral DCC circuit inc. the SMLED's for the lighting) and one under the interior moulding for the power feeds from each bogie and the On/Off/Flash tail lamp switch.  The top PCB is also held in by mouldings / light guides at each end for the tail lamps.