Penrhos1920

Some of you may well have noticed that I haven't been myself over the last year or more.  It's been 9 months since I've contributed to RMWeb and almost as long since I've lifted a modelling tool.  Except for the enforced modelling when the P4 Toerag turned up recently.  The crisis started with a night out with my work colleagues.  It was a very enjoyable evening.  So much so I didn't get out of bed the next day until after lunch, all because I have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome which means I have little energy.   I missed seeing the Vulcan at Sunderland and that was that.  I then realized that my dreams, including building a exhibition P4 model of Penrhos junctions, were not going to happen.

In that time a lot has happened: I've read, and mostly forgotten, the whole of Gordon's Eastwood Town topic, been made redundant, can't find a job, started catching up with countless DIY jobs, visited the RVI numerous times with my daughter and been thinking how can I make Penrhos Junctions a reality.  The big change that I think will make the difference is It's no longer going to be P4.  It's going to be EM-2, or 4SF if you must.  Or almost OO, but not quite.  That way I will spend only a fraction of the time making rolling stock as there is no need for suspension, compensation or billiard table track.  I reckon that I can build 5 EM-2 wagons in the time I would build one P4 wagon.

And this is where I need your help. I've been Temploting Penrhos and I need some folk to check over the plans before I cut any wood and commit to the final design.  There is no way that I want to get half way through the build only to find that the gradients won't work or I can't get to some points or whatever else and that I need to start again.  My layout of Penrhos Junctions is based upon the group of junctions as few miles west of Caerphilly set in 1920.  The map below shows the Pontypridd, Caerphilly & Newport Rly in brown, the Rhymney Rly in green and the Barry Rly uncoloured.  In addition to these three companies the GWR also ran passenger trains trains along the PC&N.  The main traffic was black gold.

The PC&N and Barry rlys are more or less level, except the Barry line running over the viaduct which descends to join the Barry.  The Rhymney line descends when it passes under the viaduct at 1 in 80 and then 1 in 47.  This is a Templot of how I intend to model the scenic area:

The fiddle yard is under the layout and all tracks spiral down to it.  The maximum off-scene gradient is 1 in 100.  Minimum radius is 36".

g1r__scenic_2016_05_25_1821_28.boxg1r__fy_entrances_2016_05_25_1825_31.boxg1r__lower_level_2016_05_28_1952_54.box

On a completely different topic.  I have realized how fortunate I was not have to drive a steam train down the Rhondda valley.  1 in 80 with just six brake blocks on the loco and 4 more on the guards van to stop 40 wagons each weighing 15 tons ending up in the Taff at Pontypridd.  Beats the latest roller coaster any day.

Cheers Penrhos!

Quick question on the G19, do I take it that would be a 6 wheeled clerestory 3rd? If so, how many compartments would it have? That could be a relatively 'easy' test hack for me.

Sorry G19 was not a clerestory - can't even read my own website.

As MikeOxon has pointed out saloons have large windows, but I'm sure you can join a pair of compartment windows and a door to make the big window. I fancy making a G41 this way together with a ratio chassis kit.

  

 

I had a fun evening last night perusing that site. I've found a couple of examples of 6 wheel clerestories, but no 4 wheeled examples yet

Glad you've enjoyed it.  A couple of people have tried to persuade me to do something on bogie clerestories.  I'm sorely tempted.  You can what this space, but you might die waiting!!

Yep, there were very few 4 wheel clerestories on the GWR.  Try here:

http://penrhos.me.uk/Mdiags.shtml#G39

G16, G17, G19 & G38 to G40

What are the best CV settings for jerk free running at low speed with the Lenz Standard+ decoder?

Next!

 

the Hornby 4 wheeled coach. I already know it's not based on anything 'real', but how close is it to something GWR from 1900?

Have a look here: http://www.penrhos.me.uk/ShortCoachesIntro.shtml

When will the DCC ones be out?

Have you seen the Dragon Models Cambrian range:http://www.dragonmodelswales.co.uk/price.php

Regarding your wagon springing. Do you have a suspension point between the axle and buffer beam? Can't see one on the photo. Then you'll have a continuous springy beam which should work well.

Here is the list of GW Crocodiles as of 1920 and which ones I hope to model:

I’ve going to include references so that folk can find the photos and drawings I’ve used. So for the C2 made above there is a good series of photos in ‘Freight Wagons and Loads in service on the GWR and BR(W)’ for short FW fig.240 onwards. The drawing is in GW Wagons Torrett et al (GWW) fig.73.

Now if you model post 1926 and just want to improve your Mainline of Bachmann crocodile you only need to change the bogies and possibly replace the buffers. The photo for this is in ‘GW Wagons Appendix’ for short GWA fig.36

It’s best to see Mr Cambrian at an exhibition as you need to buy the C68 BR Plate Bogie kit but have him change the axleboxes for the round top ones from the C73 GWR Plate Bogie kit. This results in a bogie with top and middle re-enforcing angles, no access holes, a single bolster spring and round top axleboxes. Unfortunately the round top axlesboxes are a little over size but there is nothing that can be done about this. You can also upgrade the buffers by replacing them with white metal buffers from ABS/FourMost F334.

I need a train of GWR Crocodiles (well wagons) to represent the trains that occasionally ran from the Brown, Lenox & Co works at Pontypridd to Newport docks carrying maritime buoys. Photos of a similar train show it was formed predominantly of one design, C11. But to make it a bit more interesting I’m going to use a mixture of designs.

The only model or kit of a GWR Crocodile is of the short heavyweight C23 design that was introduced in 1926.

