RandyWales

In many cases,it may be possible to download the sound files direct from http://www.uktrainsim.com

Hi...

Thanks for the update.

There are many libraries there that could unearth something if you are prepared to "rummage"....

However, most sounds from that source are still 'first generation'....things have moved on since.

Randall

Don't be so ready to knock it when some other (excellent and very well respected) modellers enjoy it - there must be something in it!

Why am I so ready to knock it?

Simply because certain exponents of DCC sound who are in a position of responsibility on RMweb have long been all too ready to ridicule and dismiss (low-cost, often superior) alternatives to DCC soundchips made by myself and others.

The last time I questioned a misleading statement, my post was immediately deleted.

I respectfully suggest you research the topic of sound on RMweb if you doubt what I am saying.

With regard to my recent update, I can understand station announcements and platform noise, but CHURCH BELLS and BIRDSONG?...from a speaker onboard a locomotive?!?

regards

Randall

Hi again...

Wow! I've just watched a video of professionally produced DCC Soundchips with 'latest developments'....station announcements, platform noise and BIRDSONG sounds etc that prototypically emanate from the locomotive speaker.

This real added-value development is seriously making me reconsider my quest for cheaper sound.

Randall

They are now looking at doing the Woodhead electrics as well.

An announcement such as this would have been heralded in mainstream 4mm not so long ago....

Is there so much money sloshing around?....

OR....

Are the REAL production costs so low that the profits for 7mm make it foolish not to capitalise?

Randall

For US Operations modellers, doing lots of switching, the motion link is probably essential for maintaining the illiusion.

 

Andy

Hi Andy...

I politely disagree...

It is far easier to synchronise sounds and motion when train movement is slower, as when shunting.

Randall

Hi again...

Just a little note to advise anyone interested in using real sounds on their layout.

The number of high quality train videos on Youtube is accelerating by the day.

 

Many enthusiasts record both Steam and Diesel Gala days and post them on Youtube.

Some are really top notch and recorded in HD.

 

When you play back a video in Youtube, you should have an option (under Settings) to increase the display resolution.

If you can, change the setting to 1080p HD because the quality of audio is correspondingly higher.

Youtube Downloader also has this option.

Randall

To follow on from this previous post of mine...here is another suggestion with regard to obtaining suitable sounds from Youtube....

The phenomenal advances in the quality of Train Simulator graphics has prompted consequential improvements in sound quality.

Increasing numbers of TrainSim enthusiasts have been posting videos of their scenarios on Youtube.

The sound quality of most of these HD videos is good enough for our purposes.

A quick Google search will unearth absolute gems.

Watch out for those whose creator doesn't give a running commentary....

External overhead 'close-proximity shots' of the simulated locos will provide the best sounds...

If you are a TrainSim bod, you will be able to create your own recordings.....

I am using this method to create my own library of sounds for my O gauge fleet.

I use 'SoundByte-to-onboard-Bluetooth-speaker'...much superior sound quality to those of DCC chips...

My objective was to find a cheaper way of equipping my 7mm fleet with sound..I am well on my way.

Youtube Downloader can be used to extract the soundfiles for uploading into Audacity.

I want to emphasise (again) that controlling the trains and the sounds separately is easy.

Watch my DMU video again....you'll hear me pressing the controller buttons as the Class 105 soundtrack accelerates. Enough said?

regards

Randall

I have beem following this with great interest, what sound programme did you use, or shuld I say sound mixer app ?

The program I use to edit sounds for uploading into Soundbyte is the world-reknowned Audacity, which is free (MS Windows). For our purposes, it is fairly straightforward...you load the soundfile, which is displayed as a graphical soundwave. You can set start and endpoints for playback, make adjustments to get it just right. You then save the result as a file, which is then loaded into Soundbyte using iTunes as described in an earlier posting.

The DMU samples in the video were all extracted from a single file that was downloaded free for personal use.

If enough interest were to be expressed on this thread, I'd consider delevoping a series of instructional videos for Youtube.

regards

Randall

Hi...

This 7mm model of a Southern Railway Weedkilling Train came up for sale at the Swansea Railway Modellers Group meeting this evening....

We were keen that a model of this standard went to someone within the club who would appreciate the craftsmanship...and so it did...

