Pennine MC

The oddest conversion though would of been, the plan to convert the first 38 class 21's to a single cab loco, D6130 entered NBL at Queens Park in 1962 for assessment, thankfully NBL wound up that year, otherwise we could of seen some strange looking cl20's

Didnt one Mr Pisczcek once have the idea to do one of those

Were they numbered DXX or just XX without the "D"? If the latter, then I'm happy with D14.

At that date (three months before the end of steam), it would still have the 'D' (and I can make out the serifs in the enlargement - does anybody agree?). The '1', being a narrow character, would be relatively squeezed up between that and the '4', but has evidently been lost somewhere in the process. It's certainly not D4 for obvious reasons, and as I said before, D24 wouldnt have had nose doors, nor would any higher numbered splitboxes like D84 or D94 (and D84 was named so is definitely out)

Anybody else any thoughts?

It was taken on 12 June 1968 - I have the platform ticket to prove it -

Ha, all that proves is you were there on that day (in fact not even that)

I never as a rule did I take loco numbers but have a look at the enlargement and see if you think it's D14.

 

... over to you experts.

I dont see why it wouldnt be, Bruce - the second digit does look like '4' and very, very few splitbox Peaks actually had doors in the nose so it wont be a higher number. Also D14 would have been a Holbeck loco, so very likely to be on the route

Reference to Brush Vet's post - and pic - on the previous page of this thread should also settle this

aren't pilots also for running round duties (e.g.) a train pulls into a platform, stopping the engine at the buffer, people get on and off, the pilot pulls the carraige back off the point (because engines aren't allowed to shunt carraiges with passengers inside), now the point is clear the engine can go off through the relaese road to the MPD for refueling and the pilot returns to t's place

Dont think you've quite thought this one through, matey - if the train engine isnt allowed to shunt with passengers on board, why does that not apply to the pilot as well? I'm also a tad bemused as to why folk would get *onto* a train when its loco was going for refuelling...

Thank you. I had guessed at that but the use of the word "Pilot" suggested other things as well.

It's maybe stating the obvious but you could just as easily talk of a yard pilot for moving wagons, a shed pilot for moving dead locos and those wagons which found their way into such places, or a carriage pilot which would be tasked specifically with duties in, to and from carriage sidings. It's an intriguing word, pilot, as well as the above it can also mean (as others have stated) either an assisting engine or a standby loco to cover for failures. I think it has also been used in the connection of a light engine running ahead of a Royal train

Gordon S. posted a photo of the Liverpool Street pilot on here recently (it was beautiful) - 'course I can't find it now! It was replaced by an 08 in GER colours, I recall, which look a little odd - but cool too.

 

The class 08 pilot painted GER Blue was 08 833. It wasn't the only 08 to perform such duties, for example I noted 08 541 and 957 at other times.

Before that there was 08531, which in the late 70s was painted what was effectively a smart version of green-with-TOPS (it was roughly contemporary with 40106)

To round out the Liverpool St info, 20s were also briefly used c1969; without checking dates, they were probably direct replacements for the 15s

After looking at the model on display at Warley I was thinking of getting one, chopping the body up and inserting various additions, changing the bogies and converting it to a Class 37!

Well that's an original slant on the 'we soooo need another model of the 37' debate

EDIT: Scrub that, they don't work either but seraching Youtube for "Hattons Class 28" will do it.

 

I am a luddite, so the above is not a link but just looks like one.

I am a nice bloke, so when I say that's useless, it only looks like an insult

It looks like something the school groundsman would get out if it had been raining all week and there was an important match on Saturday...

Doesnt look a bit like a finger

 

The other contributors to this thread are going to have a hard time topping that video.

Not sure if it's a good idea to see this thread as something competitive, shouldnt we just accept stuff for what it is...

Both lovely shots

Agreed, the garden shot is particularly atmospheric IMO

Once uncoupled she runs into the loop prior to backing into the cattle dock to collect one solitary milk tank. The tank is a modified Dapol model and is heavily weathered, the real things were filthy.

 

Geoff, I dont say this lightly but that milk tanker is probably one of the most convincingly weathered freight vehicles I've ever seen - it certainly belies its origins and proves that overall appearance and colouration are just as (or more) important than absolute fidelity to prototype

Chard - is this loco identifiable ?

 

A single row namer with no crest, fitted with a modified one piece box, and a date.

 

Sadly I'm no expert on the big cromptons, but there are some about.

 

I'm not stepping up to the E-mark, but I'd put a modest bet on Lytham St Annes (D60) - fits the bill and was one of the infamous Holbeck trio of namers (with Royal Tank Regiment and Honourable Artillery Company), and thus a WR regular

Edit - she's also dual braked, quite an early example. If only I could be bothered to check that D&EG directory

... 18000 ... Hauling a rake of Hawksworths. Its a black and white photo but the coaches are definetly inether Choc n Cream or Blood and Custard.

Must be the blue and grey ones then. Has the loco got double arrows?

I'm tempted to see what can be done using the gloss finish as a basis.

Shaving?

If anyone has BR fleet survey No4 by Brian Haresnape it's in there, this as far as I remember references 31's being trialled in Scotland, and also there was one or two super charged and additionally cooled versions which were in effect type 3 & type 4 class 31's (up to 2000hp AFAIR).

 

Next time I get the chance I'll see if I can dig the book out when I'm next at my parents, someone who may have the book to hand may be able to confirm my understanding.

 

I'll now disappear as I've thrown in the bomb about type 4 class 31's in Scotland.............and come back later and see the results!