Considering it was brought out over 30 years ago by Mainline it is a very good model. There are two areas where the model deviates from the prototype; the bogies and the inside of the main I-beams. The bogies were taken from the earlier Mainline model of the bogie bolster Macaw B wagon. They are an easy fix using Cambrian bogies as a replacement. The I-beams are a compromise to the injection moulding process and have been made as C-beams. There is nothing that can be done other than use the Pocket Money kit that is occasionally available.

By 1920 GWR Crocodiles were divided into 3 groups; short 4 wheel designs that are of no interest here, type V crocodiles that had a flat plate joining the main well I-beams to the platforms above the bogies and type VI crocodiles that had a composite I-beam as per the Mainline model.

Fortunately for me the C23 design was very similar to the earlier C2 design introduced somewhere between 1915 and 1926. The first type VI C2 was introduced in 1915. It was 5ft shorter in the well than the Mainline model. Sometime between 1915 and 1926 it was rebuilt and the well lengthened by 5ft. The GWR Wagons ‘bible’ says 1915 to 1936 for the conversions, but I have a 1926 copy of the GWR’s own Special Wagons book which shows 2 off C2 at the longer length. So I’ve assumed that one was converted before 1920, my chosen year.

The conversion for the model to C2 requires cutting Vs in the end platforms, changing the buffers to the earlier coach like pattern and a bit of work on the bogies.

The first job is to remove the screw that holds the metal weight to the end platform. The weight then prises out of the plastic platform and then the bogie can be removed from the weight. The V is not actually a V.

It’s about 1mm in from the 2 diagonal lines of rivets, 2mm from the central boss and 2mm from the edge of the platform. Once marked out it, use a 2-3mm drill to drill a line of holes inside the V, join the holes with a slitting disc and then finish with a file. The weight then needs to be temporarily replaced so the V can be marked. It is then given the same treatment.

The boss for the fixing screw needs to be removed but do not remove the bogie boss.

The axleboxes on the bogies need to be replaced with round top axleboxes. These are available from Cambrian as part of their various GWR / BR bogies. The holes in the side need to be filled in with filler.

Try again with the photo.

Guess who's helping with the scanning?

Don't tell him what he's doing wrong.....

Guess who is helping with the scanning.

I use Vallejo Airbrush Thinner, 71.161 which comes in 200ml bottles. "Dilutes color without loss of adhesion, resistance or consistency."

I prefer to use Model Air colours where available as I've found that some Model Color paints don't airbrush very well.  A classic example was copper which came out gold and then a big blob of copper when I stopped spraying.

S**s law says no two are the same!!!

LH 9' loose heal 1:6.2

RH 15' loose heal 1:8.25

RH 9' loose heal 1:5.75

RH 9' loose heal 1:4.25

LH 9' loose heal 1:6

Enjoy.

me thinks that the second one ought to be a bit tighter.

I recieved that email maybe 9 months ago and have had to pay the extra.

So how much extra is the 'Seriously Brilliant'?  Ddwyieithog?

Neal,I see no real reason why a kickstart project won't succeed. It will take a lot of hard work. If you are lucky there will be drawings that you can scan and send off the China. Or maybe a preserved example but what will be original and what recent changes?

If you do pick up the batton and the run with it, follow the poll leads, I'll support you, but first you need to speak to someone like Dave JM

Would the Comet replacement sides be easier?  http://www.cometmodels.co.uk/modules/viewcatpic.php/8/1103

Will they be easy to convert to P4?   I can't resist a lovely little tank like this even if now got to Caerphilly works.

Alas no Bachmann 59 this year...

 

... I thought it was a racing certainty

Ah but DJ Models have just announced a 59: 59002 ‘Yeoman Enterprise’ in Foster Yeoman Livery,  59103 ‘Village of Mells’ in ARC Mustard and Grey livery, 59204 ‘Vale of Glamorgan’  National Power Livery, 50206 ‘John F. Yeoman’ DBSchenker Livery.

Why did a couple of 59s transfer to operating the Llanwern iron ore trains in July 1998?  Does anyone have a complete list?  So far I can only find evidence of 59004, 59103 & 59104 on the Llanwern trains.

Com'on Charlie post a piccy and get us all drooling

Are you planning the earlier livery:

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2659/4005144560_e7c9a22cf2_z.jpg?zz=1

Hi Sub39H,

 

Oh yes, I see myself branching into anything I can see a market for, whether that be diesel or electric or turn burning ;-)

I'd like to do wagons and am working on some really interesting deals regarding bringing some 'aquatic ones' to market.

However, wagon costs per tool are quite extreme in comparison to a nice simple 0-6-0 or similar.

 

Cheers

Dave

How do you gauge the market and determine whether something is going to be profitable? 

Does that mean a small loco is more profitable than a wagon?  That surprises me.  I'd have thought that a wagon had less parts and would sell in much bigger volumes.

 

West Riding stonework in 1950s towns was filthy, the golden colour of the stone being almost totally obscured by black soot, except at the mortar courses, where the softer mortar crumbled away, so I think it's fairly hard do emulate. Modern buildings do not show the same sorts of weathering. Certainly it took me a long time to come up with a simple, good-looking (to me!) method. Earlier attempts veered too much on the brown side - that soot really was BLACK!*

 

* As an aside, did you know that No 10 Downing Street is made from yellow London brick but it was so dirty with air-born soot that they disguised it by painting it all black. Not a lot of people know that!

They spent most of the 1980s trying to clean West riding stone.

When was No10 Downing St painted black.  I've seen some colour film, WWII I think, showing it yellow.

Great pictures.  What are the buffers on the conflat?  Are they different at each end?