Not much is known of the provenance of the model which was bought at an exhibition by one of our members several years ago.

The detail is phenomenal.

The workmen's carriages appear to be modified Slater's

We would very much appreciate any information on the prototype, or indeed the builder...

Randall

Hi all...

Just a quick reminder that Swansea Railway Modellers Group is staging a FREE exhibition next weekend Oct 3rd/4th at the Waterfront Museum in Swansea. Several layouts, traders and demonstrations.

http://srmg.org.uk/2015-show/

Randall

Hi again...

Just a little note to advise anyone interested in using real sounds on their layout.

The number of high quality train videos on Youtube is accelerating by the day.

Many enthusiasts record both Steam and Diesel Gala days and post them on Youtube.

Some are really top notch and recorded in HD.

When you play back a video in Youtube, you should have an option (under Settings) to increase the display resolution.

If you can, change the setting to 1080p HD because the quality of audio is correspondingly higher.

Youtube Downloader also has this option.

Randall

Hi again....

I've been watching videos on Youtube again ..this time looking for HST Intercity 125 Paxman Valenta sounds to use in sync with my new Hornby blue/grey High Speed Train.

I've had a bit of a revelation.

Up until now, I have been transmitting sounds from my iPad (running Soundbyte) to a bluetooth speaker beneath the layout.

(nb on my O Gauge layout I transmit high quality sounds direct to the locos using onboard Bluetooth speakers).

This evening, however, I was searching through Youtube with my iPad on my lap and then synchronising the running of the model on the layout with the real thing in the video.

There was an astounding difference having the high quality REAL sounds playing through the decent quality iPad speaker on my lap

Previously, having the speaker beneath the layout did admittedly take getting used-to.

Tonight, though, having the speaker on my lap, with my viewing position relative to the real train in the video was absolutely astonishing.

With the speaker much closer to me, the sounds reaching my ears genuinely seemed as if they were coming from the Power Cars and carriages running on the layout and not from the iPad in my lap. A combined optical and aural illusion?

Those who appreciate the screaming Paxman Valenta sounds would have smiled as the model slowly accelerated in time with the real thing in the video.

I was able to immerse myself in the soundscape of the real thing, which let me tell you is streets ahead of the sounds from a soundchip.

I am slowly building a full library of sounds that will allow me to view/listen-to many different train consists, with different locomotive types, from various viewing positions on the layout. My sounds are taken from videos on the web, but others are sounds made available for home use by enthusiasts using professional recording techniques.

I use Youtube Downloader to download the sounds. The same product can also create a soundtrack as a seperate file for loading (via iTunes) into Soundbyte (after suitable editing in Audacity of course).

As a caveat, sounds produced as described, would probably only be suitable for the individual operator rather than several people as the source of the sounds are localised because of the nearby positioning of the speaker. Someone standing a few feet away probably wouldn't have the same experience.

If you would like to see examples of REAL train sounds being run very effectively in sync with model trains, then search for Everard Junction on Youtube...The many video tutorials / video blogs each have an introduction that shows model trains running through the layout accompanied by a real soundtrack. Very effective.

When I have more time, I will try and create videos of my own to demostrate how realistic using real sounds actually is on a model railway.

This is a topic that was advocated by the late John Allison of Warley MRC way back when. He was a very inspirational modeller.

Finally, be aware that you have to control the sounds and motion of the trains separately.

Some advocates of DCC sound on RMweb who obviously have different views to me have recently posted comments that the link between sound and motion is vital. This is totally misleading and probably has something to do with vested interests.

After all, when you have invested hundreds in DCC Soundchips, something that is low cost but is more effective must stick in the craw.

Randall

Thanks, searching Black Cat Systems in the App Store took me to the same result as before i.e. Soundbyte Lite @ £29.99 confirming the developer as Black Cat Systems. However going to their BCS website took me to a link back to the App Store and produced an App called Sound Byte Cart Machine App @ £3.99 which is also available in a bundle with three other apps for £7.99 so I'm assuming this is the one you mean?

Sound Byte Cart Machine...that's the one

Randall

Randall,

 

I too, took advice from clickerty-clack, he cost me a b****y fortune in purchasing new sound recording equipment!