 

Smart move Mike, this is how myths arise The two things are not remotely connected I'm afraid, apart from concerning the same class of loco - the Haresnape book does have a pic of a Pilot Scheme loco at Fort Will, I know that without looking, it's D5511 IIRC - but the uprated machines (1600hp/2000hp) were a later batch and used solely on the ER, notably on the Sheffield Pullman workings which were a regular use for new or experimental types

Albert ...also said that the Golden Ochre Class 31 was trialled on the West Highland line. Now I've never heard of this before but Albert is an old railwayman and can actually give you the numbers of the locos that were used.

I would doubt that, very much; with no disrespect to Albert, even old railwaymen can be mistaken. A Pilot Scheme Brush 2 was trialled on the WHL and Far North, there are published photos of it - just as the BTH that was trialled was also a Pilot scheme loco - but D5579 was a member of the production batch and would have been delivered long after any decisions were taken. It's also likely that a loco with an experimental livery would have been kept on its home turf, in order to monitor results.

. But I do have his note that went along with his photo: "Shankend, 20 Feb 1965 1.54pm Millerhill to Carlisle" so it was going south without a shadow of doubt.

 

Hope that's of some use/interest.

Well, the date would fit (ish) with the shunter transfers to the LMR works, which I think were April '65

On the subject of small shunters being towed over the Waverley Route ...

 

Ah, could be Hunslets I've seen before. Do you have others in that sequence, or similar? Harris records about 10 being transferred from NER sheds to Haymarket 4.67

Pretty sure the LM got some of those later style D27xx Dave - Crewe and Wolverton ring a bell, possibly as works shunters. Dont have time to check Harris ATM, but will later.

D2722/41/42-44 at Crewe and D2726/32/33 at Wolverton, from 1965, unless I've missed any. Some also went for scrap at Ickles in S Yorks during 1967, the one pictured could be one of those

Sorry as ever for the OT, as with DMUs I find this aspect of shunter distribution fascinating, and something of an unexplored dimension in modelling - a 1960s layout could in some cases be very closely defined by its selection of shunters

I'm not aware of any NBLs south of the border 'Chard although I'm open to the possibility.

 

Pretty sure the LM got some of those later style D27xx Dave - Crewe and Wolverton ring a bell, possibly as works shunters. Dont have time to check Harris ATM, but will later.

Aren't there some pics elsewhere on the 'Net with one or more of those shunters in the consist of a Waverley freight? - a predominantly B/W site comes to mind?

BTW the LM also had the larger D29xx NBLs, and Goole had some of the earliest D27xx, though that's obviously not the issue here

At long last I am pleased to say the Waverley thread has its very own troll:

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...=item2a0af80e7d

Class

 

Going back to Richard / 47 401's post (#50) regarding the first fitting of ETH equipment.... I've just found two early b&w shots of D9007 with the jumpers fitted.... the first one is by Norman Preedy (Book of The Deltics, small softback published by Peter Watts in 1978) and shows it at Newcastle in green / full yellow ends on 10/9/67, the second is by John Cooper-Smith (Deltic Pictorial published by Jahn Vaughans Railway Pictorial Publications c1977), showing Pinza at Peterborough on 18/7/69 in blue / full yellow ends with the D prefix still intact.

Thanks Nidge, that was one of those things that was nagging away at me cos I thought some had been done quite early. Next time I haul myself up to the study I'll see what Mr Webb has to say

Found another unusual one in the Norman Preedy book, namely 9009 Aycidon at KX on 15/5/73 in blue with domino headcodes, a full three years before most other classes had them. IIRC there was one other Deltic so treated in 1973, can't recall which one though!

 

I definitely remember No '9 being done in '73, I recall seeing it at Donny. Not sure about any others though

Distant drums

 

I never built one of the Mopoks, but i remember the kits, ... If memory serves, the floor was a strip of wood, ...

It was, I still have one or two tucked away

...). I just can't understand why Hornby persist in pricing the limited range of Staniers higher than the better detailed Maunsells and Hawksworths, both of which are available in greater variety.

Only my own impression, but I suspect it's little more than face saving; if they dropped the price after all the adverse comment (which has come up once or twice before on here, believe it or not), it might look like an admission they got it wrong to start with

Craig - stop it, please

Is it lazy, rude or selfish to ask for help?

 

Not in itself Oz, but it's usualIy easier to help folk who are prepared to help themselves; to provide specific knowledge to build on their own groundwork. I see questions every day on here where the OP hasnt even done the most basic Googling; at the time, I thought this was quite a spectacular example

Perhaps I'm unintentionally hijacking the Hawksworth coach thread here. Please let me know if this is a worthy question for the modelling musings page.

If you are (hijacking), you're no worse than me. But yes, it might make a good discussion, we havent had a good 'introversive' for a while

While reading up about prototype DMUs in anticipation of getting my hands on a Craven I came across a reference to three Hawksworth coaches being painted dark DMU green and used to strengthen sets. That would be an interesting variant.

As has been mentioned on here in one of the previous incarnations of the site, a number of Hawksworth coaches (corridor 2nds?) were retained until the back end of the 1960s, as they they had wider compartment doors, and so could be used to stow refreshment trolleys. At least one made it into blue and grey, and was photographed as the lead vehicle in the Cornish Riviera in 1968 or 1969- the photo's in 'Heyday of the Warships', IIRC.

Not as long ago as that, IIRC both are mentioned in one or both of these:

My link, My link

I was merely responding to 7013's request.

Noted

If one is serious about railway modelling it stands to sence one should study photographs of real trains in ones chosen area and period.

Oh absolutely; nobody despairs more than me when folk think the Internet will provide all the answers, rather than doing some basic and enjoyable research. Thing is, if people keep providing answers, they'll just keep asking