Glorious NSE

I was watching a movie a couple of nights ago where some kids were evacuated from London during WW1 via the Isle of man steam railway...

Possibly - although keeping it simple 'Nationalised TOC' could still continue leasing the same stock at presumably the same (or maybe even better, bulk discounts, usage directly guaranteed by govt?) rates.

NR and 'Nationalised TOC' would have to at least be separate financially for legal reasons, but even then it doesn't renationalise 'the railways', you still have open access passenger, freight and charter operators running around for example, protected by law...

But that wouldn't renationalise "the railways", it would just renationalise the passenger train operations.

That's a bit of a generalisation, still being simplistic here but some operators don't get public money, do make a profit and they pay portions of their profit back to the public purse. Some do get publicly funded if they cannot be funded on a for-profit basis... But either way (assuming it's deemed a neccesary thing to keep running such services) then the government needs to pay somebody to do that bit, and that goes the same whether that is done effectively as an arm of the government (BR) or contracting somebody external to run it (as now). The point of paying the money out should be to get the public service that is deemed neccesary, and the arguments over whether you'll get a better/more efficient result from paying a capitalist pig free market company or running a horribly bloated and inefficient government department will no doubt be the same for any government enterprise from now until forever. Not sure anyone would dare to go quite that far...

I think that's very arguable Chris...

Just for the sake of completeness I picked the issue up from the same source as you and hadn't noticed it until then, so no credit due here I just thought it was worth mentioning on a thread that DapolDave was hopefully following - as you rightly say with the large blue numbers you'd not be able to bury them under grime sufficiently to fudge it and I don't know of any decals you could use to change them, so if it can be caught before they go into production so much the better.

Not quite sure what you mean by that. At present you can book with a couple of clicks (or at any ticket office) a ticket from anywhere to anywhere involving any TOC? Why? It's called globalisation and it's all over, so why is it mad when it comes to railways? First Group also run American school buses, Freightliner work in Poland and Australia....not madness, just business.

Yes that could be a good upgrade (although the low sun on that shot is probably highlighting more than you would otherwise see) - I don't know for sure but the big connectors suggest they are for power.

I'd say it looks about right to my eye, the real things seem to have the bogies a fair way inboard as well:

Hi Dave, don't know whether it's something that's been caught (or can be?) for the production run but I think your numbering is out. The real wagon 501316 is an outer with generator the same as 501315, not an inner as your second image shows. Number ranges for the yellow ones are: 501301-320 are all outers with generators (MRA-D) 501321-340 are all outers without generators (MRA-E) 501341-400 are the inners (MRA-F) (For completeness the first 5 sets were transferred to GBRf/Metronet in 2006, these are numerically the lowest 5 MRA-D/MRA-E and the lowest 15 MRA-F) The wagons look really good otherwise.

It makes a slightly better argument than 'the North' - but I still disagree, Northern has pretty much the same issues as much of the rest of what was 'Regional Railways'. I'd still say it's no different to what has happened to the 'Wessex' part of FGW, or to the local bits of EMT, or Arriva's routes in the valleys... Sorry I disagree...they are doing largely what they were built for 25 years ago...just as such units (and even older ones!) are doing everywhere else in the country...nowhere else (with the exception only now of Birmingham getting 172s,) has there been a wholesale replacement of 14x/15x fleets, so why is 'the North' up in arms that they are being short changed? You have the exact same issues as various other parts of the country. Sorry that's rubbish, it does plenty of legs where there must be a decent rush hour flow of people...according to their route map that includes Manchester-Huddersfield which you've just said was a problem on Pacers...so that route does have brand new trains then? And don't forget those units displaced by the 185s - the 158s, many of which are now moving......London commuters for SWT!!! So the North gets new units and London gets their 15x cast-offs. They should complain... Maybe - one option seems to be that an expanded London Midland 350 fleet will cover the longer distance moves, and refurbished class 319s for local traffic - yes they will be 'cast off's - but the other line getting them is the other outpost of 'the North' the Great Western Main Line, so I still don't see that you're being treated differently!! If you discount all the new trains that 'the North' has then it has no new trains. Similarly if you discount all the new trains London has then London has had no new trains either... 'The North' has had vastly more new trains than the South West either way...I don't disagree with the argument that Pacers should be replaced either (and it's arguably that enough new stock has been built for them to have been had demand stayed static, it's just the increase in demand means you're better off standing on a Pacer than left on the platform...) How you fund replacing them is a big issue though. But it's the same issue for Arriva Trains Wales, and First Great Western...

Sorry guys - fundamentally how is it any different to South Wales, or the West country, or dieselised bits of East Anglia, or the East Midlands....?

Interestingly McNulty envisages commuters paying less and other travellers paying more...

They are still extra carriages, and it'll still cost more to have more capacity, so, yes, it is investment. And the vast majority of trains running in the North at the moment are types built new to do exactly what they are doing, they may have moved around a bit but 'The North always has everybody's cast-off trains' meme is a long way from the truth! The North has had entire classes of brand new DMU and EMU allocated to it since privatisation for example. Add in electrification, capacity addition schemes and there seems to be plenty being spent in the North... 'Investment' doesn't just mean 'shiny new trains'. I can't - I would expect it would be let again fairly quickly as they will need to have somebody in place as part of the decision-making process for the new trains - so First may rebid and may win, but I don't think it will end up government controlled. So you're saying it's bad....? ...and the reason that it's bad is that good things are happenning?

There are similar sentiments coming out already: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14456857 But you'd be a very brave/foolhardy person to take your family out onto the streets and put them in harms way "to be normal" if something is kicking off...

Haha - well it's the obvious next step once you've connected Bristol to New York... There's a few other ones there, Paddington in 1969 had lots of GWR clerestory stock?

I know some have been, but here's a few more. http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/Allinthedetails/DMUs/E79960-Railbus

From the looks of it: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9550930.stm so...you will still be able to watch half the races live, including Monaco, the British GP and the last race of the season....makes you wonder which ones are 'in' and which are 'out' though - is there a plan that the ones half way round the world and at curious (locally!) times aren't live? In which case I can live with that..., if the ones you can't see live are the ones which are usually local time like Spa though i'll be dissapointed... Anyone have a list of what we won't get live?

Awesome. Nicely done Lego class 60 as well.

My guess would be actual product....by which I mean stuff made on the same production lines as the regular products, just not made for Apple...

In their original role they would be to brake and also to protect the rear of a train which is unfitted or partially fitted (which might mean a mixed train of vac and air braked stock) - it would be quite likely for yards to have had brake vans when that kind of thing was common but which then just sat there once the role had gone, so having a couple sat in the corner of the yard is plausible. The more modern use is as a place for a crewmember to ride safely in a propelling move though, which is what I would assume the one in your pic was used for judging by the train (it's not in propelling mode in the shot, but it presumably would be at the opposite end to the loco on one leg of the journey)

Actually the best one was with the previous owner of a local model shop, I tried to buy a certain Peco point and he said "I can't sell you that one, as I won't have one in stock if a customer comes in...." I was speechless...

In Mcdonalds... "Quarter pounder with cheese meal with a chocolate milkshake please" "what drink would you like?" "erm...a chocolate milkshake?"