 

Initially I used the Miditron controller and PC like clickerty, but eventually moved on. However, Bill's advice was spot on. I now use the Sparkfun sampler which I fit into 5" gauge as built, but I'm also currently engaged in remodelling the PCB to fit into O gauge and possibly larger OO gauge models with an integral DCC chip and inertia controller all combined on one board. I use the Crest-Electronics (Aristo-Craft) Revolution train controller for my 5" gauge stuff. NB: The Crest receiver has inbuilt sound which I switch off for this application.

 

The Sparkfun sampler delivers 16bit/48khz audio through its own onboard amplifier and likewise with your own system Randall, shatters the myth about small speakers not sounding good. (Another myth busted by Bill).

 

I can control 99 locomotives with the Revolution Controller and by changing the mode of acceleration and deceleration and thus changing the sampleset banks for each running profile, I can have different sounds for light engines, under load pulling passenger or freight trains. The difference being I can change those banks of samplesets by use of changing the handsets throttle position or by train type (and not CV values like Zimo ). I also have no drop out issues as the sound is contained and played on the locomotive.

 

Since I am using a sampler rather than a playback device the engine note changes follow the handsets throttle changes immediately and the motion of the locomotive follows the sounds. With 32Gb on-board memory I can store 2048 individual sounds and play them through 14 internal stereo channels mixed down to a stereo audio output.

 

I reckon on paying £100 for 5" gauge loco sound & receiver and about £40 - £45 for the combined O gauge DCC sound version.

 

Controlling DCC decoders by iPhone app is of considerable interest, I have not researched this area at all and would appreciate some tips on any good apps available. More focussed upon controlling the motion and external outputs rather than sound though.

Hi Doddy...

Thanks for replying....very interesting but lots of detail I haven't come across before, so I need time to digest your post and check out your gear....

I am in total agreement with your sentiments about Bill....a really nice, knowledgeable and approachable guy.

He did confide some of his ideas on sound production to me, which I have utilised to improve my samples, but a lot of what he told me went Whoosh over my head... Lucky I have all his emails to refer to when I need clarification.

I must get back in touch with him...

Soundbyte doesn't have motion control of trains, but on the times I've taken my Bluetooth speaker-fitted 7mm stock to my club, nobody picked up on the fact I was controlling the sounds and the locos separately. It is so easy.

Everyone was impressed by the quality of the sounds though.

Randall

I've just found this thread which seems really interesting. I notice that it was said earlier that the oundbyte app was £2.99 in the app store, but when I search for it it comes up as £29.99 for the Lite version. Call me a cheapskate but I would be happy to risk £2.99 by way of an experiment but perhaps not £29.99. Was the price quoted incorrect or am I missing something.

Hi NickWood...

You need to search Black Cat Systems in the App Store....

It would appear that another, but totally different Soundbyte app is also being marketed by someone else....

The price doesn't show when I view the Black Cat Soundbyte as I've already bought the app.

However, it is also available bundled with three other apps for £7.99 from Black Cat Systems, and the other three are individually £2.99 each, so £2.99 for Soundbyte looks correct.

Give it a go....(no involvement other than as a satisfied customer).

Randall

Hi again...

I'm bumping this topic simply because there may be members out there who haven't seen it but are interested in providing sounds for their loco fleet/layout...at a cheaper cost than £100 per loco.

I'm also hoping someone else is inspired to seek out new possibilities...

Randall

I was really impressed by the quality, as most films I've seen of my favourite era have been more or less amateur status using equipment that was contemporary with the time. This is obviously high-end professional, and I've not seen it before, hence my delight.

With regard to copyright, I did actually insert only a link in my post. The site software must do the rest.

Randall

Hi Steve...

Interested?....most definitely....in more than one?...probably.

Randall

Does any one have any way of contacting Holt Model Railways as I have tried using the e-mail address, telephone number and the contact form on their website. The e-mails do not send and the telephone rings out does any one have any suggestions, I am looking for the Mike's Models NBR water crane that they used to produce.

Any information great fully welcomed and received.

Best regards

Steaurt

Holt's have been closed on a Friday for as long as I remember...try phoning again tomorrow.

Randall

Just read through this lot and found it very interesting. Downloaded Soundbyte and had a play. It has many possibilities for me. I have never been that keen on sound fitted locos for a number of reasons. With steam the sound doesn't seem deep enough to me, no doubt a product of small speakers and loco sound in isolation to me is a bit odd. I really like the idea of having ambient sound together with superimposed locos, wheel noise from carriages, wagons etc etc. Driving the loco to the sounds is not difficult and I find more effective given that sound can continue and fade off after the train has reached the fiddle yard rather than abruptly stopping.

Thanks for opening up new possibilities for me.

Roger

It's great to hear that you've given Soundbyte a try, and I'm grateful that you mentioned that it's not difficult to control the sounds separately.

These days, I really feel that there is something fundamental missing if I run my 4mm trains without sound.

It is really amazing running a model train through the layout synchronised with a professionally recorded soundtrack played through stereo speakers.

I have edited some soundtracks especially for the purpose.....build and fade with the doppler shift in between centred on the train passing my viewing position.

Sound decoders? Pah!

Please keep us informed of developments...

Randall

Another quick Soundbyte tip.....

Click the "Setup" menu button at the top of a Rack page and you will see a configuration page for the chosen "rack".

Select the options shown below....

Active buttons will now have a white frame around them and you'll also see a progress bar for the active sound.

(You can see these options in action in the videos)

Randall

Randy, one thing you could help with regarding the App and an iPad.

Do I need to hook up to a Mac to get sound files from iTunes?

I connect my iPad to my Microsoft Windows laptop that has iTunes installed....

Basically, I select Songs Library then File -> Add File to Library, and then File -> Devices -> Sync.

Within SoundByte, I press and hold a button, which opens up the configuration page for that button.

Click on the entry called Music Library which jumps to the iPad Songs app and select the required sound for playback.

If you refer to my earlier post in this thread, you will learn how simple it is to set up functions like Looping, Fading and button colours etc....

Probably the most important function is "Touch fades other Carts"....

Please let us know how you get on.....and if you need any more help, please ask.

Randall

I hope this isn't too boring, if so please say and i will stop.

 

Absolutely not......on both counts!

The images are an inspiration...

I'm at the painting stage of my Easybuild Class 108, and the standard of your mk1's gives me something to aspire to...

Also, the Kirk kits, the GUV, BG and CCT are now on my must buy list!

I really regret not buying the blue Heljan Class 47 when they were on the shelves.

That was about eighteen months before I made the decision to move up to 7mm.

Your City of Truro looks so nice it only serves to reinforce my folly.

Thanks for posting

Randall

Hi again...

To demonstrate that controlling the motion and sounds separately is simple, I've recorded this short demo of my Bachmann Class 105 departing Costleigh New Cut station.

The speakers are beneath the layout

Randall

Hi again....

Soundbyte and Bluetooth Audio Streaming had a recent outing at the Swansea Railway Modellers Group meeting and I think reception was quite positive.

On arrival, I unboxed and railed up my 7mm Heljan Class 37 with the onboard VEHO Bluetooth module and speaker. After a few soundless circuits of the large O gauge test track, I started up the Soundbyte App and observed....

The initial reaction was that someone had a locomotive with sound...Big Deal!

It then began to dawn on some members that I was controlling the sounds from my iPad.

Several came over to watch and ask questions....

Others remained indifferent (but leaned over to check as the Class 37 went by)...

Around the far side, I started up the sounds of a Steam locomotive and watched as the loco passed-by along the front of the test track.... Trigger inquisitive looks...

Finally, I did a run past with the sounds of a Mr Whippy Ice Cream van...trigger laughs all round....

Admittedly, I was surprised by the lower fidelity in the large room compared to the close confines of my loft. In fairness, there were other trains running on the 4mm and 2mm tracks, plus the general hubbub of the clubroom....probably a validation that amplified sounds can increase the annoyance factor at exhibitions....

There were also several signal drop-outs when the loco was on the far side of the tracks, behind a few members who were within the central operating area.

However, several members (especially the younger clan) came over and asked many pertinent questions and I demonstrated how things worked.

I was absolutely chuffed to note that not one person commented on the fact that I was controlling the motion and the sounds separately.

Not a bad debut for 7mm sound that cost less than £15....

regards

Randall